X3:AP Terran attacking my assets when I'm OOS.

[Vantharas]

As it says. The Terran keep attacking me in the "war" systems. However I am loved by them. I have a few factories providing there economy with alot of food weapons and soon to be shields.

However for some reason. Terrans are attacking my ships when I am not in the sector. However if I jump into the system where they attacking my ships. They stop. This isn't making any sense as both the Argon and Terran like me.

The Argon Never attack me. But just random Terran units do. And I need to make it clear there not attacking me so to say, but only my assets and only when I am out of the system...

Is this a known bug? Or are random "rogue" terran pilots part of the Terran AI (if its been changed)

[Nanook]

This isn't a bug, it's a feature. Over to the main forum we go.

[Vantharas]

This isn't a bug, it's a feature. Over to the main forum we go.

How is this a "feature". If anything this needs to be removed as it makes 0 sense. I am providing them with war assets. Weapons, shielding. But whenever I try to take it from saturn to mars to there platforms to supply there ships. They attack me. When has it ever been a "feature" of war to destory your own infrastructure.

[jkjklkl]

Whoever you have lower rep with will attack all of your assets in the war sectors. I don't know why, but people have speculated that it is to keep you from spying and seeing the random spawning of stations whenever it changes sides.

When has it ever been a "feature" of war to destory your own infrastructure.

The way the economy works, there is no infrastructure. The only effect you have on the game by selling them weapons and shields is an increase in credits. Ships spawn with predetermined armaments, regardless of whether or not you provide them

[Vantharas]

Whoever you have lower rep with will attack all of your assets in the war sectors. I don't know why, but people have speculated that it is to keep you from spying and seeing the random spawning of stations whenever it changes sides.

I'm not really interested in who owns a said system. I am providing infrastructure to a race at war. They in turn should not be attacking me. This "feature" needs to be removed since it is totally impractical in a war situation. You do not destroy your own supply ships. Or ships providing your side with needed assets.

Or I need a script that will make my ships jump from "unknown" sector to mercury then fly to mars and "jump back" instead of flying through the asteroid belt.

I think its rediculous that every terran sector from the asteriod belt to the moon is completely devoid of anything due to the fact they wont let my ships through unless I am personally in the system. Which is stupid. If they won't attack my ships when I'm around. They shouldn't attack my ships at all. Broken "feature" is broken imho.

[jkjklkl]

I'm not really interested in who owns a said system. I am providing infrastructure to a race at war. They in turn should not be attacking me. This "feature" needs to be removed since it is totally impractical in a war situation. You do not destroy your own supply ships. Or ships providing your side with needed assets.

The thing is that they're your supply ships, not the Terrans'. If you want to roleplay and ignore the fact that they don't actually need your stuff, think of it like this.

You are a third party in this war. Neither side knows your motives, your plans, or what you are capable of. You obviously favor the Argon, since you have a higher rep with them than you do with the Terrans. The Terrans can't trust that what you're doing is in good faith, and so attack your assets in order to preempt any attempt at sabotage.

Or I need a script that will make my ships jump from "unknown" sector to mercury then fly to mars and "jump back" instead of flying through the asteroid belt.

CLS2

[InFlamesForEver]

What's "stupid" is the fact that its all dependent on whether or not you are in sector at the time. Otherwise it makes sense because factions don't like people who supply arms to both sides and if you have more rep with one side I can see why this has been put in. Not that I agree with it, although I have never come across this feature due to my constant attempts to kill all humans

[sleepy_head]

You are a third party in this war. Neither side knows your motives, your plans, or what you are capable of. You obviously favor the Argon, since you have a higher rep with them than you do with the Terrans. The Terrans can't trust that what you're doing is in good faith, and so attack your assets in order to preempt any attempt at sabotage.

I sure am glad the real world does NOT follow such thinking.

During world war II after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, there were any number of asian countries who were neutral, but had closer ties and better relationship with Japan than the United States. Did the US destroy all those shops and stores owned by those people in the country? Of course not. And needing to actually explain 'why not' to someone is just a tad insulting to their intelligence.

I'm not directly addressing the poster whom I quoted, but can't everyone please just call a dog a dog and stop doing intellectual backflips to rationalize this? It was a deliberate design decision specifically made as a hurdle for the player. It was implemented neither based upon reason nor logic, but was put there because the devs deemed it appropriate, for good or for bad. Why can't people simply admit that?

[Lazerius]

You are a third party in this war. Neither side knows your motives, your plans, or what you are capable of. You obviously favor the Argon, since you have a higher rep with them than you do with the Terrans. The Terrans can't trust that what you're doing is in good faith, and so attack your assets in order to preempt any attempt at sabotage.

I sure am glad the real world does NOT follow such thinking.

During world war II after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, there were any number of asian countries who were neutral, but had closer ties and better relationship with Japan than the United States. Did the US destroy all those shops and stores owned by those people in the country? Of course not. And needing to actually explain 'why not' to someone is just a tad insulting to their intelligence.

I'm not directly addressing the poster whom I quoted, but can't everyone please just call a dog a dog and stop doing intellectual backflips to rationalize this? It was a deliberate design decision specifically made as a hurdle for the player. It was implemented neither based upon reason nor logic, but was put there because the devs deemed it appropriate, for good or for bad. Why can't people simply admit that?

Oh no, the real world doesn't follow such thinking

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_A ... internment

This did effect people of multiple asian ethnicity, not just Japanese.

Not to mention the Holocaust, Slavery, and millions of other travesties that have taken place throughout human history.

In X3:AP you can just consider your OOS ships that die in these sectors as casualties of war. Think of it as they get caught in the cross fire, or caught in an explosion, much like the millions of innocent civilians who have died in pretty well any and every warzone since the term modern warfare was coined.

I don't like it either, but what can I say. War is Hell.

[sleepy_head]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_A ... internment

This did effect people of multiple asian ethnicity, not just Japanese.

No it did *not*. The wonderful thing about history is that making claims doesn't make something true, you need references. Show me a history book where it tells us that the US bombed or attacked the stores and shops owned by neutral nation citizens in the US just because the nations of those citizens have a closer ties to the enemy of the US than US itself.

There clearly was no such act.

Not to mention the Holocause, Slavery, and millions of other travesties that have taken place throughout human history.

What does any of that have to do with the TOPIC under discussion? - which is a country attacking the assets of the citizens belonging to nations that are considered neutral?

[Lazerius]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_A ... internment

This did effect people of multiple asian ethnicity, not just Japanese.

No it did *not*. The wonderful thing about history is that making claims doesn't make something true, you need references. Show me a history book where it tells us that the US bombed or attacked the stores and shops owned by neutral nation citizens in the US just because the nations of those citizens have a closer ties to the enemy of the US than US itself.

There clearly was no such act.

Not to mention the Holocause, Slavery, and millions of other travesties that have taken place throughout human history.

What does any of that have to do with the TOPIC under discussion? - which is a country attacking the assets of the citizens belonging to nations that are considered neutral?

You're the one CLAIMING that I stated that the US "bombed or attacked the stores and shops owned by neutral nation citizens in the US just because of their nations bla bla bla."

I said it EFFECTED them. As in, War greatly effects everybody in the area of the war.

And if you actually try reading past the 1st paragraph in the link I provided, you'd find your proof. Under the section "Historical Context" it states:

"In 1905, California's anti-miscegenation law outlawed marriages between Caucasians and "Mongolians", an umbrella term that was used to refer to the Japanese and other ethnicities of East Asian ancestry."

Under Exclusion, Removal, Detention:

Somewhere between 110,000 and 120,000 people of Japanese ancestry were subject to this mass exclusion program, of whom about two-thirds were U.S. citizens.[2] The remaining one-third were non-citizens subject to internment under the Alien Enemies Act; many of these "resident aliens" had long been inhabitants of the United States, but had been deprived the opportunity to attain citizenship by laws that blocked Asian-born nationals from ever achieving citizenship.

Laws preventing ASIAN BORN, not just Japanese.

I can go on, but frankly I don't feel like going on past a wikipedia article to prove a point to some jerk on forums who doesn't know his history.

And the other things were to show you how the X3 universe compares to our REAL life, and not the one you have clearly living tucked away safely in your parent's basement. War is Hell. Deal with it, b/c they're not changing the game just because it's inconvenient to you.

Try NOT to make assumptions of what you think people say, and than follow it up with being douche on forums, and maybe you won't get so frustrated with little things in life. kthx

[dion_b]

Rather than focus on the geopolitical side, let's keep it in-game.

What Vantharas is objecting to is a clear IS/OOS difference in friend/foe behaviour.

I experience it too: no Terran or ATF ship will attack me or any of my assets IS, but OOS they tear the exact same assets to shreds.

I have the feeling this is also independent of reputation. In my current game my reputation with Terrans and ATF is absymal, but if I read Vantharas correctly he has good reputation with both sides.

Expected behaviour would be that assets of someone with negative reputation is targeted IS and OOS, and assets of someone with positive reputation are not targeted. Observed behaviour is otherwise as described above.

[Alan Phipps]

Link it with the Laser Towers belonging to friendly stations that can appear friendly or hostile to your assets depending upon whether you are IS or OOS and you realise that these are game coding 'features' with unexpected affects and absolutely nothing to do with RL history.

[devilsad]

It's like the old joke, what has four corners, feathers, and can kill you if it hits you? A pillow with a brick inside. Why would a pillow have a brick inside? They put the brick in to make it hard...

You get attacked by whichever race (Argon/Terran) likes you least so that the War sectors are Hard. It doesn't have to make any sense and you should stop looking for some. The intent is to keep you from building your rep to maximum with both races and continuing your little empire in those sectors as if nothing is happening. The fact that it splits the Terran space in two with no way between them other than the possibly random jump beacons is the major oversight here, or perhaps not so major if you assume ES are anti-Terran.

[Lazerius]

I apologize for derailing the thread for a short time. I was just trying to make a short point, to which I was told I was wrong. At this point, it became CHALLENGE ACCEPTED time

I HAAAATE my ships getting attacked in OOS combat in Warzone sectors. It pretty well means I've been forced to cut terran most terran sectors off to my UT's and CAG's, and making my terran goods complex outside of Terran space incredibly difficult to automate trade to the terrans (without fear of being OOS ganked in WZ's).

To add to the fun, CL1's don't use jump beacons AFAIK, so the only way to supply my Equipment Dock in saturn (which happens to be placed 5k from a jump beacon) is to manually jump them in, or else get them blown up when they jump into Asteroid Belt.

I'd much prefer this be changed/fixed to not attack player ships if we're friendly with both factions, but It IS a warzone, so it's not something I expect.

[sleepy_head]

I was just trying to make a short point, to which I was told I was wrong.

Your point had absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. The topic here is about one faction ATTACKING (read : not 'affecting' as you put it) the assets of neutral parties in their territories. You agreed yourself that you hate this, so ask yourself *why*. Thats because it makes no sense, hence it comes full circle.

dot dot dot...

Getting BACK to the topic at hand, my assertion is that Egosoft deliberately designed it like this to be a challenge/hurdle/pain (you choose). It has nothing to do with how nations will ACTUALLY behave towards third parties. So simply call it a deliberate design decision and stop dignifying this with 'sense' or reason, because like so many things in the game (like radio frequency only travelling 25km in the universe) it is a DEV DECISION, not based on reality, or sensibility or history.

[Nanook]

... if you assume ES are anti-Terran.

I think this is rather obvious, since the Terrans have no plot, no way to get the PHQ, Hub, and other CW-only goodies.

[rabcor]

It actually wouldn't surprise me if the US did bomb neutral nations stuff if they were supplying the Japanese. It would however surprise me if they admitted to doing it. Both because it's morally wrong, and starting a war with one nation risks infuriating it's neighbors.

But on topic here... i hate this "feature" it is incredibly silly. It's enough risk already that your vessels could get caught in a crossfire. Egosoft didn't need to exaggerate things by spawning Terrans for the sole purpose of making our lives a bit more miserable...

Also, it's even more silly that they turn all goody two shoes if you jump into the sector.

Since there's an ongoing war it goes without saying that being an arms dealer (and doing so for both sides) should be just one more way to earn large amounts of money fast. I know that in the real world, if i was an arms dealer and saw an opportunity to supply both sides, the money would blindfold me from the risks so of course i'd try (think it's morally wrong? in war neither side is completely evil, but from what i see recently the americans seem to be the most aggressive nation in the world, they're fighting to take over oil springs for their own profits from what i see). And the only risk is that one side figures out you're supplying the other. However if anyone would need to be supplied for the war in AP, it'd be the terrans since they're alone vs the universe and no matter how fast they are, i doubt they can develop enough weapons fast enough to take on the rest of the world.

Moving your ships through supply zones should definitely not get them attacked by terrans if you're friendly with them, the only risk should be crossfire. What reason do the terrans even have to attack your ship when you're flying through argon space (omicron lyrae, treasure chest, circle of labour....) rather than the argon fleet, their actual enemies?

[Joe McCracken]

you know......

there is another way into the terran sectors....

you don't have to go to mars and such.... let those sectors starve. feed the others.

[Nanook]

Ok, you've had your rant, and used an old, dead thread to do it. End of rant.