Will we be able to navigate large capital ships by ourselves in X4?

[Alandauron]

Community want to se X4 and not XR2. This one of reasons why Ego decided to go with X4...

Yup, when the game launched that is what the community said, since then Egosoft has brought in a new audience and some longtime fans have come to enjoy XR for it's style.

If everyone that bought XR were interviewed I'm pretty sure it would be pretty close to half and half for what the TOTAL of the community wants to see in the next iteration. I will say that the active forum members probably lean toward an expanded X3.

Me though, I hope to see both in an alternating pattern going forward, that would be amazing.

2018: X4
2020: XR2
2022: X5
etc.

[Nikola515]

Actually i have to disagree with you on this one..... Majority of players dropped first week/mouth after game never to come back. It was simular to No Man's Sky but NMS actually got much better with updates.

Anyway those who didn't like it right away don't care and those who want X4 are waiting dormant. You can notice that this forum have extremely low traffic (even off topic have large traffic than XR)...Also if you look how bad ratings are on Steam for XR i don't think those people would want another XR . My point is that baced on rating and nuber of drops (i think dropped 600 player in a first week on Steam) Egosoft decided to go with X4 do to its huge success within community and popularity. But my question still is ? Will X4 really be true X4 ? Nanook had a good point when he said that vote wouldn't matter here because majority who like XR are left on this forum and those who don't are moved on something else or wating for X4.

[Alandauron]

Actually i have to disagree with you on this one....

We can speculate and argue until we're blue in the face but that doesn't change the fact that none of us know the actual amount that would prefer one over the other. My point was merely that if somehow we were miraculously able to get input from the TOTAL of the community that purchased X: Rebirth that it would likely be very balanced on what the community wanted to see next.

As I have stated in previous comments:
-Bad reviews are mostly in relation to this not being X4, but not everyone writes reviews
-XR has it's own positives that have drawn in a new crowd
-The amount of people playing each game on any given month is fairly balanced
-XR added things that are now liked by longtimers as well as newcomers

You can claim all day that you represent the "silent majority" but you really don't know, and that has also been discussed to death lol.

[Nikola515]

Lol you missed my point How many times i already thold you that what we think is irrelevant here (i actually somewhat like XR and i have 2000h on it). If i hated this game so much would i be playing it for 2000h and testing crap out of it to make it better? Now that we settle this im simply bringing both sides of the argument.

My point was why Egosoft actually choose X4 and not XR2. No matter how much we don't like it people don't like games like XR (that is being stuck to one ship without any customization). When i say people i think of all space games community and not just hand full of people....

[Alandauron]

My point was why Egosoft actually choose X4 and not XR2. No matter how much we don't like it people don't like games like XR (that is being stuck to one ship without any customization). When i say people i think of all space games community and not just hand full of people....

Nope I understood your point, once again you don't know why they chose "X4" or even what X4 will play like. X4 may end up being a proper mesh of everything great from XR and X3, or it may play more like XR but bring in the loved features from X3 like being able to pilot more ships.

People do like games like XR lol, but this community wasn't ready for it because they were anticipating an X3 followup. Also, you weren't stuck to one ship, you could sit on a Capship and tell it where to go which was often faster than flying the SKUNK(without mods to add jump to SKUNK). You just couldn't pilot more ships, which made sense for the direction they went for this particular game.

[Nikola515]

They wore saying same thing about Darkstar One Anyway look at today's market and where money is and that will tell you everything.... I don't think 150 million dollars SC and its fan bace thinks piloting all ships is boring.... I still think Egosoft did X4 becuse of how bad XR went down the hill.

[Alandauron]

They wore saying same thing about Darkstar One Anyway look at today's market and where money is and that will tell you everything.... I don't think 150 million dollars SC and its fan bace thinks piloting all ships is boring.... I still think Egosoft did X4 becuse of how bad XR went down the hill.

Piloting more ships is always better, don't think anyone will argue that lol. SC has a different focus entirely though, it's much like EVE where you control one ship and are a part of something greater. The X Universe is about creating an empire, whether through trading, brute force, or a combination of both. You can't take one thing you like from SC without pointing out everything it lacks that the X games focus on.

You are focused primarily on piloting but there is so much more to the X Universe games than that which is why a great many people think that XR added some great things that they don't want to see go away. Would it be great to have the option to pilot everything? You bet! It's better to focus on the fleet command, station expansion, and other grand scheme items for the next installment though. SC is likely to lock down the space sim market for anyone looking to have firefights and multiplayer action, so if all Egosoft does is focus on adding more piloting for ships in a single player game they will be missing out on a larger potential audience.

XR only went "down the hill" because of all the negative reviews by the people that were upset they didn't get X3 re-imagined, but it still did pretty well in spite of all those complaints. I don't see XR as a negative in any way, but that's because I look at it for itself not based off any other games.

[Nikola515]

Actually you cant even build large empires in XR (just one of problems). You probably haven't realized yet but majority ships are spawning out of thin air and our empire building is limited to shipyard production. So there is only so much you can do with those limitations. You also cant take over anything becuse stations/ships just respawn out of thin air.... Unlike X3 where you actually build unlimited empire and keep zones controled as long as you have fleets to do it.

Anyway let's just wait and hope Ego did right decision.....

[MegaJohnny]

While I agree entirely that having fleets is the backbone of X's unique appeal, I really liked buying new ships and trying them out in old X. How did they fly, were they nimble, how did the weapon compatibility fit in, how good were they at dodging vs tanking damage, what was the turret coverage like... Every ship felt different to pilot, thanks to having so many variables, even if you spent most of your time in a top-tier fighter or M6.

Most if not all of that goes out the window with a single player ship, and it deflates the overall enjoyment for me. In XR the linear upgrade path lets you choose a minor stat bias in your godlike tier 4 equipment, and the guns you buy act more like a checklist than gearing up for a particular mission.

I agree there is some hugging to old times with regard to XR - I cringe a bit when people say they want SETA back, or that there's no Boron therefore game is trash. But piloting all the different ships is a big thing that adds a lot to the game. It's entirely reasonable to be sad that it went away.

[BigBANGtheory]

XR only went "down the hill" because of all the negative reviews by the people that were upset they didn't get X3 re-imagined, but it still did pretty well in spite of all those complaints. I don't see XR as a negative in any way, but that's because I look at it for itself not based off any other games.

XR whilst having some really good elements to it was not a minimum viable product (MVP), it had problems and gaps that could not be filled fast enough.

[Alandauron]

Actually you cant even build large empires in XR (just one of problems).

Actually I have a pretty big empire...you can build stations all over the place, it's pretty simple to capture all the ships you need, but you can also purchase them at a pretty decent rate once the money starts flowing in...I honestly don't know where you get the, "can't even build large empires" from. I have a fairly self sufficient empire in my vanilla game that I basically just let the game run and enjoy the income, this way when I do actually take some time to play I tend to be able to expand even more.
This is without the overhaul CWIR also.

It's true that you can't build your own Capital Shipyards in order to create your own fleet from your own stations though, at least in vanilla.

You probably haven't realized yet but majority ships are spawning out of thin air and our empire building is limited to shipyard production.

I am working on modding the game so yea, I've realized that...

So there is only so much you can do with those limitations. You also cant take over anything becuse stations/ships just respawn out of thin air....

With the ability to build all over the place I haven't really found many limitations besides if you try to build where the stations are going to be attacked without a sufficient fleet to defend them. While you can't capture anything in vanilla that doesn't stop you from building new stations in every sector of space available.

Unlike X3 where you actually build unlimited empire and keep zones controled as long as you have fleets to do it.

Umm...this is weird because I can build an empire in the game, X: Rebirth with it in it's vanilla state...are we playing the same game? If this is what you think is different than X3 then you might be mistaken. Your ships and stations even get attacked if you build them in hostile areas, so you need a fleet to defend them.

Now what you can't do in vanilla is take over entire sectors and push out enemy ships and stations, they are there to stay. Honestly though that keeps things from becoming too easy or irrelevant, most likely an intentional design choice to prevent the player from "Ruling the galaxy".

From the sound of it, about the only thing you can't do from X3 is to pilot multiple ships, but that is already confirmed as in for X4 so you don't need to worry at all .

[Nikola515]

Whatever you say

Let's just wait until X4 comes out.... There is no point to argue becuse our minds are already madeup and it is not going to change anything.....

[Alandauron]

@MegaJohnny, as I have stated numerous times I agree that piloting more ships is better, thankfully the devs have already stated that will be a thing in X4, just maybe not Capships(which I can live with). The problem is that it seems the majority of the arguments against XR are centered around that and only that, piloting Capships. I mean how many discussions are there about this single topic now? lol

As a newcomer to the series I can tell you that there is a ton of hugging to the old times lol. I mean I don't blame them, it was a game they loved, but to say that they were betrayed or misled, etc. I don't see that. They tried something new and never said they were making X3 "re-imagined" and they did a lot of good in XR, they just didn't take the new mechanics far enough IMO.

Dialog: Making a way to level crew require dialog given that you need tons of crew members and you only get one object to level only 1 star...too repetitive to be sure.

Stations: It was nice to be able to set foot on stations but they felt pointless because there weren't "shops" just random people standing around wherever they felt like standing.

Crew: [not sure if this was in other X games] Having to find all crew members all over the galaxy was kinda neat but the Recruiter was the best execution for this system. There should be "Specialists" and then subordinates to be hired through a Recruiter IMO.

Fighters: While it was great seeing that fighters targeted the hardpoints(turrets, engines, etc.) on Capships it would be better to have more control over what they prioritize, that way you can take out vital systems and then have them withdraw from the battle before all are wiped out.

[Nanook]

...
Actually I have a pretty big empire...you can build stations all over the place, it's pretty simple to capture all the ships you need, but you can also purchase them at a pretty decent rate once the money starts flowing in...I honestly don't know where you get the, "can't even build large empires" from. ....

That's because you've admittedly never played the previous games. If you had, you'd understand. The scale of what could be done in the two previous games is massive compared to Rebirth. You might want to take a little time and try the previous games before you make any more judgments on what the X vets are saying.

[Santi]

It is not really the scale of what you can build, but what you can do with what you build that makes the difference. I never build a missile complex in X Rebirth and to be honest do not see the point of it. In X3 I did build it, because without it, certain ships will not be able to operate.

Trying to complete the HUB mission without hugely expanding production is just pointless and so on. Same for fleets, I had a whole squadron of Kestrels with jumpdrive and all software upgrades just so I could quickly equip other ships via transfer command.

For the scope of X Rebirth the building of stations is more than sufficient, same for the fleets, it lacks in fleet commands department and obviously stations not being able to be destroyed is a bummer and limits some gameplay options. I always said that X Rebirth needs more consumables, at the end of the day the player, with time, should be the mayor sink for the economy.

[Nikola515]

Exactly my point.... But that is nature of XR economy and if one thing goes wrong whole economy can collapse leaving little gaps and room for large empire building. I think I once had over 3000 stations in X3 (I'm surprised my pc didn't die ). In XR having 100 is overkill even with all DLC (I had 300 at one time in XR). But I agree with Santi more large sinks are needed like hub if we wore to use large empires. Perhaps something like terraforiming planets would help ?

[plynak]

Just a small insight, there is a game in the making, Starpoint Gemini Warlords, which is completely based upon players flying and commanding capital ships. You can also build fleets, stations, capture territories...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/419480/

I really doub that flying capital ships is so boring after all.

[BigBANGtheory]

There is also Dreadnought which is a more FPS mp version of Star Point Gemini:
https://www.greybox.com/dreadnought/en/

What they have done though to acheive that is give the captial ships agility and maneouverability of much smaller ships... its kind of a fudge and they get away with it because you are never given the chance to fly the smaller units which are zipping about under the control of the AI. The capital ships in X Universe do not behave like that they are more like oil tankers to simulate their mass and size. If you were to play Star Point Gemini at 1/4 speed you'd probably get a good idea as to what the result would look like in X I think you'd need SETA to still be around.

With the right HUD, gameplay and UX it could work it could be fun. You should capture it in the ideas forum, make a case for it and describe why it would be a good thing.

[Meme Turtle]

Well, if you build your entire game concept around player flying cap ships, then it might be fun. Look at the things that devs of Star Point had to do to achieve this:
- No flyable small craft. There are fighters and bombers in the game but you can only command them, not control yourself(reminds X:R, does it not?).
- Relative speed. Cap ships in Star Point feel more like fighters because of how fast and nimble they are.
- Number of weapons and weapon types. There are 3 weapon types(with roughly the same range) and a max of 24 turrets per ship, so the player can actually aim and fire all those turrets himself.
- Only 3d person view. You can not force players into 3d person view in X:R as it is against game concept and breaks immersion.
- Docking. In X:R to dock a cap ship has to position his docking port precisely against a station docking port. You just cant do that manually.


Also, lets not forget that X games do not focus on just fighting. If anything game series are closer to Anno strategies, than Star Point or Elite Dangerous.

To people who keep crying about X:R not having features of previous games:

First of all, most of them are supported by the game engine. Player ships actually do require missiles and stations can be destroyed.
Mods from talented modders like BlackRain, UniTrader and others prove that you can have conquerable zones, player hq/shipyards and even manual control over cap ships in the game.

Second, you cant really expect devs to transfer all features from their previous title(which has been developed for almost 20 years) into a new one. The game would not have been released even by now then. Not to mention that vanilla X2/X3: Reunion do not have many of those features as well and if it was not for the community(with mods like X-Tended) X3:AP would never be the game you play today.

So, if anything, compare games by functions in XSD libraries not raw list of game features.

[plynak]

Yes, I know, that is why it worked so nicely in X2 and in all iterations of X3 and why it failed so miserably in the XR.