Pilots skill

[Raevyan]

I think changing the system to a well known experience point system without RNG would help a lot. So people can see that their pilots do make some progress and how long it takes to level up.

As I said earlier in the thread, it's done the way it is for a reason: because of the huge number of NPCs and skills that the game is tracking.

Well, the too many npc‘s wasn’t a problem in Rebirth. I mean where is the difference to the current crew system? Crew is just a slider in X4. To me it makes no difference if I have a slider from 1-20 or just 1. Does the number of crew really have any gameplay reasons? If the massive amounts of npc and skill is a problem then reduce the number.

[Accuracy]

I think changing the system to a well known experience point system without RNG would help a lot. So people can see that their pilots do make some progress and how long it takes to level up.

As I said earlier in the thread, it's done the way it is for a reason: because of the huge number of NPCs and skills that the game is tracking.

Well, the too many npc‘s wasn’t a problem in Rebirth. I mean where is the difference to the current crew system? Crew is just a slider in X4. To me it makes no difference if I have a slider from 1-20 or just 1. Does the number of crew really have any gameplay reasons? If the massive amounts of npc and skill is a problem then reduce the number.

It is a silly argument anyway. If we are talking about a structure that handles levels for each crew - I doubt it would need to have more than 24 bytes per crew member. You can be even more minimalistic and decrease that by half at least.
Considering that ship models are literally megabytes big, this wouldn't even make a dent in the memory.

[Raevyan]

That's one of the most, if not the most, advanced trading behaviour, which lets you fire-and-forget your trader to make credits efficiently on its own.

I don’t really get the reasoning behind that point. What is the difference between an auto trader compared to a station trader? I can build a station as simple as a dock, a cross and storage, assign any ware. A manager and traders. The whole process is fully automated and the only thing I have to do is to set it up. It’s not even a huge upfront investment. Building the station is trivial and just a waiting game, transfer money and wait then assign manager and traders. The manager also levels way faster than anything else in the game so you get 4 gate range pretty fast. Fully automated without the need to train any pilot. Even Distribute Wares is, in my opinion, better because it only requires a 2 star pilot and has no range limitations.

You are also able to get 10million credits right at the beginning of any game start within the first 15minutes. That’s enough to fund station building beyond just storage and dock.

[dtpsprt]

As I said earlier in the thread, it's done the way it is for a reason: because of the huge number of NPCs and skills that the game is tracking.

So tracking it is... then I don't see a problem, it checks what they do and applies a "lottery". On the proposed change it checks what they do and applies a fixed algorithm. Since the algorithm is written once and needs to be loaded once (when the game starts) it does not even require the (feeble indeed) resources of the RNG that goes to work every time someone does something (too much feeble aka too many NPC's becomes a bit of significant doesn't it?).

[dtpsprt]

I have an eerie feeling that we are close to a XY problem. Not quite, but close.
What is the fun to be had (when you have credits)?

I took a trip to this address and was really astounded. Then again I shouldn't be. People who work in computing not able to work a problem backwards!!! What can I say? Signs of the times we live in (Windows being a fine example of this)...

Then again if people (in general) were able to do this, I wouldn't have made the money I did for doing just that (sort of Dal Busta but in real life)...

EDIT: As for the fun to be had, I will have to refer you to Marquise de Sadde. He wrote quite a few books (in prison) on the subject, most known of them (became a movie) 120 days in Sodom.

[Alm888]

As I said earlier in the thread, it's done the way it is for a reason: because of the huge number of NPCs and skills that the game is tracking.

I honestly can not understand this reasoning.
The game already is performing a check (firing a subroutine) for each and every NPC on "level-up" condition. Using "i++" on each occasion (I believe CPUs have dedicated routines for fast increments) is less taxing than invoking "rand()" function and comparing its results with those of some obscure exponential formula.

Just change current 15 limit to something like 65535 and set thresholds for attaining "stars", like you are going with "reputation" right now, and you are good to go. No need for gambling.

As it is right now, a player will have hundreds of ships before she/he is able to "train" even one 3★ pilot. Luck-based systems work decent on big numbers (like "service crew" of CVs), but pilots/captains are not the case.

And if you insist that the current system is "working", then may I ask you a question? Why are the AI factions getting 4★ pilots from the get-go? Why they are exempted of this gambling? Maybe it is because otherwise the Galaxy would be filled with complete morons (2★ at best)? So, you have "boosted" AI factions in order to circumvent the problem, but have left players to deal with it themselves.

As long as the current luck-based system remains players will be cheesing the system, because the "training vs. capital" system is not balanced and is vastly skewed towards "capital" with almost no "training".

[Raevyan]

I‘ve got 32b in my account and I would be happy to spend some on 3+ star pilots. The problem is I haven’t even found a single one that has more than 1.5 stars in more than 3h of searching stations... I’m at a point where I need lots of skilled pilots to distribute wares across 5-10 sectors using auto miners, auto traders and distribute wares. I simply cannot do that because it takes ages to get the amount of pilots I would need, even at late game. It would be even harder if I kill all xenons and wouldn’t be able to abuse xenon gate defense to level fighters...

Then when I finally got a 3 star pilot he might get blown up an hour later. I can’t even assign escorts to protect them because they won’t stay in formation. Instead the faster ships are flying ahead to the destination leaving the escorted ship unprotected. This makes the slow leveling system even worse.

[dan1101]

My take on this, I think pilot levels could be a fun mechanic, but the X4 system is way too cumbersome and time-consuming. IMO if you buy a ship on a high preset you should at least be getting 3 or 4 star pilots. After wasting way too much precious gaming time trying to level up pilots I just use a mod to level them up, and I don't feel bad about it. I get to actually play the parts of the game I enjoy like exploration, building stations, missions, and combat instead of going through all the hassle to upgrade and manage pilots a tiny bit at a time.

[Kosta88]

I've had it... where do I get the mod to make my pilots higher ranked?

[Falcrack]

I've had it... where do I get the mod to make my pilots higher ranked?

Instead of a mod to make pilots higher ranked, I find a good one is "Autotrader & Autominer Skill Tweaks". This mod simply lowers the bar a bit in terms of allowing lower level pilots to autotrade and automine, without touching their rate of gaining stars. With this mod, most newly hired pilots are capable of autotrading, though at beginner levels their range is only 1 or 2 sectors.

[dtpsprt]

I've had it... where do I get the mod to make my pilots higher ranked?

Another very good mod is JP_Another Explorer V2. The pilots explore sectors really quick (like they did in X3) and gain experience doing so. They get from 2 to 4 stars in about 3 sectors...

[Kosta88]

I‘ve got 32b in my account and I would be happy to spend some on 3+ star pilots. The problem is I haven’t even found a single one that has more than 1.5 stars in more than 3h of searching stations... I’m at a point where I need lots of skilled pilots to distribute wares across 5-10 sectors using auto miners, auto traders and distribute wares. I simply cannot do that because it takes ages to get the amount of pilots I would need, even at late game. It would be even harder if I kill all xenons and wouldn’t be able to abuse xenon gate defense to level fighters...

Then when I finally got a 3 star pilot he might get blown up an hour later. I can’t even assign escorts to protect them because they won’t stay in formation. Instead the faster ships are flying ahead to the destination leaving the escorted ship unprotected. This makes the slow leveling system even worse.

Is your game modded?

[Raevyan]

I‘ve got 32b in my account and I would be happy to spend some on 3+ star pilots. The problem is I haven’t even found a single one that has more than 1.5 stars in more than 3h of searching stations... I’m at a point where I need lots of skilled pilots to distribute wares across 5-10 sectors using auto miners, auto traders and distribute wares. I simply cannot do that because it takes ages to get the amount of pilots I would need, even at late game. It would be even harder if I kill all xenons and wouldn’t be able to abuse xenon gate defense to level fighters...

Then when I finally got a 3 star pilot he might get blown up an hour later. I can’t even assign escorts to protect them because they won’t stay in formation. Instead the faster ships are flying ahead to the destination leaving the escorted ship unprotected. This makes the slow leveling system even worse.

Is your game modded?

No

[dtpsprt]

I‘ve got 32b in my account and I would be happy to spend some on 3+ star pilots. The problem is I haven’t even found a single one that has more than 1.5 stars in more than 3h of searching stations... I’m at a point where I need lots of skilled pilots to distribute wares across 5-10 sectors using auto miners, auto traders and distribute wares. I simply cannot do that because it takes ages to get the amount of pilots I would need, even at late game. It would be even harder if I kill all xenons and wouldn’t be able to abuse xenon gate defense to level fighters...

Then when I finally got a 3 star pilot he might get blown up an hour later. I can’t even assign escorts to protect them because they won’t stay in formation. Instead the faster ships are flying ahead to the destination leaving the escorted ship unprotected. This makes the slow leveling system even worse.

Is your game modded?

What Rene describes is the normal situation of the game and the reason people are complaining (both here and on Steam forum). As far as I am concerned depending skill progress of anybody in luck (RNG) should just be out of the question (and thrown out of the window). There should be "sound" criteria for skill progress (no mater what the devs say, it's the same if not less task for the CPU) no matter how hard they might be, then we (the players) would know what we need to do. Still Egosoft insists on RNG, only willing to "tweak" it a bit.

EDIT: PS if Rene's game was moded then there would be no complain about skill progress (you just use one more mod for it, there are many, depending on what you like or need).

[Raevyan]

I don’t know maybe we just need more 6-15 page threads regarding pilot skill system until someone at Ego starts to think about something that makes more sense.

I’m fine that, in early game, it’s not as easy but making credits in X4 is extremely easy and there are way better and faster ways to make more money than auto trade. Even sector mine will make way more money than auto trade and it’s available from the beginning.

Sure I got 4 traders filled with 3 star overall pilots in my save. CBJ always brings up the argument that automation should yield in slower xp gains. Well how did I level those 80 pilots? I built 90 Chimera and put them in 3 fleets of 30 and let them defend invulnerable Khaak stations that constantly spawn ships out of thin air and then it’s just a Long waiting game. Sure it took some resources but this is trivial once you got a wharf module up and running. There is also almost no risk in loosing a ship, because I just threw enough at it. Even if I would loose one, I don’t care anymore. I just throw more at it. Fully automated with minimal effort involved. Also when I switch out the 3 star pilots in batches, I just sell the ships and build new ones. That’s way less hassle to deal with.

[Kosta88]

EDIT: PS if Rene's game was moded then there would be no complain about skill progress (you just use one more mod for it, there are many, depending on what you like or need).

I was just wondering because of 32bil. Actually I would like to achieve that too, but right now I am quite stuck. I built couple of stations, and somewhat stuck. They did sell for a while, not my miners are stuck (like all shimmering on one place), factories have stopped working due to missing goods, one has lots of goods, but nowhere to sell (it wasn't actually meant to sell to others but was meant to support my future fabs). I am kinda sick of the bugs I keep encountering. Pilots not advancing, but even if they were, there is a question if they would act better. That is why I wanted to test it with the mod - right now my ships pilot keeps banging into objects, like gates or stations often. I wonder if 5* pilot would stop that and fly better, for instance.

[dan1101]

I've had it... where do I get the mod to make my pilots higher ranked?

I use this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2080679250

It looks complicated but it's not. It adds a default action "Give me experience", once the ship executes that action it goes away, your pilot gets 5 stars, and the default action reverts to "Hold Position."

I use on my capital ships, traders, and miners so they will actually function competently.

[dtpsprt]

I was just wondering because of 32bil. Actually I would like to achieve that too, but right now I am quite stuck. I built couple of stations, and somewhat stuck. They did sell for a while, not my miners are stuck (like all shimmering on one place), factories have stopped working due to missing goods, one has lots of goods, but nowhere to sell (it wasn't actually meant to sell to others but was meant to support my future fabs). I am kinda sick of the bugs I keep encountering. Pilots not advancing, but even if they were, there is a question if they would act better. That is why I wanted to test it with the mod - right now my ships pilot keeps banging into objects, like gates or stations often. I wonder if 5* pilot would stop that and fly better, for instance.

• The moment you built your Warf, billions start coming in... no problem there (getting to the 400-500 mil that is the cost to buy blueprints, built the warf and first supplies for ships is).

• The behaviour of your miners and stations has to do with your standing orders (trade orders) and, maybe, the Station Manger skills.

• And no (a huge big no), pilot experience does not make them fly better. They respond a bit faster in combat, that's all, which makes it more ludicrous to "lock" certain features like autotrading, expert automining behind skills that offer nothing else to the pilot or the player. There is a (again) small difference if a Fleet is commanded by a 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 star, which makes demand for such high star captains (to command the Fleets that the lack of Jump Drive makes you have) another "whining" (by Egosoft "standards") point for us common mortals (albeit loyal paying customers).

[GCU Grey Area]

I built couple of stations, and somewhat stuck. They did sell for a while, not my miners are stuck (like all shimmering on one place), factories have stopped working due to missing goods, one has lots of goods, but nowhere to sell (it wasn't actually meant to sell to others but was meant to support my future fabs).

If your production capacity has exceeded local demand recommend building one or more trade stations (i.e. just docks + storage) up to 5 gates away. Configure some freighters to only transport wares between your stations & a bunch more to sell from that trade station. Depending on placement can almost double the number of potential customers. When I do this I also blacklist sectors so the trade station freighters don't compete with freighters selling from the main production station(s).

[Raevyan]

• The moment you built your Warf, billions start coming in... no problem there (getting to the 400-500 mil that is the cost to buy blueprints, built the warf and first supplies for ships is).

You only need ~150m to get a S/M fab + storage + dock + blueprints for a S Fighter + credits for resources going. But yeah at this point it’s just a matter of how well you supply the wharf with resources which limits gaining credits.

I’d also say that I can earn that 150m faster than having 10 Autotraders doing their thing...And at that point the Auto trader already became irrelevant.