One of the big changes in X Rebirth when compared to the old X games is that you as a player will only be flying a single ship. But before you get upset and complain about the lack of freedom to steer other ships, WAIT... that's still possible. Its just packaged in a different way... So please be patient for a moment and read on. Wink
Okay so from the quote it says "complain about the lack of freedom to steer other ships, WAIT... that's still possible." and I am very confused at this. It also says read on, which I did and it didn't explain anything about how you can pilot other ships...
So I want to make this clear, can we pilot other ships or not? With this much detail too, I would've been so hyped to pilot a capital ship in this game, but apparently not, as far as I'm concerned. (And yes, I do know capital ships can no longer be piloted through cockpit. But there must be some way it works right? And if players could participate in that too, that would be a great thing, wouldn't it?)
You can remotely control other ships, utilizing the VR Goggles on your main ship. Otherwise, having just 'one' ship isn't an issue (at least to me anyway)
Everything else, you can only order remotely, through vague commands that are less explicit than what you could order through the command console in X3.
This is because flying anything other than the plot-mandated ship was deemed "boring". (Because nobody likes sandboxes where you have player choice and freedom, anyway.)
This has also been quite hashed to death in the forums.
I too am very concerned about the fact that the player can only pilot the starting ship. To my thinking, this greatly cuts down on the versatility of the game, since you used to be able to jump into your fighter, freighter, or whatever the situation called for, or what you felt like doing at the time. There were many times when I wanted a change of pace and would pilot my superfrieghter rather than my fighter. Or my Hyperion rather than my Nova. There was nothing quite like the feeling of piloting a Mercury Superfreighter (which has a rear cockpit) and seeing that huge ship out in front of you. Cruising along listening to the sound of the engines.
Although he said, "Wait...that's still possible", I believe that was misleading. Simply from the fact that he then goes on to talk about being able to pilot drones through the VR helmet. Unless they plan on making drones the equivalent of most of the different ships used in previous games, I don't see drone piloting as a replacement for the ship choice freedom of previous games. From what I've seen in the videos it looks like drones are small and carried aboard your ship, to be launched like shuttlecraft.
So in answer to your question - the player will only be able to pilot the starting ship (Albion Skunk). Lesser ships - specialized drone ships - can be flown through the use of VR goggles while you physically remain parked in your Skunk.
The upside that I see from this is that rather than giving the player a specific ship (like the starting Buster used in previous games), you're given a ship that is highly customizable. You will be able to add modules and subsystems in a way that allows you to completely customize the ship to be whatever fits your style of play.
The downside of course is that if you're used to being able to switch between flying a fighter and a freighter, you won't be able to do that anymore. Although you can probably customize your ship to be a hybrid fighter/freighter, it will never be as good as a pure fighter or pure freighter.
This of course is not taking into account the modding community and what they might make possible as far as piloting other ships...
For myself, I'm taking a wait and see approach. The game looks so awesome to me that I'm willing to play it just the way it is (at least for the initial playthrough).
-Grax
Last edited by Graxster on Sat, 28. Sep 13, 20:42, edited 1 time in total.
All the freighters are big ships now anyway. If any of them having landing platforms you could still land on them and cruise around. You just can't directly pilot it.
The Trading and Mining video states that there are two types of trading, low-volume item trading, and high-volume bulk trading. Capital class transporters are responsible for the latter, while the former is handled by smaller transporters and the player ship.
Last edited by A5PECT on Sat, 28. Sep 13, 07:38, edited 1 time in total.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in figuring out how to make it worse.
Multi ship flying is a requirement, and an essential, it is not a viable option for 2013.
I think that's a very judgmental and narrow-minded way of thinking.
So since Half-Life 2 had some 12-odd weapons in it, Valve shouldn't have been allowed to make a game afterwards with only one weapon? According to your logic, Portal never should have happened.
One ship or multiple ships is a design decision, just like 2D or 3D is a design decision. You can have a personal preference towards one or the other, but the latter isn't automatically better because the numbers are higher. Actual, objective quality is in how well design decisions are utilized within the entire scope of the game.
Last edited by A5PECT on Sat, 28. Sep 13, 08:24, edited 1 time in total.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in figuring out how to make it worse.
There are still small-scale transporters in Rebirth. One section of the Gamescom demo had players escorting a group of them in a very similar fashion to escort missions in TC/AP.
The Trading and Mining video states that there are two types of trading, low-volume item trading, and high-volume bulk trading. Capital class transporters are responsible for the latter, while the former is handled by smaller transporters and the player ship.
this isn't really accurate, in the sense that i don't think small transporters actually transport any freight
'item' trading consists of data and other objects that are personally transportable, they only need transports in the sense that the transports carry people.
i think the only sense that small transporters move freight is when they move freight between real freighters and stations. or between station modules. or when salvage drones retrieve salvage. etc.
If you listen to the video in the link for a few seconds, Bernd says item trading involves wares "on your ship," not necessarily wares "on your character's person." He also states that item trading can be conducted using wares stolen from other ships. So naturally, other ships must be carrying item-class wares.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in figuring out how to make it worse.
A5PECT wrote:I think that's a very judgmental and narrow-minded way of thinking.
So since Half-Life 2 had some 12-odd weapons in it, Valve shouldn't have been allowed to make a game afterwards with only one weapon? According to your logic, Portal never should have happened.
Portal is a different type of game, set in a different setting, with different technology, and different characters. And, most importantly, takes place in a setting where only one weapon even exists.
A proper comparison would be if valve made HL3 and only allowed you a single weapon.
One ship or multiple ships is a design decision, just like 2D or 3D is a design decision. You can have a personal preference towards one or the other, but the latter isn't automatically better because the numbers are higher. Actual, objective quality is in how well design decisions are utilized within the entire scope of the game.
Indeed. So lets judge the results of the design decision. I can now own a ship, and be barred by a mystical force from getting onboard and flying it. Kind of kills any sense of immersion they are trying to establish.
CutterJohn1 wrote:Indeed. So lets judge the results of the design decision. I can now own a ship, and be barred by a mystical force from getting onboard and flying it. Kind of kills any sense of immersion they are trying to establish.
How can you judge the results without trying it first?
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:How can you judge the results without trying it first?
Because I'm not judging the gameplay. I'm judging the effects it has on immersion and believability. Would you suggest we wait and see how it plays if Egosoft said they were ditching the idea of graphical cockpits? I doubt it. I'm quite sure the consensus would be "That really sucks".
There is nothing to try. No matter how well the game plays, there is still the force field preventing you from getting onto another ship, which is very disheartening in a game where you can actually own those other ships outright. Doubly so since the game literally lets you get off your ship, and lets NPCs you can physically meet get on and take charge of ships you own, but prevents you from doing so.
If this were a game where the story said I wasn't going to get a chance to get on another ship, where perhaps I don't own one, and am instead assigned one, I would not have issue with it. I don't care that I don't get much choice in Freespace, because I'm just a peon in a larger organization, and do not own the ships I fly. In X I'm a mogul who can own fleets. The prohibition makes zero sense from a story perspective, and is very grating.
Last edited by CutterJohn1 on Sat, 28. Sep 13, 10:13, edited 4 times in total.
If piloting in a non-story ship is "boring" and they want to avoid that, how about let us finish the story line first, and then give us option to... say.. be 'licensed' to be able buy and own other ships. But I can completely understand where their design is coming from... I know that they are trying to make the player grow on the starting ship... But we'll see how customizable the ship is and if we can maybe expand the ship into different classes, that would be great too.
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:How can you judge the results without trying it first?
There is nothing to try. No matter how well the game plays, there is still the force field preventing you from getting onto another ship, which is very disheartening in a game where you can actually own those other ships outright. Doubly so since the game literally lets you get off your ship, and lets NPCs you can physically meet get on and take charge of ships you own, but prevents you from doing so.
Ok, I have seen nothing in terms of publicly released information to either indicate or demonstrate exactly how the player immersion will feel in-spite of the restriction of only piloting the Skunk. On this basis, such summary judgement without actually trying it first seems overly harsh IMO.
IF you were to try it out and say for instance "I can see the captain's/navigator's/helmsman's/gunner's chair but why can I not get in it and take control?" then I may actually see your point. However, we have no evidence that this will be the case.
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:Ok, I have seen nothing in terms of publicly released information to either indicate or demonstrate exactly how the player immersion will feel in-spite of the restriction of only piloting the Skunk. On this basis, such summary judgement without actually trying it first seems overly harsh IMO.
I am arbitrarily barred from getting on board ships I personally own and piloting them. I am free to leave my own ship. I can meet NPCs, and hire them, and they can get on and pilot my other ships.
How could anyone possibly consider this to be an immersive state of affairs?
I understand why its done. Its easier. But it is not immersive. Its a limitation of the game, not a feature. No cockpits is easy too. Would you claim that someone must experience flying around with the X3 hull camera before deciding they don't like it and would rather have cockpits?
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:Ok, I have seen nothing in terms of publicly released information to either indicate or demonstrate exactly how the player immersion will feel in-spite of the restriction of only piloting the Skunk. On this basis, such summary judgement without actually trying it first seems overly harsh IMO.
I am arbitrarily barred from getting on board ships I personally own and piloting them. I am free to leave my own ship. I can meet NPCs, and hire them, and they can get on and pilot my other ships.
How could anyone possibly consider this to be an immersive state of affairs?
I understand why its done. Its easier. But it is not immersive. Its a limitation of the game, not a feature. No cockpits is easy too. Would you claim that someone must experience flying around with the X3 hull camera before deciding they don't like it and would rather have cockpits?
You make total sence and i agree, i cant understand why some people would not.
Its easy to understand why they go for only the one cockpit, its easy, but its a immersion breaker and puts me off getting the game at launch.
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:Ok, I have seen nothing in terms of publicly released information to either indicate or demonstrate exactly how the player immersion will feel in-spite of the restriction of only piloting the Skunk. On this basis, such summary judgement without actually trying it first seems overly harsh IMO.
I am arbitrarily barred from getting on board ships I personally own and piloting them. I am free to leave my own ship. I can meet NPCs, and hire them, and they can get on and pilot my other ships.
How could anyone possibly consider this to be an immersive state of affairs?
I understand why its done. Its easier. But it is not immersive. Its a limitation of the game, not a feature. No cockpits is easy too. Would you claim that someone must experience flying around with the X3 hull camera before deciding they don't like it and would rather have cockpits?
Immersion is not about specific functionality and is not necessarily broken by specific features.
The ability/inability to pilot other ships you own is only ONE factor of the overall game. Saying the inability to pilot other ships breaks immersion is a bit like saying the inability to land on planets breaks immersion.
I suspect that the restriction to piloting the Skunk is a limitation of the "Creative Content" rather than specifically the engine itself. Even if it is a current engine limitation, providing said content is designed appropriately the level of immersion may actually be deeper than in previous X-games.
Measuring/Assessing immersion is a very subjective thing - without experiencing it first, any judgement either way is inappropriate IMO.
CutterJohn1 wrote:I understand why its done. Its easier. But it is not immersive. Its a limitation of the game, not a feature. No cockpits is easy too. Would you claim that someone must experience flying around with the X3 hull camera before deciding they don't like it and would rather have cockpits?
let's try it different way. In Mass Effect I had Normandy. It was one ship and I never felt the need of changing it. In Command Carrier I have one ship and I've never wanted different one. In both cases the game is about something else. But one vehicle doesn't break immersion or believability there.
That said you should just doubt if Rebirth cannot possibly be the same thing. That the game is about something else. Empire building for example. Because if you are stuck and already decided that it is wrong then you most likely see "what would X3 be with just one ship" and completely forgetting Rebirth is basically different game.
I can decide about many things whether I like it or not. But we really cannot tell how much is one ship limiting or immersion breaking in Rebirth. We just cannot. If you think you can then you most likely work on some false statements (like "it will be basically X3 with some 'improvements'"). But we don't know how the rest of game will fit. And still, you are "sure" already. That itself should ring a bell in your head that something is wrong.
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