Coronavirus: COVID-19

[felter]

So everything is going as planned things are flattening out and everything is looking good, well according to Mike Pence that is. I don't know where they are getting the things are looking good and everything is flattening out, because the data that is being supplied is most certainly not showing this to be the case.

Is there no law suits against the Trump government for this fiasco, there is one in the UK over the (mis)handling of the care homes, which is probably why Johnson is trying to shift the blame for that fiasco. But America, the land of the sue or be sued, surely there is some kind of law suit on the go. 132,041 deaths so far, so there has to be more than a few with a grudge about the way Trump, pence and the rest of those cohorts have screwed this royally up.

I managed to mess that up, I quoted myself instead of editing myself.

[mr.WHO]

Is there no law suits against the Trump government for this fiasco, there is one in the UK over the (mis)handling of the care homes, which is probably why Johnson is trying to shift the blame for that fiasco. But America, the land of the sue or be sued, surely there is some kind of law suit on the go. 132,041 deaths so far, so there has to be more than a few with a grudge about the way Trump, pence and the rest of those cohorts have screwed this royally up.

Aren't care home under local or state mamanement in USA? Do you really think Trump/Pence personally put care homes under risk? Then same should be said about Governors and Mayors.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

I think it's safer to wear them for a little longer. Perhaps at least until the end of the month (in Europe).
In the US it's safer if you stay home, in theory. There are so many cases you cannot really tell how long is going to take to be safe across the pool (did I use it right?).

What I wonder if we should switch to something thicker to provide better protection against the droplets or whatever the virus is floating in. If this isnt enough and one can still infect other people, we may want to start switch from these masks to something thicker sooner than later.

Mask thickness isn't really relevant, mask filters are.
The standard surgical mask (the light one) avoids your saliva and mucus (which contain the virus) going out: it is important wearing it if you have covid, because it limits a lot transmission. It's not so effective protecting covid-free people from infected ones, basically because the virus is smaller then the pores in the mask.
FP2/3, instead, also protects against possible infection.

I think across the pool is fine, I've heard "across the pond" before too

The pond! It was the pond!

[Vertigo 7]

Is there no law suits against the Trump government for this fiasco, there is one in the UK over the (mis)handling of the care homes, which is probably why Johnson is trying to shift the blame for that fiasco. But America, the land of the sue or be sued, surely there is some kind of law suit on the go. 132,041 deaths so far, so there has to be more than a few with a grudge about the way Trump, pence and the rest of those cohorts have screwed this royally up.

Aren't care home under local or state mamanement in USA? Do you really think Trump/Pence personally put care homes under risk? Then same should be said about Governors and Mayors.

That would be a fine argument if all of the deaths were in assisted living homes, or even most of them. I know, I know, you found one thing and you think you found a "gotcha!" moment, but you didn't.

Stick to Poland, brah. You're not good at understanding what's going on in the US.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Well, if you tilt your head to the left, the curve is indeed flat...

So, I can report as always the Italian situation with care homes: there are indeed a lot of law sues on managers and on regional institutions (because healthcare is mostly under region control, not under central state management). President of Lombardia Fontana has been questioned, even if he isn't under investigation for now.

Nobody but the political opposition is trying to (legally) blame the central government about the mess. I think in the US it's going to be the same: it's unlikely Trump will be under investigation, but the political / electoral fallout is going to be inevitable. Too many deaths, too many lost jobs in a country were the president is often viewed as a close-to-almighty figure, meaning he's got a lot of power compared to other democracies.

(Minor spelling edit)

[CBJ]

Stick to Poland, brah. You're not good at understanding what's going on in the US.

If you think someone outside the US doesn't understand what's going on there then you are free to explain it, but it's not up to you to decide that they cannot participate in the discussion.

[mr.WHO]

I wonder,if in the long run, countries that failed now might better prepared than the one that are successful (could go into false sense of security).

The resonable me would like to think that ALL countries are making notes and updating contingency plans, but I'm afraid we'll go to business as usuall in next 1-2 years.
Otherwise we would be already prepared after Swine an Bird flu.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

I wonder,if in the long run, countries that failed now might better prepared than the one that are successful (could go into false sense of security).

The resonable me would like to think that ALL countries are making notes and updating contingency plans, but I'm afraid we'll go to business as usuall in next 1-2 years.
Otherwise we would be already prepared after Swine an Bird flu.

The problem is the people: are they going to feel "safe" (underestimating the risk) after an "easier" lockdown (e.g. Germany compared to Italy) or are they following contingency plans?

[felter]

I do think this is funny, seemingly the infection rate for the median for the week up to July 5th is pretty low, I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact they removed two days worth of infections when they fixed their so called factual numbers. The week up to July 5th works out at 390.4 infections per day, but if you do it for the past 6 days up to July 8th which eliminates those two days it works out at 537.6 infections per day. Guess what numbers they are using to pat themselves on the back, wonder what the excuse will be when they do their next count.

[Alan Phipps]

@ felter: I don't buy into that conspiracy one little bit.

The adjustment was made to the UK's running total figure for recorded infections since start of outbreak and was quite openly stated as removing discovered past duplications of the exact same people having been reported under both of the two different input systems in prior data. Now they have the tools and means to avoid doing that and so it was hopefully a one-time adjustment.

That adjustment has no bearing whatsoever on the ongoing numbers of new cases reported daily or weekly; the only reason that the figures for two days every week seem lower than the others is because administration and reporting of infections and deaths is somewhat delayed over weekends, but the delayed figures always catch up over the following couple of working days.

I trust the NHS, scientists and the independent National Office of Statistics to do their jobs and they have little to do with politics and agendas. Just be glad that the weekly infections figures are still trending lower despite wider testing and the ongoing easing measures for the UK's lockdown.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Massive testing and lower number of cases are good, but 300-400 daily are still a lot of cases. In Italy we're at 100-150, considering around 1/3 of those coming from abroad can give some optimism for the near future.

[mr.WHO]

Massive testing and lower number of cases are good, but 300-400 daily are still a lot of cases. In Italy we're at 100-150, considering around 1/3 of those coming from abroad can give some optimism for the near future.

I wouldn't be so optimistic - as long as there is international travel and other countries still have outbreak, it can return easily.
The whole issue wouldn't get out of China in not the modern international travel. There are people who visit 3 continents and several countries in a week.

I recall that after 9/11 there was total security overhaul on airports.
COVID should do the same for all international travel - better health checks, better tracking, possible time/amount limit to how many countries you can travel per week.
It will hit air industry badly, but better one industry than whole economy.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Massive testing and lower number of cases are good, but 300-400 daily are still a lot of cases. In Italy we're at 100-150, considering around 1/3 of those coming from abroad can give some optimism for the near future.

I wouldn't be so optimistic - as long as there is international travel and other countries still have outbreak, it can return easily.
The whole issue wouldn't get out of China in not the modern international travel. There are people who visit 3 continents and several countries in a week.

I recall that after 9/11 there was total security overhaul on airports.
COVID should do the same for all international travel - better health checks, better tracking, possible time/amount limit to how many countries you can travel per week.
It will hit air industry badly, but better one industry than whole economy.

The fact is covid was probably around Europe since november (or even before: there have been severe pneumonia cases in autumn that, in hindsight, could have been due to covid), so I don't really think it went sideways because of China only (even if they likely delayed telling the world about the problem).

[fiksal]

Mask thickness isn't really relevant, mask filters are.
The standard surgical mask (the light one) avoids your saliva and mucus (which contain the virus) going out: it is important wearing it if you have covid, because it limits a lot transmission. It's not so effective protecting covid-free people from infected ones, basically because the virus is smaller then the pores in the mask.
FP2/3, instead, also protects against possible infection.

I started typing asking what those numbers mean, but then googled myself
https://fastlifehacks.com/n95-vs-ffp/


so still I wonder when is the time for the 'respirators'? Or they are too expensive / too few to supply to most people.

Is there no law suits against the Trump government for this fiasco, there is one in the UK over the (mis)handling of the care homes, which is probably why Johnson is trying to shift the blame for that fiasco. But America, the land of the sue or be sued, surely there is some kind of law suit on the go. 132,041 deaths so far, so there has to be more than a few with a grudge about the way Trump, pence and the rest of those cohorts have screwed this royally up.

Aren't care home under local or state mamanement in USA? Do you really think Trump/Pence personally put care homes under risk? Then same should be said about Governors and Mayors.

Personally, I'd need to sit down to filter out lots of info about what they've done, what they didnt do, what the critics say they should do. Then compare response to say, Canada. To say anything accurately.

However, conceptually, federal government exists in US to organize inter-State effort. They are the ones who hold all the cards, and a lot of money - they can open up labs oversees studying the virus, they can get foreign help negotiated, they can coordinate effort, they can work with those responsible for dealing with pandemics, make sure CDCs findings and advice is applied. Yet, the current federal government flat out said to its people that the virus is not dangerous, and it'll go away. I dont care if they keep reversing their position, - they said it - it's in stone. And those words were followed with inaction, critique, and flat out interference with people who tried to deal with the situation. Our vice president walks into Mayo Clinic without a mask on, endangering every single person there.

US is not tough on crime, no matter what it claims. If US were, what I said above would be a crime.

We also had similar discussions on the forum before - about the role of US government, and how local governments actually have better hold of events on the ground. They for sure do. And if that's really how we as Americans want to deal with the pandemic (which I'd say - is r*******) - sure lets do that - that means we defund Federal government entirely - as it's entirely useless and even more - it's actually working to spread the disease rather than contain it. Every State is its own country. Close the borders, let Blue states recover and let Red states do what they do best. We really dont need Texans and Floridians leaving their States, ever.

Rant over.


EDIT: and what's so easy about it, I dont need to even google this hard.
here's one criminal / traitor / swamp representative
https://truthout.org/articles/betsy-dev ... cket-ship/

ecretary of Education Betsy DeVos reportedly told U.S. governors in a Tuesday conference call that the health risks surrounding the coronavirus pandemic should not deter them from reopening schools, because other activities like riding a bike or attaining enough velocity to escape the Earth’s atmosphere also involve taking risks.

“Education leaders need to examine real data and weigh risk,” DeVos was quoted as saying. “Risk is involved in everything we do, from learning to ride a bike to riding a rocket into space and everything in between.”

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

I started typing asking what those numbers mean, but then googled myself
https://fastlifehacks.com/n95-vs-ffp/

<3

so still I wonder when is the time for the 'respirators'? Or they are too expensive / too few to supply to most people.

Respirators are needed in extreme cases for people who got a bad aerial infection.
If you're talking about gas masks or masks with specific filters (like lab masks for people working with carbon nanotubes), they're not really needed because filtered masks are enough in the case of coronavirus.

[Alan Phipps]

@ mr.WHO: " .. COVID should do the same for all international travel - *better health checks*, .." Currently, there is no check that can tell that you have recently become infected and are incubating the virus but have not yet developed symptoms and have yet to become infectious. Those follow-on changes usually happen 2-10 days after first infection. This was the purpose for the original 14 days of self-quarantine after travel.

If there were such a quick and accurate 'recently-infected' check available then I am certain that the travel hubs would already be using it.

[Vertigo 7]

Ahh yes, that's what we need TSA to do. Collect blood and urine samples before letting you pass the terminal check points.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

There's also that guy which, despite being found positive, refused to be put in quarantine and kept going to work and to social meetings.

L'uomo - segnalato ieri alla Procura perchè si è recato a vari eventi dopo che gli era imposta la quarantena a seguito del tampone positivo - risponderebbe bene alle cure. Il cittadino serbo, considerato il paziente zero nella trasmissione del contagio, è morto mercoledì scorso di Coronavirus nel suo Paese.

That barely translates to

The man - reported yesterday (in this case it's July, 4th) to police because he went to several public events after imposing quarantine because of his positive tests - is gaining health following the treatment. The serbian citizen, considered patient zero, died wednesday in his own country.

At least five new cases have been reported after this businessman going to work and, generally speaking, not staying at home.

[mr.WHO]

@ mr.WHO: " .. COVID should do the same for all international travel - *better health checks*, .." Currently, there is no check that can tell that you have recently become infected and are incubating the virus but have not yet developed symptoms and have yet to become infectious. Those follow-on changes usually happen 2-10 days after first infection. This was the purpose for the original 14 days of self-quarantine after travel.

If there were such a quick and accurate 'recently-infected' check available then I am certain that the travel hubs would already be using it.

You're right, but this means only 14 days COMPULSORY quarantine would tick all safety tickboxes. Self-quarantine is so-so.
There is plenty of stories in Poland, about people who should be under quarantine, casually strolling to nearest liquor store for "essential supplies" of liquids.

[fiksal]

Respirators are needed in extreme cases for people who got a bad aerial infection.
If you're talking about gas masks or masks with specific filters (like lab masks for people working with carbon nanotubes), they're not really needed because filtered masks are enough in the case of coronavirus.

I just meant respirators. So you think they arent needed yet?

I Googed for one, to see what's the supply and what they cost; Google actually added special query for them.

Your search - buy N95 respirator - did not match any shopping results.

COVID-19 alert
Product availability may be limited, and we’ve removed results with excessive price increases. For the latest guidance on how to protect yourself and others, visit the World Health Organization’s (WHO) website.