Coronavirus: COVID-19

[Imperial Good]

The underlying issue with protection equipment is that there is not enough production capability for because up until recently they were not needed in large volumes. Setting up production lines takes months, and if raw materials become a limiting factor it could even be years to add extra capacity. A lot of deaths have been the result of a lack of resources and people being unprepared for such an epidemic. Brought at an industrial scale the equipment is likely not even that expensive, just one cannot order any of it for the foreseeable future as all production capacity has already been sold or reserved.

However by far the biggest problem is people's ignorance. Even now many people fail to understand how dangerous the virus is and will think nothing of performing activities that both endanger themselves and others. All it takes is a small group of people to violate safe practices to cause hundreds of new infections.

[Alan Phipps]

@ mr.WHO: Self-quarantine is indeed compulsory where stated by the government as being necessary.

Of course some people lacking judgement could abuse local quarantine requirements, but the alternative of some authority applying a monitored quarantine would just be regarded as precautionary internment or imprisonment. That would further require special holding facilities and staff that do not exist and would potentially mix infected with uninfected 'inmates'. I don't think any traveller would agree to the imposition of any of that.

No, I would stay with clear rules leading to self-quarantining in preferred appropriate domestic or commercial premises as a more achievable and effective mechanism. (Let's face it, that's exactly what we did in the UK over April-June with most people that we suspected or even knew had Covid.)

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Respirators are needed in extreme cases for people who got a bad aerial infection.
If you're talking about gas masks or masks with specific filters (like lab masks for people working with carbon nanotubes), they're not really needed because filtered masks are enough in the case of coronavirus.

I just meant respirators. So you think they arent needed yet?

I Googed for one, to see what's the supply and what they cost; Google actually added special query for them.

Your search - buy N95 respirator - did not match any shopping results.

COVID-19 alert
Product availability may be limited, and we’ve removed results with excessive price increases. For the latest guidance on how to protect yourself and others, visit the World Health Organization’s (WHO) website.

It's an overkill if you're not a medical operator, apparently, or if you're not in areas with high risk of exposure. The USA, for example. (jk)

[Mightysword]

There has been something on my mind. I know at various points in the thread we had talked about government response, population, and even culture and their effect on the spread of the decease. But there is something else, perhaps even more important yet also extremely fundamental that I don't think has been looked into often enough: underlying condition, and how strong the population natural immunity is. If the difference outcome between countries like Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam vs those on the west can be attribute to the competence of the government's response and the cultural of the population awareness, than there is one particular country that stick out like a sore thump: Japan. If government response and population response are the only factors with all other thing hold equal, than Japan's situation make almost zero sense.

- High population density: check.
- Old population: check. (Oldest in the world in fact, 26%-28% vs 21%-23% of Italy).
- Incompetent government response: BIG check.

That last part is big. We all remember how as thing started exploding around the world the Japan government was pretty much in a denial state because they wanted to salvage the Olympic. If you think the US government is bad, than the Japan government was pretty much down right criminal.

When people talk about the culture, most focus on social behaviour. But as someome who study Japanese and the Japan culture, the most striking part about it is probably how healthy it is. I came across a lot of studies in the west promoting certain habits as a therapy or prophylactic treatment, I looked at Japan and those habit is pretty much natural day to day practice to them (and by that I don't mean mask). This had come up before, long before the outbreak but I think many professional had sounded off before that the American population is not very healthy. Our high standard of living and advance medicine help masking the reality. It has been years so I don't remember where is the source any more, but I remember a study from a medical journal that said something like this in its conclusion: American is actually a sick population, that will not fair well in the face of an outbreak.

[fiksal]

How do you even measure it let alone, define - what's a healthy level of a population?

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

You've got a point on this, but it's more about their health culture than natural immunity per se.
Or, not literally natural immunity, but as you mention the fact japanese are generally more healthy than, for example, American. They're healthier than Italian too, but here the big difference I think is mostly related to discipline: japanese - and actually east asian in general - are used to put a face mask on as soon as they get a cold, even if it's because of allergy (thus not infective). Italian just don't care too much about coughing or sneezing.
So, the fact they were already used to wearing masks mitigated a lot covid transmission and the fact they're healthy mitigated death rates.

How do you even measure it let alone, define - what's a healthy level of a population?

Mostly in two ways: life expectancy and chronic health issue incidence (e.g. cardiopathies, diabetes, ...).
Italy is good in that, Japan is better, USA not so much.

[Mightysword]

You've got a point on this, but it's more about their health culture than natural immunity per se.
Or, not literally natural immunity, but as you mention the fact japanese are generally more healthy than, for example, American. They're healthier than Italian too, but here the big difference I think is mostly related to discipline: japanese - and actually east asian in general - are used to put a face mask on as soon as they get a cold, even if it's because of allergy (thus not infective). Italian just don't care too much about coughing or sneezing.

When I say natural immunity, I don't mean by generic but the one built up through life style. And while I believe face mask helps, it can't be the only thing that make such a vast difference, because like I said, if we discount population inherent immunity Japan literally does not have anything else to go for it.

How do you even measure it let alone, define - what's a healthy level of a population?

Like I said, the last part of my post came from a medical journal, so if you want some scientific quantifier, feel free to research. I figure it's not even a rare type of research that is hard to find.

Using myself as an example, when I first arrived in the US I fully embraced the lifestyle here for over a decade, after all it's of a 'higher standard' so to speak comparing to what I'm used to. And I become a lot less healthy. There is something frustrating about gaining weight twice as fast when you only seem to eat half as much. And I also noticed my immune system were also a lot weaker, getting sick more often. Flu-shot? Never heard of that before coming here, and also didn't catch it as often before coming here whether I take the shot or not. It's not so much that I learnt it from the Japanese, more like rediscover. It helps me reflect that I had lost myself in the unhealthy lifestyle (which seems to the norm for people around me) and forgot how I used to live. In the last few years I went back to a more traditional model while adopting a few things I learnt about Japanese culture, and had become as healthy as I used to be if not more.

[Masterbagger]

The underlying issue with protection equipment is that there is not enough production capability for because up until recently they were not needed in large volumes. Setting up production lines takes months, and if raw materials become a limiting factor it could even be years to add extra capacity. A lot of deaths have been the result of a lack of resources and people being unprepared for such an epidemic. Brought at an industrial scale the equipment is likely not even that expensive, just one cannot order any of it for the foreseeable future as all production capacity has already been sold or reserved.

However by far the biggest problem is people's ignorance. Even now many people fail to understand how dangerous the virus is and will think nothing of performing activities that both endanger themselves and others. All it takes is a small group of people to violate safe practices to cause hundreds of new infections.

How dangerous the virus is depends on your age and health. Most people have little to fear from it. There is no shortage of protective placebos here. Everyone is selling masks. I can buy them at any gas station if I ever wanted one of my own. Many people are wearing them. Not properly, but making the gesture. There is zero enforcement of masking here when people are walking around with their noses exposed or the things positioned on the tip of their nose to make a huge gap on their cheeks they can breathe through or even on their chin doing nothing at all. I have never been challenged for not wearing one. These masks are not being worn as actual medical persons would wear them either. They are not being sanitized or discarded. A doctor would not wear the same mask for multiple patients. They throw them away. They are meant to trap bacteria and then be replaced with a sterile mask for the next patient. They aren't meant to be worn all day long. It's all a very stupid form of theater.

[Observe]

The whole point of everyone wearing a mask in public, is not to directly protect the wearer from getting infected, as much as it is to prevent someone who is already infected from spreading the virus to others. This only works if everyone wears one. Those who are not wearing a mask, are most likely those who are not taking other safety measures. They are the ones most likely to become infected and spread it to others by their lake of wearing a mask.

The longer people can avoid getting sick, the more likely there will be an array of treatments to mitigate the worst effects. Also, as we know, there is concern about hospitals becoming overloaded. This is already happening in Florida today.

[Masterbagger]

The whole point of everyone wearing a mask in public, is not to directly protect the wearer from getting infected, as much as it is to prevent someone who is already infected from spreading the virus to others. This only works if everyone wears one. Those who are not wearing a mask, are most likely those who are not taking other safety measures. They are the ones most likely to become infected and spread it to others by their lake of wearing a mask.

The longer people can avoid getting sick, the more likely there will be an array of treatments to mitigate the worst effects. Also, as we know, there is concern about hospitals becoming overloaded. This is already happening in Florida today.

Are asymptomatic people spreading the virus? That is who is being demanded to wear masks. The things are meant to stop you from panicking. They are meant to give you the illusion of power over this pandemic fear. There are two types of people here and they are those who have had bat flu and those who are going to have bat flu.

[fiksal]

Yes asymptomatic people are spreading the virus.
And obviously mildly symptomatic who refuse to wear masks do as well.

I assume you will take all evidence from China as a made up conspiracy, so will skip a bit

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-1595_article

However, cases of presymptomatic transmission have been reported from other countries before widespread community transmission occurred. A report from Germany documented infection of a German businessman after exposure to a mildly symptomatic colleague visiting from China (18). Before becoming symptomatic, this businessman exposed 2 other colleagues who subsequently received a COVID-19 diagnosis but did not have contact with the primary patient from China or any other known source. A report from Singapore described 7 COVID-19 clusters resulting from presymptomatic transmission; presymptomatic primary patients varied from persons with travel from high-incidence countries to persons exposed in the local community (19). All primary patients experienced distinct periods of initial exposure and presymptomatic close contact with secondary patients who had no other known exposure risks. The incubation periods for presymptomatic primary patients with distinct exposures ranged from 3 to 11 days; for presymptomatic primary patients with travel history to an area with active transmission, the time from last exposure to symptom onset ranged from >2 to >9 days.

Just first article I found that was not from media.

I also realize that you might think CDC is a liberal deep state group. But it was worth a shot.

[felter]

The whole point of everyone wearing a mask in public, is not to directly protect the wearer from getting infected, as much as it is to prevent someone who is already infected from spreading the virus to others. This only works if everyone wears one. Those who are not wearing a mask, are most likely those who are not taking other safety measures. They are the ones most likely to become infected and spread it to others by their lake of wearing a mask.

The longer people can avoid getting sick, the more likely there will be an array of treatments to mitigate the worst effects. Also, as we know, there is concern about hospitals becoming overloaded. This is already happening in Florida today.

That Ron DeSantis is a monster, he is in total denial and that denial is killing people, I honestly do believe he should be charged with murder as that is what he is doing, he is murdering his fellow Florida citizens through denial that anything is wrong and that there is a problem. Stupidity is not an excuse for murder.

[Vertigo 7]

The whole point of everyone wearing a mask in public, is not to directly protect the wearer from getting infected, as much as it is to prevent someone who is already infected from spreading the virus to others. This only works if everyone wears one. Those who are not wearing a mask, are most likely those who are not taking other safety measures. They are the ones most likely to become infected and spread it to others by their lake of wearing a mask.

The longer people can avoid getting sick, the more likely there will be an array of treatments to mitigate the worst effects. Also, as we know, there is concern about hospitals becoming overloaded. This is already happening in Florida today.

That Ron DeSantis is a monster, he is in total denial and that denial is killing people, I honestly do believe he should be charged with murder as that is what he is doing, he is murdering his fellow Florida citizens through denial that anything is wrong and that there is a problem. Stupidity is not an excuse for murder.

3rd degree homicide, arguably 2nd degree.

[Imperial Good]

How dangerous the virus is depends on your age and health. Most people have little to fear from it.

It is currently unknown how dangerous the virus truly is. Sure people can survive the immediate infection, but only time will tell if it leaves them with no long term health conditions. It is quite possible that getting infected could shorten life expectancy, especially given how it leaves the lungs scared in some patients as can be seen on X-ray images.

There is evidence to believe that initial exposure is a key factor to how badly one gets it. If a single virus particle lands on the lungs it is unlikely the infected person will develop serious symptoms. However if they get a huge exposure, for example a cough made by someone not wearing their mask properly who is infected, then the symptoms will likely be much more severe and potentially even life threatening. This is why so many medical workers have died due to it, since they had the highest initial exposure due to treating infectious patients. The possible cause for this is that one does not get truly infected if exposed to few virus particles as low level immune responses are sufficient to deal with the infection without the need for anti-bodies. On the other hand the infection can run rampant if the initial exposure is high and the body must combat it with anti-bodies to stand a chance. This also means that people who were exposed to the infection in a mild way do not have anti-bodies and hence are susceptible to becomming reinfected.

They aren't meant to be worn all day long. It's all a very stupid form of theater.

They are the best people have. Without them the virus would be completely out of control and potentially millions of people would die as a result.

Are asymptomatic people spreading the virus? That is who is being demanded to wear masks.

Yes asymptomatic people are a huge driving factor with the spread. By the time symptoms are visible the person has already been highly infectious for potentially days and could have unintentionally infected hundreds of people. Worse still is that some people never develop full blown symptoms.

There are two types of people here and they are those who have had bat flu and those who are going to have bat flu.

And the potentially 10% or more that could needlessly die from having it if it were left to run out of control.

That Ron DeSantis is a monster, he is in total denial and that denial is killing people, I honestly do believe he should be charged with murder as that is what he is doing, he is murdering his fellow Florida citizens through denial that anything is wrong and that there is a problem. Stupidity is not an excuse for murder.

Does not help that the president is actively trying to force that all spread prevention be lifted and encouraging people to violate any imposed by local state government in protest. If enough people demand they want to jump of a cliff there is little a government can do to stop them...

[Observe]

The whole point of everyone wearing a mask in public, is not to directly protect the wearer from getting infected, as much as it is to prevent someone who is already infected from spreading the virus to others. This only works if everyone wears one. Those who are not wearing a mask, are most likely those who are not taking other safety measures. They are the ones most likely to become infected and spread it to others by their lake of wearing a mask.

The longer people can avoid getting sick, the more likely there will be an array of treatments to mitigate the worst effects. Also, as we know, there is concern about hospitals becoming overloaded. This is already happening in Florida today.

Are asymptomatic people spreading the virus? That is who is being demanded to wear masks. The things are meant to stop you from panicking. They are meant to give you the illusion of power over this pandemic fear. There are two types of people here and they are those who have had bat flu and those who are going to have bat flu.

Yes asymptomatic people are spreading the virus. I wonder why you missed my points about slowing the rate of infection for the sake of preventing hospital overload and for time to develop more effective treatment regimes with possibly a vaccine? Those are the two key reasons for wearing masks, social distancing etc at this time. Why is that so hard to understand? I really would like to know.

[Masterbagger]

I wonder why you missed my points about slowing the rate of infection for the sake of preventing hospital overload and for time to develop more effective treatment regimes with possibly a vaccine? Those are the two key reasons for wearing masks, social distancing etc at this time. Why is that so hard to understand? I really would like to know.

I didn't miss your point. I am judging it against my own observation that "two weeks to slow the spread" turned into four months of bull. I was symptomatic months ago. I have not been since. I have been circulating in public more than you. This thing is over for me but you are clinging to it. If you aren't immune go hide in your house until it is over to your satisfaction. I am not here to appease you. I am not even clear on the legality of concealing my face while I carry a firearm in public.

[Vertigo 7]

Virus can't touch me! I'll shoot it!
https://youtu.be/YZ1glxX1BiQ?t=62

[fiksal]

I was symptomatic months ago. I have not been since. I have been circulating in public more than you.

So you after part of the problem. We can make numbers of infections and deaths in Texas into a badge of honor for you. Would you like that, or too much?


Also I am not surprised in a slightest

[Masterbagger]

I was symptomatic months ago. I have not been since. I have been circulating in public more than you.

So you after part of the problem. We can make numbers of infections and deaths in Texas into a badge of honor for you. Would you like that, or too much?


Also I am not surprised in a slightest

I don't think you know how this works. I was deliberately injected with smallpox, anthrax, and types of hepatitis too. You should probably just stay home. You never know what sort of awful illness the people around you have antibodies for.

[fiksal]

I don't think you know how this works. I was deliberately injected with smallpox, anthrax, and types of hepatitis too. You should probably just stay home. You never know what sort of awful illness the people around you have antibodies for.

I don't live in Texas, I am quite okay to go outside. Thanks for insincere concern.

So do you see your family often? Any elderly family, young with weaken immunity? You should keep us updated on how is you fake immunity to the virus working out, for them, (of course, not for you)


10k daily cases? Tick tock