Poll - Are you fed up with all of the negativity.

[Jase555]

good Morning.

The negativity is starting to get me down. Can we signal which threads are constructive and which ones are just plain destructive. I'm not commenting on gameplay just the mood on the forum.

Each X game costs next to nothing to buy. Each one supported for a couple of years after with great content and patch fixing.

Go down the pub tonight and you'll spend the same as Rebirth will cost. What will you have to show for it tomorrow apart from a headache.

Buy rebirth. Do it because all of the previous games were great and Egosoft always comes good in the end despite several dodgy starts. Have some faith that they know what they are doing. You have nothing to lose.

Why are you bashing them all of the time? Are your lives so empty that you have nothing else to do? If I was on the dev team it would destroy my morale to see my pride and joy, something that should be soooo looked forward to, bashed consistently without anyone even seeing the game.

Why can't we look at the positives in this and wait for the negatives. So much rage quitting. I'm going back to bed.

[thetack]

because of the word STEAM after that who cares

[Jase555]

because of the word STEAM after that who cares

I'm not getting drawn in until I have the game in my hand. We don't have the detail just wait and see.

1) Get and understand the information when it comes out.
2) Choose to buy or not.

Simples. You have no say except for 1 and 2. The decision on steam has already been made.

[Alee Enn]

The decision on steam has already been made.

Maybe ... and this is a long shot here ... just a guess ... a wild stab in the dark ... very long odds ...
maybe, that is why there is so much negativity?

Us, the loyal fan base, the customers, want a choice. If our choice has been decided for us, then should our complaining really be that much of a surprise?

[Coupaholic]

I can't blame people for the negativity, this game is a change to some core concepts of the franchise it makes sense to be concerned if the main reason you love X games is the one thing that is no longer there.

It reminds me of Oblivion, though I never played Morrowind I do remember fans being doubtful of Oblivion since it was a 'dumbed down' game by Elder Scrolls standards - yet it turned out to be one of the best games ever made, and I for one loved it.

I've already explained that I'm really liking the look of this game and it's radical departure from the norm - but really until we get the game in full it's all just assumption and guesswork anyway. Better to wait until it's out, then have an opinion.

[thetack]

its not the game we are negative about but the delivery system i dont care what Ego have changed i will flame them when i play if its wrong not before but i wont be playing because i dont want steam near my rig so why do you expect me or most of the long timers to be posative about something we wont touch because of the delivery method..

[Le Baron]

1) Buy rebirth. Do it because all of the previous games were great and Egosoft always comes good in the end despite several dodgy starts. Have some faith that they know what they are doing.

2) You have nothing to loose.

1) I want to buy Rebirth. Honestly! I have already offered 500 EUR for a legal steam-free version. But I don't want to buy and install Steam!

2) HAHA, good joke

And steam thing is decided for the moment. That's clear. Offer an option besides (!) steam and everything will be fine in this forum.

[ragamer]

Negativity coming from old players... yes. Fed up with it.

Seems that some ppl really don't understand the concept of what a "new game" implies.

Followed by ppl wanting EXACLY the same recipe and at the same time refusing to THINK (remember, part of this game "motto") on how to use the new recipes to achieve what they are after...

...Then there is that sector that seems to mix their previous X games experience with their experience playing modded X games...

...But at the same time they systematically deny what the ALREADY CONFIRMED moding capabilities of XRB can do to their "vision" of an X game.

Negativity is just a way to address the Unknown... To highlight what you dislike and hide what you like... So yes, fed up with that, because users like that kill creativity on games, because they will be the 1st to bail when a Developer sells them the SAME game with just new labels on the Box, but are a constant obstacle for the series evolution...

...There is a risk on trying new things, OFC, not denying it... But instead of bitching saying "I want so stay like I'm now" go forward and explain what you want in a way that's appealing for new players and Devs to read, understand and maybe include into the future of the Series (Not necesarily on the next tittle).

[Chris0132]

It's certainly odd to me that I, someone who only somewhat enjoys X3, would be more interested in X:R than people who play more X3 than I play several other games combined.

[Jase555]

Negativity coming from old players... yes. Fed up with it.

Seems that some ppl really don't understand the concept of what a "new game" implies.

Followed by ppl wanting EXACLY the same recipe and at the same time refusing to THINK (remember, part of this game "motto") on how to use the new recipes to achieve what they are after...

...Then there is that sector that seems to mix their previous X games experience with their experience playing modded X games...

...But at the same time they systematically deny what the ALREADY CONFIRMED moding capabilities of XRB can do to their "vision" of an X game.

Negativity is just a way to address the Unknown... To highlight what you dislike and hide what you like... So yes, fed up with that, because users like that kill creativity on games, because they will be the 1st to bail when a Developer sells them the SAME game with just new labels on the Box, but are a constant obstacle for the series evolution...

...There is a risk on trying new things, OFC, not denying it... But instead of bitching saying "I want so stay like I'm now" go forward and explain what you want in a way that's appealing for new players and Devs to read, understand and maybe include into the future of the Series (Not necesarily on the next tittle).

Take a seat mate. I'll get you a pint.

[A5PECT]

It's certainly odd to me that I, someone who only somewhat enjoys X3, would be more interested in X:R than people who play more X3 than I play several other games combined.

It's not too surprising. If they devote a lot of time to X3 then they'll become more familiar with it.

Since Rebirth seeks to change a lot of the gameplay, it alienates people who are heavily accustomed to Reunion/TC.

Since you're not so deeply devoted to the current gameplay ideology, you're more willing to move away from it.

[Ketraar]

It has not really much to do with Rebirth or it being new or not. Its a general behaviour, like a defence mechanism embedded in peoples brains, that tries to save them from being disappointed.

So its not uncommon to expect the worst case scenario just to make sure whatever you get is better than expected. Quite common. But to answer the question, yeah it tends to get quite annoying.

MFG

Ketraar

[ragamer]

Since you're not so deeply devoted to the current gameplay ideology, you're more willing to move away from it.

That's a paradox on a gaming environment...

...It works for things you do for earning income or to feel safe but...

...To enjoy?... Barely. Any recreational activity is killed on the long run by monothony.

This series wouldn't have lasted long if they just restricted themselves to sell the same game... In fact, if you REALLY pay close attention to what most the negative posters say you discover that they disregard the most typical reassons any other company will use to charge their playerbase again:

- New Plot.
- New Graphics.

So the question is... What has been fuelling their interest over the years?

My answer is... All those gameplay additions Devs has constantly been expanding the orginal game with...

...But they refuse to understand/acknowledge that to keep expanding you have to incorporate the advantages the new hardware comes with... And that can't be done without starting from scratch, the processing engine was simply too old...

...This is the issue, I think, this Community is been provided with a new way to keep expanding but... Due to limits imposed by the industry needs to be done in one step at a time, starting by the basement of a new, much more powerfull X series...

...That's why Devs need to be ambitious at adding (and optimizing their software to) as much new features as possible, instead of focusing on expanding the old ones... You see it plenty on the "Hot Topics" for the oldies... They are ALL existing mechanics on XRB... Limited (But if you think carefully EASILY expandable later when more Dev time is allocated... Or even directly by the Modders).

[Gazz]

...Then there is that sector that seems to mix their previous X games experience with their experience playing modded X games...

...But at the same time they systematically deny what the ALREADY CONFIRMED moding capabilities of XRB can do to their "vision" of an X game.

I don't know how much X-modding experience you have but this is a sweeping generalisation.

It is true that XRB has been said to "be moddable".

What this definitely implies is that content can be moded.
Scripts will also be modable.

What is absolutly not implied is that core game mechanics can be altered.
That applies, for instance, to the player being stuck in one ship for the entire game.
Given how adamant Bernd is on that point, it is not that likely that the engine will support any deviation from that.

X3 is also massively modable but core game mechanics, like the freedom of movement of a laser turret, can not be altered in any shape or form. Telling someone to "just mod it" doesn't work. It cannot be moded. No way, no how.
That's just one example, of course. There are more.

[Chris0132]

It's certainly odd to me that I, someone who only somewhat enjoys X3, would be more interested in X:R than people who play more X3 than I play several other games combined.

It's not too surprising. If they devote a lot of time to X3 then they'll become more familiar with it.

Since Rebirth seeks to change a lot of the gameplay, it alienates people who are heavily accustomed to Reunion/TC.

Since you're not so deeply devoted to the current gameplay ideology, you're more willing to move away from it.

I guess, but the reason I like the look of X:R is that it's still definitely X, I like the IDEA of X an awful lot, the reason I'm iffy on X3 is that I don't particularly like the execution.

Whereas X:R seems to definitely have the same idea, but be much better executed.

So I would have thought anyone who enjoys X would be looking forward to X:R.

[Alee Enn]

I'm fed up with seeing posts from people WHO DON'T READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS

We have stated we are not moaning about Rebirth, but about being forced to use Steam.

Which bit of that does not compute?

[A5PECT]

We have stated we are not moaning about Rebirth, but about being forced to use Steam.

There are still plenty of people logging complaints against actual gameplay changes in addition to those against Steam.

The Steam issue is a separate topic.

So I would have thought anyone who enjoys X would be looking forward to X:R.

This is probably a crass generalization...

But people that look forward to Rebirth typically cite that it will lead Egosoft do developing even better games in the future.

A lot of people think the opposite, which is actually understandable. If you're going by linear progression, then Egosoft removing features between TC and Rebirth will lead to them removing even more features in future games (I hear the word "consolization" or some variant thrown about a lot).

Except you can't really apply linear progression to a creative process.

As an artist I know first-hand that if I want to make a better drawing, I don't just take an old one, erase some parts, then draw over it again. I start the entire process over from scratch in a new drawing.

I think Egosoft's decision regarding the creative direction of Rebirth speaks volumes about their commitment to creating a good game as opposed simply making money. Bernd never fails to mention that as developers Egosoft was in a comfortable place while creating X2/X3R/X3TC: they had an established engine. All they had to do was add bits and pieces of content and release it as a new game. But even they realized the limitations of that design scheme, and instead of letting the series stagnate they moved themselves out of their comfort zone and got back to basics to make the game fundamentally better.

[Jase555]

I'm fed up with seeing posts from people WHO DON'T READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS

We have stated we are not moaning about Rebirth, but about being forced to use Steam.

Which bit of that does not compute?

Hello Alien. Why such rage? Calm down.

It sounds like you have made your choice. So why spoil it for others. We get it. You aren't going to buy the game.

Log out and move on.

[ragamer]

Dealing with the unknown is the key difference, Gazz.

What is absolutly not implied is that core game mechanics can be altered.

100% accurate... But I think we are using a different meaning for the "mechanic" term.

That applies, for instance, to the player being stuck in one ship for the entire game.
Given how adamant Bernd is on that point, it is not that likely that the engine will support any deviation from that.

This is a good example on the differences about "mechanics"...

What you need to create a "mod" to swap the ship player flies in real time?:

- A mechanic to swap PoV+Control in real time to another 3d entity. Confirmed, as Drone Control is precissely that.

- A mechanic to associate new "flying stats" (including here a new 3d model with different collision sections, hardpoints, etc) to the new 3d entity. Confirmed, as Drone Control is precissely that.

- Ability to change the interior of the player ship. NOT confirmed.

- Ability to associate an interior to any 3d entity. NOT confirmed.

- Ability to change the 3d model shown for a 3d entity. NOT confirmed.


This are the steps... A "mechanic" is what the game is capable of... An "ability" is the way a Modder can alter that basic mechanic.

The issue is that if you don't have the "mechanic" there is no way in hell to publish an Ability to alter it.


An even better example would be the component damage... It's not clear if we will be able to Mod the hardpoints (And I have the feeling that it will be very complex... In the realm of scene modding level for editing things as turret type, animation or possition in the previous X's) but without the base mechanic that makes them independently damageable we wouldn't have the option to alter the game performance by modding them.

This is what I mean the Devs, with limited time, should be focusing on the new engine... Adding mechanics that later (or sooner) can be "published" as Abilites for the mods to use.

[X2-Illuminatus]

It sounds like you have made your choice. So why spoil it for others. We get it. You aren't going to buy the game.

Log out and move on.

Same could be said to you , eh? You already made your choice, you're going to buy the game. So, why spoil the fun for others to discuss their concerns and expectations?