[REQ] An idea to repair the economy

[Lc4Hunter]

Hy together.

As i can see in some Tech-Support posts the economy seems to be still broken - or break after a short time period.

In X3 the economy was build on "Ghostproduction".
The solarplants produced energycells without the need of ressources.
I know this was not very realistic but it worked.

Is there any possibility to make solarplants in Rebirth do the same? Or to create "ghostwares" at the station? What i mean is that a script runs every... 15...30...60minutes and adds a small number of wares to them.

This would have the effect of a slow, but not still standing, economy (based on lies and cheating, like in the real world ).

I´m just good in modelling ships, but not in scripting, so can someone tell me if its possible or if someone is still working at that issue?

In my opinion Egosoft is currently unable to fix that issue... (No offense)

[brammie]

All depends on what you want,

Economy in DeVries is broken, yes, but the player can fix that pretty fast and thats the place designed to start your empire, the basic energy, wheat and food production is there so you dont have too start from nothing. Feed the shipyard from the other systems if you want ships build there till you have the rest up (the storyline explains it all why it is broken).

The ecells get created here like in x3, out of solar energy and free after the station is build But the thing i'm wondering is where all the 'stuff' goes. The equipment docks in X3 destroyed equipment and there were nice large scale battles going on killing ships (eg paranid invasions into agon terratory). I dont see that here, no big PMC vs terran battles.Bui then again, havnt run the game for a 'long' time yet.

The only things i've noticed that could 'break' the econ is that there are no large scale resource sinks that destroy goods (so the total stays about the same in the whole galaxy) The only things ive seen 'eat' resources are the 'staples life module' they create food (40) after using food (240). But no large scale battles or equipemnt docks eating goods. But i coould be wrong about that.

ps,
most post of that start with 'the economy is broken' are from peeps that dunno how to play the game and have no instant 'i wanne buy plates' button cause i need it now but the NPC's bought it all up. It takes a while till the production/consumption is settled down some.

[lubatomy]

the resource sink is that shipyards make ships every so often and they go off to die (disappear). Thus your resource sink happens at the shipyard level.

[iforgotmysocks]

All depends on what you want,

Economy in DeVries is broken, yes, but the player can fix that pretty fast and thats the place designed to start your empire, the basic energy, wheat and food production is there so you dont have too start from nothing. Feed the shipyard from the other systems if you want ships build there till you have the rest up (the storyline explains it all why it is broken).

The ecells get created here like in x3, out of solar energy and free after the station is build But the thing i'm wondering is where all the 'stuff' goes. The equipment docks in X3 destroyed equipment and there were nice large scale battles going on killing ships (eg paranid invasions into agon terratory). I dont see that here, no big PMC vs terran battles.Bui then again, havnt run the game for a 'long' time yet.

The only things i've noticed that could 'break' the econ is that there are no large scale resource sinks that destroy goods (so the total stays about the same in the whole galaxy) The only things ive seen 'eat' resources are the 'staples life module' they create food (40) after using food (240). But no large scale battles or equipemnt docks eating goods. But i coould be wrong about that.

ps,
most post of that start with 'the economy is broken' are from peeps that dunno how to play the game and have no instant 'i wanne buy plates' button cause i need it now but the NPC's bought it all up. It takes a while till the production/consumption is settled down some.

The economy shouldn't be broken and it shouldn't be needed to be fixed by the player.
The player has the choise to make a difference, not be the one person who tells the whole galaxy how to do it right.

the resource sink is that shipyards make ships every so often and they go off to die (disappear). Thus your resource sink happens at the shipyard level.

Well, there has to be some endlevel consumption to keep the economy running. Its completely stupid to just produce stuff to throw it away,
but i'm guessing there are just way too little ships dying if you want shipyards just to keep up the ship balance.

A solution would be to create simply more war.
More Xenons or Raiders attacking, more defending ships on the field,
more ships dying, so more ships will get reproduced.

[brammie]

The economy shouldn't be broken and it shouldn't be needed to be fixed by the player.

A solution would be to create simply more war.
More Xenons or Raiders attacking, more defending ships on the field,
more ships dying, so more ships will get reproduced.

The broken economy of the canterrans is explained by the story line, long isolation made the economy collapse (id put in a meat and spice facility that produces real slow to keep some food going).

And yes, i agree with the 'more war', where are the invasions, id like to see a PMC fleet going on a rampage thru omnicron now and again (and vice versa). The odd xenon fighter or frigate feels a bit anti climatic.

[cecil101]

Here it is everyone... My 2 cents!

I think freighters are too slow... They take forever to dock, unload, and leave... On the positive side, it gives the stations time to produce...

My point is, it is difficult to pin point what is "wrong" with the economy... Yeah it doesn't work, but, can you safely say part A is wrong without knowing if part B the cause?

For all we know, this is how it's supposed to be (although I'd be unhappy if that were the case).. Maybe ES wants the player to play a more pivotal role in stabilizing of the economy.... Especially since we are limited to station build locations. Can't just go around throwing 20 stations in one sector.. You have to scrutinize what is important and prioritize your station building based on what is and isn't available. For the most part rebirth has a somewhat stable, although slow, economy (save devries, but we know why).

Out of the gates you cannot build 20 arawyns... Unless you cheat.
You have to scrimp and save and buy hard to find resources... Why?
So you can later interject yourself into the economy...
Build a construction ship.
Make a station that will do some good
It will make building more ships and stations progressively easier
I think there should be a "sell ship for parts" button xD just to help stock shipyards.

[brammie]

I've wondered about that, so ships just disappear when selling and there is no restocking of the yard. Good to know, id thought there would be something like a 10% return of the building parts.

Ill think i'm going to start a game that just runs a night or when i'm away, log the save games and see what happens to the economy without interfering, just run it for a few weeks and analyze the save's see what happens. My longest game is 52 hours and i cant realy tell if the econ is broken at all, might just be that every ship just has restocked the facotries that were empty from game start. Like the fuel cells, could be that the ships just were spawned empty and all need to refuel at start, the result would be that there are no fuelcells to be found.

[cecil101]

One of the games I played I sold 3 ships to RoC. They took ownership of the ships, and then they just floated around lol... So I reclaimed them

[YorrickVander]

Checking through a db dump of the galaxy economy the start point is the order pricing (1.22) What orders remain want to buy for minimum cost and sell for maximum. Basic economics to be sure, except that even the npc ai isn't so dumb to trade from high to low... The problem then remains - all the trade-able prices go within a few play hours of the game starting and the economy stalls, never to move again.

The secondary problem is the way the npcs do trade - working on a zone > cluster basis, the few operational trade places in omicron or devries never get stocks from each other or vice-versa. The huge majority of trades are in albion until the player starts building stations in the other systems and arranging inter-system trade themselves. Which would be fine, except we can't get the resources we need without hacking a save file because by the time we could make enough via scanning inventory tat to start and ships or stations the economy is dead. A recent try I built a CV with cheated credits 2 hours into free-play game, but then the station had no constructor drones left for sale. lol.

EDIT : mod and python to export the economy is up now

[dmk]

in my universe (was started from 1.13) in Devries there is only 1 energy and 1 water trader,
they can't transfer even food by themselves, (nor acquire ice for water)
but then I give their shipyard resources they building battleships and sending them to die.

in Omicron - no one trades plankton, and no one trades energy with fuel station. so economy is broken - but just because npc eco script is VERY buggy.
(Omicron shipyard do build transport, but I am unsure how many of them was using for eco needs)

1.22 is not patched that behavior.

[brammie]

I thought they changed the food in the fuel station in omnicron to bofu to fix the stalling of the fuel cells there, im just about to go thru the gate to DeVries, so i cant check yet (version 1.22)...

anyways, the plates factory in albion has resources for at least 12 hours at start, lol..

and i in my free play (1.18) there a like a hand full medium sized ice miners and water carriers in DeVries dunno if they get replaced though gonne test that by 'removing' them with my guns

[Jey123456]

I thought they changed the food in the fuel station in omnicron to bofu to fix the stalling of the fuel cells there, im just about to go thru the gate to DeVries, so i cant check yet (version 1.22)...

anyways, the plates factory in albion has resources for at least 12 hours at start, lol..

and i in my free play (1.18) there a like a hand full medium sized ice miners and water carriers in DeVries dunno if they get replaced though gonne test that by 'removing' them with my guns

for the replacement part. Everytime your load your game, all missing freighters are magically spawned from their job definition sadly.

[spartanheyho]

Perhaps not a "terrible" temporary solution. Most likely better than focusing time and energy on having their replacement be constructed through stations etc. as that would rely on resources within the station and that in itself is tied directly to the state of the economy and the ability for traders to trade which is all mixed/mashed and semi-working it seems.

[xandicar]

I have been playing quit a while now and I think that there is to much micro management to get things running properly.

For a better flow there needs to be a possibility to have some kind of mediator in place that can buy and resell items. For example to be effective it would be nice that the flow of wheat could be controlled in a more efficient kind of way. This could be a station that only has storage space and buys wheat from the producer and sells it to food ration producers. Same can be done for spice, meat etc. It needs to have parameters which act as settings for the station manager to buy / sell. This can be done with his own freighter fleet or by NPC's. If demand shifts the intermediate station can switch to new demands or flows.

This can also be used as a hub for inter galaxy trading, which is now very weak and to time consuming imho.

This station can be made complex to expand and perhaps needs subsidiaries to do cross galaxy trade.

Curious if people see something in this idea.

[jack775544]

Thanks to GoD, the X3 economy cheated alot more then you think.
Any station could spawn goods out of thin air if there was detected to be a shortage, stations were destroyed if the product that they made was too abundant in the galaxy (to give the player some trading opportunities) and if there weren't enough of one type of station it would simply be spawned and given 'free' wares. You could take out every single trader ship in the galaxy in X3 and the stations would still produce and use wares and the universe would not even notice.

[Baconnaise]

Albion lasts quite long if you supply the shipyard indefinitely and build the main stations that produce resources (water/food/spacefuel/energy). You can't do this with Devries or Omicron as they're just broken (different ways) and require way too much effort to get any satisfaction. If you want any sort of traction with station building and trading play free play in Albion only.