Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum
Spot on. The license you purchase to play rebirth will be permanently tied to steam.Shimrod wrote:One of the areas where Egosoft has been brilliant in the past is patching away the CD check after a year or two.Protect: Steam helps to stop piracy as it is also a form of DRM, that DOESN'T require the disc in the drive.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Steamworks will never be patched out of the game.
What crazy restrictions? This is where our discussions start to break down. Steam isn't, IMO, imposing crazy restrictions. Its a content delivery platform that runs on your system. It allows infinite installs of your games to any number of systems(restricted only by the developer's own DRM). It provides friends lists, game listings, community groups, chat services, multiplayer server browsers as well as offering automatic update delivery for games you own.Asmodae wrote:Seriously? You can square in your mind the fact we don't need a thing with allowing crazy restrictions on it? I think you undervalue our culture too much. And you underestimate how easily those restrictive frameworks (once entrenched) migrate to other industries.
But your never ending car industry analogies are much more apt right? Because as everyone knows cars are very similar to software.Totally irrelevant. Different circumstances, different reasoning (both for and against), different industry.
You keep proving my point about paranoia. They just implemented a trading option and say that they are looking at ways to extend it to full games but unless it works exactly like how you want it to work, nothing counts.Talk is cheap, actions count. My prediction is we won't see this feature ever as a part of Steam as it exists today. And even if we do, what if I want to sell my game to someone who doesn't use steam? Or just loan it to someone?
How big has the used game PC market ever truly been? Publishers are a heck of a lot more worried about restricting used console game sales because they are a lot harder to copy.What they do now matters, and right now every new publishing scheme that comes out (steam, origin, etc.) is targeted at restricting the used game market. Just because you don't want to believe doesn't make it not true.
Exactly, how I feel. I have been a Steam user, and I like it despite its shortcomings (poor Customer Support), but I will defend my rights to death if I have to (the right to play a standalone game free of Steam).henkbein wrote:I wonder why so many people put their trust (and money) in Steam.
Steam is managed by a very small company (Valve Corporation).
Why put so much confidence in such a small company ?
Steam can be hacked, Valve can be taken over (by bigger companies with new rules), ...
Most Steam users seem unaware of their customer rights.
Let me elaborate. You have exactly one right: cancel your account.
If your Steam-product does not work as expected, or new rules are introduced, or .... : no problema, just cancel your account. I'm sure you will feel better
My advice to Valve Corporation:
Allow game developers to mark their game as 'Single-Player' in Steam.
This means:
1 A once-only online DRM verification.
2 After verification the Steam client defaults to offline mode
3 The Steam Client - when started by the user - shows options: 'Check for updates' and 'Check for new DLC'
Also, Steam should not show up in my system tray. My computer really does not need it to run. The audacity to even show up there ...
Ok ... i rest my case.
I've enumerated them multiple times, you just don't consider them restrictions. That doesn't mean they aren't restrictions to many people.Slashman wrote:What crazy restrictions?Asmodae wrote:Seriously? You can square in your mind the fact we don't need a thing with allowing crazy restrictions on it? I think you undervalue our culture too much. And you underestimate how easily those restrictive frameworks (once entrenched) migrate to other industries.
Strawman argument. I've never said that it is irrational to appreciate or even value the things steam provides. In fact everything YOU like about Steam, I ALSO like about Steam. But there are things I dislike about steam that outweigh the advantages to me (The ability to retroactively confiscate my property being the biggest one). Especially when I consider the long term consequences to the health of the games industry.Slashman wrote: Obviously...but to act like its totally irrational to appreciate this type of service for any reason is, in itself, slightly nuts.
You're acting like I'm against digital distribution. I am not. I LIKE it, I just don't like all the strings that currently come with it. Call me when those go away and I'll never kill a tree/CD again! I also understand that there are those for whom digital distribution effectively denies them access to the game, which is also a valid objection to Steam. I'm just fortunate enough for that not to affect me.Slashman wrote: The point is that there are always people who fight against every big change in an industry. It doesn't automatically make them right and the industry 'evil'.
Maybe, but you attribute misrepresentations to my arguments that I did not assert. Most commonly you don't seem to understand that those against Steam are making a risk/rewards value judgement based on different criteria than you.Slashman wrote:I'm not on a crusade to get anyone to like Steam, but there have been a lot of misrepresentations of the service and its restrictions/advantages.
Ah, ad homs again? It's not paranoia, I've seen several online services go out of business/get sold and the customers just lost their stuff. Notably the Microsoft music service that sold people songs very much like Steam's model with authentication, ripped them all away when it closed down. There's been a number of others, photo services, backup service, etc. No industry is immune to change, in fact that's the only guarantee in life. Call it paranoia if you like, I call it being able to learn from history.Slashman wrote: You keep proving my point about paranoia.
Why yes, unless they address my concerns they... didn't address my concerns. Saying they are thinking about maybe doing something along these lines is fine, I wait with baited breath for what they do. I don't have my hopes up though, I've been watching the industry for a long time. (And I'm not going to get into the digital goods discussion here)Slashman wrote: They just implemented a trading option and say that they are looking at ways to extend it to full games but unless it works exactly like how you want it to work, nothing counts.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Speculation aside, consumer rights are consumer rights. In an ideal world they'd never need to be exercised. Just because a right is never exercised doesn't mean it is pointless. And it doesn't mean that it's ok to remove the right.Slashman wrote:How big has the used game PC market ever truly been? Publishers are a heck of a lot more worried about restricting used console game sales because they are a lot harder to copy.
Exactly.Shimrod wrote: I'm pretty sure they're planning on shipping boxed copies of a Steamworks integrated Rebirth. If that is the case the distribution costs would be the same regardless of whether the DVD version was Steamworks integrated.
It seems unlikely that the cost of putting a disk check on a non Steam DVD version or hosting patches on the website is going to outweigh the cost in lost sales.
apricotslice wrote:Unless the cost of the disc check is that they don't get as big a backhander from steam as not releasing a version with a disc check. (for instance an extra 5% of sales or whatever).Shimrod wrote:Exactly.KloHunt3r wrote: I'm pretty sure they're planning on shipping boxed copies of a Steamworks integrated Rebirth. If that is the case the distribution costs would be the same regardless of whether the DVD version was Steamworks integrated.
It seems unlikely that the cost of putting a disk check on a non Steam DVD version or hosting patches on the website is going to outweigh the cost in lost sales.
Wut? Not true - my 360 doesn't demand being online for anything except online content (and then it just whinges it's not online when you first sign in). The exception is if you are playing downloaded content (eg, an Arcade game or DLC) on a machine other than the one on which it was originally downloaded.perkint wrote:Actually, most console games now expect (but possibly not require) to go online during installation & startup to check for updates, etc.
Yep it's true. Steamworks enabled games requires Steam to run in the background at all times while you play.BoomerM6 wrote:PLEASE tell me if this true ? I have read somewhere that even if you buy the physical box of X Rebirth you will be forced to install steam "shitnees" on your computer to be able to PLAY, i mean not just "activation", but to PLAY ! This is true ?
They could get taken over and if they were you have no idea what it may or may not change, because we don't know who'd be doing the taking-over or why.Texhnolyzed wrote:And they won't be taken over, nor would it change anything if they did. And if you are careless, it sure is easy to get hacked.
What exactly gives you the right to mark arguments against Steam as "laughable", "desparate", "uninformed"?Texhnolyzed wrote:The whole "Steam Spies on us!" thing is blown way out of proportion. It's just a desperate try to find bad things about Steam, since there are close to none nowadays. Same for the whole AGB crap.
"to install steam is to limit our freedom of choice, expression etc " Laughable. Just how desperate are you people to find reasons to make yourselves believe that Steam is bad?
"I wonder why so many people put their trust (and money) in Steam.
Steam is managed by a very small company (Valve Corporation).
Why put so much confidence in such a small company ?
Steam can be hacked, Valve can be taken over (by bigger companies with new rules), "
Valve is very small? That really shows how much you know. And they won't be taken over, nor would it change anything if they did. And if you are careless, it sure is easy to get hacked.
Feature request: paint jobs on custom starts
