I see Cockpits. Hurrah!

[giskard]

Docking and space flight for me has to be immersive, X was always about being in space for me and everything in the game has to make me feel like i am in space. That was and still is the key thing all X games had to have for me.

In X3 I felt like I was flying around with a monitor for window looking at planets as I smash in to the invisible asteroids that I could see the planet though. That is why I skipped X3 TC and waited until the super pack to snap it up as a bargin. Even then I believe I only have about 8 hours in the game because it was the same old unimpressive experience as X3 was.

I am too sceptical to embrace everything from the news letter 45 on face value. I still remember telling Bernd about those points above and being told to give them a chance, I would get used to them.

Well Bernd, I never did get used to them.

I dropped out of the X3TC beta because of them after being one of your best X3 testers, I have shown no interest in the X rebirth beta because of it and I avoided buying X3TC for years because of it, even now, I only have about 8 hours in X3TC because it.

And I am what many would consider to be a hardcore X fan that still remembers the fun split conversions on your old X forum.

When X3 stopped being the X I loved, my interest faded. I have always know this was why my interest faded despite X remaining a great game. So I know exactly what X has to have to get me back.

So I was very happy to see Cockpits back, I hope nebulas will look realistic again and I certainly hope the space sim feel will be the single most important part of X Rebirths design this time around. This is the X mojo that X3 lost, everything after that is a bonus.

I also like the freelancer style highways idea, I always liked that about Freelancer and always felt it added to the immersion as I dropped out of space in a civilized sector or got knocked out of space in bandit country. I even posted the idea in the past so I am all for it.

I am looking forward to seeing what Egosoft does with that.

I also like the idea of stations and completely agree about the statements of complexity in the news letter, I said many years ago that Egosoft would not be able to keep making games more and more complicated without sacrificing something and in X3 we saw what got sacrificed.

X lost too much because of that mistake.

A return to a simpler yet involving and less boring game model is welcome. A single ship gives Egosoft a chance to do things that it has not been able to do since XT and X2. This is a good sign for me and I am perfectly happy to give it and go and see how it works.

I know the value of this idea and what it means to hard core fans like my self wanting the old X feeling back.

It also allows Egosoft to introduce some limited RPG features to the ships crew, which is also a new and exciting direction.

I see the modding system is basically the same though, I can understand Ego sticking to what they know best but XML is the middle man and always will be. An unnecessary step when all you want is a programming language and a cheap programming editor to write in.

Instead we need filters and custom interfaces to use it which takes the fun out of it for me and always will.

When I can use my favourite Programming text editor to write missions for X, and drop the script in to a folder and have the game use it directly. Let me know, I'll be interested. Until then, I'll probably be modding Skyrim which does let me do that. Even if i have to copy and paste from my editor first

I very much want the old X back and I hope X Rebirth will do that, so Egosoft as my best wishes and hopes for the future, but not my cash at this point.

I need some convincing first Bernd but its looking good so far.

[Skeeter]

Im the same mate. They told us we would get used to no cockpits in x3 and beyond but i never did. The menu changes from x2 to x3 were really bad as i felt x2 menus system was great and didnt need changing. That side bar also off putting too much like eve which i dont like the bar in that either.

Just never grabbed me them x3 games never really got far except the tunnel mission in x3 and duno but only played like few hrs in tc before i uninstalled it as it was boring.

I, like you, lost interest in the franchise after that. Did start posting again last or this year i forget when and was cinical in posts alot lol.

Still am to a degree least it shows you get honest replies and no fanboi crap which helps the devs i would have thought.

Cockpit coming back is great. I just wish internal docking came back too i just fell in love with xbtf when i played it and had that certain docking music play and you go to the lights and follow em and then enter the hatch at a certain docking speed and just loved that bit going in that section and then im docking inside.

They keep changing good bits for crap bits in every game since x2. X rebirth might be a come back in some respect but we shall see. Certainly not buying it without reviews from players that liked the stuff i liked or play a playable demo (no rolling stuff).

[EmperorJon]

To be honest, although X2 cockpits WERE nice, I think the menu systems from before were TERRIBLE. People complain about TC's interface, I love it, I find it really useful and intuitive enough. Even R's interface annoys me.

[TheGoldElite]

To be honest, although X2 cockpits WERE nice, I think the menu systems from before were TERRIBLE. People complain about TC's interface, I love it, I find it really useful and intuitive enough. Even R's interface annoys me.

Agreed, I played X2 onwards, and TC was a huge improvement, but still based on the same flawed concept. A fresh start is exactly what they needed. I'm thinking the whole one ship thing won't be too bad, so long as you are still level with everyone else. If everyone else seems to be piloting bit ships and all the fighters are drones then that's fine. If other people get to pilot the fight craft the good ol' fashion way and I don't then that would be a mega buzzkill :/

[giskard]

Menu systems have always been primitive in X but to be honest, that is not really what we are talking about here.

Having an menu instead of a cockpit lost egosoft a lot of its long term fans in X3. The fact they are doing X Rebirth at all should tell you it was a step too far.

I, for example have played the series since XBTF, I have the original box on the shelf right next to me. It says on the back "You are the pilot of an experimental craft that accidentally drops you in to an unknown sector of the universe, your mission is simple, get home alive".

In the original game and all games prior to X3, you where the Han Solo of the X universe, surrounded by enemies, no idea where to go, making it up as you went a long, survival of quickest, sneakiest and most cunning.

Looking out of your cockpit window, accidentally smashing in to the dock because your docking skills where not good and going back to try again and feeling a sense of relief when you finally did make it to the station and sold your goods.

Then getting cocky after a few successful docks and trying the same move again at high speed or flying through the stations super structure to impress your Elite fan friends.

Saving your game at journeys end and then going to make a cup of coffee before deciding if the short cut through the xenon sectors was worth the risk.

By the time you got a station, you had already had the thrill of your life, the station just made it even cooler.

That was the X that the hard core fans loved, sitting in our ships totally immersed in the experience.

In X3 we where flying a 23inch monitor and staring at some for worst nebulas and most boring docking scenes ever made not because it was immersive and fun but because you had to in order to get that station and big ships.

Menus or not, that was a massive step backwards for any real scifi fan that liked space games.

[ThommoHawk]

I prefer the voice treatment of 'Betty' in XBTF and XTension, too. I dislike the way the verbose ship voice was 'douibled up' in the X2/3 games - it is a nasty patchy job of sound engineering imo.

I SO hope that this XR copilot will have a cool sounding voice because nothing is worse than being stuck in a ship with the central interface voice irritating you forever (I am talking about the quality of the voice - not the contents of what it is saying).

[giskard]

Thommo

Yes it was a package deal for me too, it all added layers to the games immersion, betty was pretty important to that.

[Shootist]

I prefer the voice treatment of 'Betty' in XBTF and XTension, too. I dislike the way the verbose ship voice was 'douibled up' in the X2/3 games - it is a nasty patchy job of sound engineering imo.

I SO hope that this XR copilot will have a cool sounding voice because nothing is worse than being stuck in a ship with the central interface voice irritating you forever (I am talking about the quality of the voice - not the contents of what it is saying).

Betty is back. At least in the trailers. I am still holding out for the co-pilot to actually be voiced by Betty.

[Kor'ah]

...and comes equipped with a mute button.

[strude]

I think what I like most about the cockpit is that it will really increase frame rates in the game. The GPU will be sleeping most of the time, since half the viewing area is blocked by the cockpit. Awesome!

[RavenIII]

Ah, reading this thread did bring back some nostalgia. Even the act of moving from a small M5/M4 in a station to my M6 (Corvette) waiting outside was a gleeful thing as I picked up supplies at a station that couldn't take my corvette.

I never played as much X3R/TC as I did X2, and when I did I lost interest quickly. Come to think of it, nestling my illegal factories in an orange or pink nebulae nestled in a sector was also a great little roleplay - even if it added no functional value.

I like others here needed some convincing about XR, I will admit I was very skeptical and quite disappointed to hear X made a return - and then hearing capital ships were unpilotable, and then hearing there would only be one ship... it wasn't looking good. With all that said, I think with X-News #45 I have actually been convinced.

Of course, I'm still terribly disappointed by the lack of multiplayer - I'm still waiting for another Freelancer (with slight more depth economically). But, I shall let it slide, because it does look really, really promising.

Still waiting on even more details though, but the production quality of the trailers, and the screenshot content is fantastic. Just please, no cutscene end of stories...

Spoiler

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The Earth ring station was ruined for me in TC by that! All the others just felt un-needed.

[Falcrack]

Personally I prefer no cockpits. I'd rather have better visibility than some pretty dials, buttons and bulkheads obstructing half my field of view.

[Apalapa]

First two x games i loved.
The cockpit removal killed the series for me .. so looking forward to the 'Rebirth' of the X - games, long overdue...........

[chew-ie]

First two x games i loved.
The cockpit removal killed the series for me .. so looking forward to the 'Rebirth' of the X - games, long overdue...........

Yep, indeed.

Those "I want to trade cockpit immersion for 'better' view"-guys had their games - X3:Reunion and X3:Terran Conflict.

Now it´s our turn again.

[Skeeter]

First two x games i loved.
The cockpit removal killed the series for me .. so looking forward to the 'Rebirth' of the X - games, long overdue...........

Yep, indeed.

Those "I want to trade cockpit immersion for 'better' view"-guys had their games - X3:Reunion and X3:Terran Conflict.

Now it´s our turn again.

So very true.

[Arragoth]

I started with X3 Reunion and moved towards X3TC, but i never really liked the full screen view, nor the overcrowded sector space with segmented parts of space, it reminded me way too much too EvE online wich i never liked due the simular reasons..

The Cockpit mods made up a bit for the lack of them, but i didnt like the way they looked again TBH (maybe im too critical on such things) and dispite i played X3TC because there was no equal available cept older games like Freelancer i still play it occasionally, but admitted a heave modded version adjusting the game more too my likings..

But what i read thusfar of rebirth i like, still i only can really judge it when i actually playing the game (on wich i cant wait tbh) and i am exalted bout that we only have "one" ship too control, i allways found the AI WC's too dumb too use, cept as cannonfodder (I played mostly a very agressive Split with Conquring the universe mind-set, so no trading for this fellow) so combat was my thing...

But i just keep a open mindset on Rebirth, i loved Reunion and TC dispite its "flaws" and quircks and very dull atmosphere in the game, but just beeing able to do whatever i desired was the part i loved bout X3...
I really hope they adress the issues of X3, improve them, make the game less dull and boring too look at, and more feeling that you actually fly a spaceship, and really docking only can make want this game more and more

But alas whatever it will be, this game just moved too the Nr1 spot of my most wanted games

[Virtualaughing]

Cockpits are good as long as you have the option to disable them. I remeber of X2 capitals where you got 30% view of the surrounding space. That is really lame

[unknown1]

Cockpits are good as long as you have the option to disable them. I remeber of X2 capitals where you got 30% view of the surrounding space. That is really lame

You could allway press F2

[dphantom]

I understand all people who like cockpits, I mean the most certainly look cool and add to the immersion effect of the game, looking "realistic" if one can use that adjective. Plus with ship interiors and all it makes sense to extend it.
I mean the option should be there for who wants them, but there should also be a no cockpit version to.

Personally the cockpit view will never be as efficient as a HUD displaying information, will allways be lacking in features, and need additional menus/screens, and ultimately will consume more screen real estate that would otherwise be use to actually see the game.
If they try to make the cockpit view obstruct as little of the outside as possible you will eventually end up with a set of small boxes littered around the screen edge displaying info too small to actually be seen, and have to overlay a HUD on top of it anyway.
If you think about it aren't real life aircraft cockpits tending to that anyway. Like fighter jets with a glass canopy and a transparent Heads up Display in front of it?

I think a decent third person view would be much more welcome. Not one like in X3 that was a simple fixed camera view more suited to look at the ship itself, but a camera view that was actually usable in game play, that would flow being the ship, following its movement and giving it a sense of speed and weight as it flew and maneuvered through space.
It would be particularly cool given all the details space ships seem to have now, like animated turrets and customizable surface elements and modules.

[Falcrack]

I agree with the above post. I think having a cockpit is fine for those who care about it, but the option for a "HUD only" view should also exist for folks like myself. I would rather be focussing on the view outside my ship than to have so much of my view obstructed by bulkheads and whatnot.