Fingers crossed for 1.18

[dzhedzho]

Theres rumours going around that a few of the Devs have left and that there are problems in house. I asked for an update but there hasnt been any responce from them. Infact 1 thread got moved and the other locked so iguess there just saying a big f**k you to there customers too now.

Not customers.
Just spoiled idiots who can't refrain themselves to rant on a forum to vent their disappointed kid's frustration.
Tbh it's getting on my nerves as well.

Actually no, not venting frustrations, making sure all new customers have something else to use as research, than marketing material...

[plynak]

Steam CS is fine for the most part. Limiting refunds is to prevent exploitation, and it would be exploited by no small means. With many games, you cant return them if opened. The problem isnt with the refund practices of Steam, but more or less the filter in which games get greenlit to be sold on the platform.

Steam actually allows the distribution of early versions of the game, whether its a pre-release, or a beta, or an alpha even.. clearly this was the way to go on both steam and Egosoft's end. As a final product however it shouldnt have been able to be sold as a complete product.

Well there is one small detail. You have to open a game box in order to read EULA. Therefore if you say, you are returning the game because you do not agree with EULA (or becasue the EULA is not in you native language, which it has to be according to the local law) which you had no chance to read prior the opening, you are entitled to the refund.

[Vandragorax]

I really miss the pre-broadband days when the product (be it game or a program) had to be actually FINISHED before releasing, because there was no patching and no going back. But now, you get an unplayable POS and wait politely until it gets patched to a condition that it should have been in at release date.

You are simply talking out of your proverbial backside now... there were TONS of "pre-broadband" games released on all sorts of platforms with HORRIFFIC game breaking (and worse) bugs without any chance to patch them... be grateful that we now CAN patch games instantly to fix these things.

Take for example PlayStation Underground Holiday 2004 on the PS2 which had a demo bundled with it which formatted any memory card in the PS2 when you ran it.

Or Age of Empires on the DS, where you broke the game if you didn't name your profile with a name longer than 4 characters, and it crashed all the time when trying to save.

Pool of Radiance on the PC deleted Windows system files.

Jet Set Willy on the ZX Spectrum had a bug where after entering a room called The Attic the entire game became corrupted. The good news is, monsters disappear from some rooms. The bad news? Other rooms turn into instant-death traps, making it impossible to win.

And the list goes on... (Source: http://www.bucketbros.com/text/worst-vi ... -bugs.html)

So yeah... be glad for the modern times of insta-patching. Personally I'm more annoyed at the apparent diminishing of the game demo, but it has already been stated numerous times now on these silly threads that you can easily wait for reviews or forum remarks before deciding whether to purchase or not.

I will finish with some wise words from Maurice Moss (the IT Crowd) - "Sorry for your loss. Move on."

[Gupster]

Theres rumours going around that a few of the Devs have left and that there are problems in house. I asked for an update but there hasnt been any responce from them. Infact 1 thread got moved and the other locked so iguess there just saying a big f**k you to there customers too now.

Not customers.
Just spoiled idiots who can't refrain themselves to rant on a forum to vent their disappointed kid's frustration.
Tbh it's getting on my nerves as well.

Is this some kind of the Stockholm syndrom? Oh no, these bad guys who kidnapped me are actually really good! The same applies here. Poor Egosoft who created this junk and sold it for 50 EUR. How can someone complain. Yeah, right... So customers have no rights? If they buy a faulty and non functional product it is o.k.? I can sell you my radio. It actualy does not work, but hey, who cares! Or my broken watches. They do not work, but hey, they are correct twice a day! Show me ANY other business where you buy a faulty product and can not refund it. Just one.

#

Just give it a rest, your just repeating yourself like a parrot, go get a refund then maybe you will be happy.

[plynak]

Theres rumours going around that a few of the Devs have left and that there are problems in house. I asked for an update but there hasnt been any responce from them. Infact 1 thread got moved and the other locked so iguess there just saying a big f**k you to there customers too now.

Not customers.
Just spoiled idiots who can't refrain themselves to rant on a forum to vent their disappointed kid's frustration.
Tbh it's getting on my nerves as well.

Is this some kind of the Stockholm syndrom? Oh no, these bad guys who kidnapped me are actually really good! The same applies here. Poor Egosoft who created this junk and sold it for 50 EUR. How can someone complain. Yeah, right... So customers have no rights? If they buy a faulty and non functional product it is o.k.? I can sell you my radio. It actualy does not work, but hey, who cares! Or my broken watches. They do not work, but hey, they are correct twice a day! Show me ANY other business where you buy a faulty product and can not refund it. Just one.

#

Just give it a rest, your just repeating yourself like a parrot, go get a refund then maybe you will be happy.

Interesting, you are running out of argumets are you not?

[dubnium]

Theres rumours going around that a few of the Devs have left and that there are problems in house. I asked for an update but there hasnt been any responce from them. Infact 1 thread got moved and the other locked so iguess there just saying a big f**k you to there customers too now.

Not customers.
Just spoiled idiots who can't refrain themselves to rant on a forum to vent their disappointed kid's frustration.
Tbh it's getting on my nerves as well.

Is this some kind of the Stockholm syndrom? Oh no, these bad guys who kidnapped me are actually really good! The same applies here. Poor Egosoft who created this junk and sold it for 50 EUR. How can someone complain. Yeah, right... So customers have no rights? If they buy a faulty and non functional product it is o.k.? I can sell you my radio. It actualy does not work, but hey, who cares! Or my broken watches. They do not work, but hey, they are correct twice a day! Show me ANY other business where you buy a faulty product and can not refund it. Just one.

#

Just give it a rest, your just repeating yourself like a parrot, go get a refund then maybe you will be happy.

a pot calling a kettle black? how droll.

[Gupster]

Theres rumours going around that a few of the Devs have left and that there are problems in house. I asked for an update but there hasnt been any responce from them. Infact 1 thread got moved and the other locked so iguess there just saying a big f**k you to there customers too now.

Not customers.
Just spoiled idiots who can't refrain themselves to rant on a forum to vent their disappointed kid's frustration.
Tbh it's getting on my nerves as well.

Is this some kind of the Stockholm syndrom? Oh no, these bad guys who kidnapped me are actually really good! The same applies here. Poor Egosoft who created this junk and sold it for 50 EUR. How can someone complain. Yeah, right... So customers have no rights? If they buy a faulty and non functional product it is o.k.? I can sell you my radio. It actualy does not work, but hey, who cares! Or my broken watches. They do not work, but hey, they are correct twice a day! Show me ANY other business where you buy a faulty product and can not refund it. Just one.

#

Just give it a rest, your just repeating yourself like a parrot, go get a refund then maybe you will be happy.

Interesting, you are running out of argumets are you not?

#

I am not the one arguing, it is simple, if you don't like the game go get a refund. I like the game and know it will be fixed, but for those that do not like it just go the refund route.

[CBJ]

Enough of the bickering.

[Mauzi!]

if you don't like the game go get a refund. I like the game and know it will be fixed, but for those that do not like it just go the refund route.

No matter some silly arguments further above, this surely is right and the only way to educate Egosoft ever - taking away from a portion of they unrightfully claimed "success" money.

On the other hand, since this doesn't seem to work for everyone, the advice has limited use. Guess that's one of the few times I am glad to be located in the EU.

[jeroll3d]

Enough of the bickering.

[Kolreth]

I really miss the pre-broadband days when the product (be it game or a program) had to be actually FINISHED before releasing, because there was no patching and no going back. But now, you get an unplayable POS and wait politely until it gets patched to a condition that it should have been in at release date.

You are simply talking out of your proverbial backside now... there were TONS of "pre-broadband" games released on all sorts of platforms with HORRIFFIC game breaking (and worse) bugs without any chance to patch them... be grateful that we now CAN patch games instantly to fix these things.

Take for example PlayStation Underground Holiday 2004 on the PS2 which had a demo bundled with it which formatted any memory card in the PS2 when you ran it.

Or Age of Empires on the DS, where you broke the game if you didn't name your profile with a name longer than 4 characters, and it crashed all the time when trying to save.

Pool of Radiance on the PC deleted Windows system files.

Jet Set Willy on the ZX Spectrum had a bug where after entering a room called The Attic the entire game became corrupted. The good news is, monsters disappear from some rooms. The bad news? Other rooms turn into instant-death traps, making it impossible to win.

And the list goes on... (Source: http://www.bucketbros.com/text/worst-vi ... -bugs.html)

So yeah... be glad for the modern times of insta-patching. Personally I'm more annoyed at the apparent diminishing of the game demo, but it has already been stated numerous times now on these silly threads that you can easily wait for reviews or forum remarks before deciding whether to purchase or not.

I will finish with some wise words from Maurice Moss (the IT Crowd) - "Sorry for your loss. Move on."

Who the hell would start windows 2 up to play a dos game?

[jeroll3d]

I want XR in console ATARI

[v1ctor]

Is this some kind of the Stockholm syndrom? Oh no, these bad guys who kidnapped me are actually really good! The same applies here. Poor Egosoft who created this junk and sold it for 50 EUR. How can someone complain. Yeah, right... So customers have no rights?

How come you are allowed to moderate this forum?

[savagetwinky]

Personally, I fail to understand why anyone defends Egosoft on this.

I mean, if I buy a new car (price difference understood), I buy it knowing I can drive it home and everything is there and works. I don't buy a car only to find out (once I've paid good money for it), that it doesn't have a steering wheel yet and there's a few gears missing. Also - it might just stop in the middle of the road randomly and fail to start. That would be silly.

The same analogy can use a toaster or whatever else we spend money on. If we buy a "finished" product, that's what you expect to get.

I fully understand that PC games can be tricky with all of the various configurations people are using but when I look at titles such as State of Decay (that I opted into on PC the moment it was available as a BETA release), and guess what? It worked! Sure, I couldn't rebind keys for a while but that was all soon fixed. Egosoft have released Rebirth as a "complete release" (they've never stated it's in ALPHA or BETA), and therefore that's what I expect. Things that a are broken in this game defy belief.

Personally, Undead Labs (who I'm sure are smaller and much less experienced team than Egosoft), did a cracking job and you always felt as though they were pushing to create the best title they could. Egosoft have lied, scammed and then expected us to all sit back and wait for patches (of which most have made my game worse), and expect us to be damned happy for the privilege.

It's a con. This whole thing stinks and I for one, feel pretty stung by the rippoff that is Rebirth.

PS - I've got most of the previous Egosoft titles. People keep saying they were broken and fixed too but I don't agree. For me, they were far more playable on day one than Rebirth is still to this day. Shouldn't Egosoft have used this previous experience to create Rebirth into the game they promised?

How did they go so far backwards?

Did you just buy a car? No you did research and probably even had a test drive. This is your fault for not doing research.

For instance i went and bought a pair of shoes from walmart. I'm pretty sure they were made in a sweatshop in china and held together with children's tears... so they did not last long. Just because something is new does not gurantee it's quality.

Seriously have you ever made any purchases before?

Its YOUR FAULT for purchasing a product based on hype and 0 knowledge. You can't be mad at egosoft for your mistakes. What you can be is dissapointed, and not buy the product until its been fixed.

Funny thing about the test drive. Does Rebirth have a demo? None that I know of. So how do you suggest for customers to make a test play? Would really like to know.
And please define "long" time. Because here in EU, you have two years warranty on most products. So if your shoes did not last two years, you have the right to ask for a refund. Yes, it is as simple as that.
According to your logic, when I go buy a youghurt and it is rotten, it is my fault for not opening it in the shop, right? And God forbid me to ask for a refund. Sometimes I really wonder what some people can come up with in their heads....

The point i was trying to make is that people do research on products. I mean there are laws that help protect consumers but being stupid about everying is a hard sell in the courts. Even if the bugs were worked out, the game is still unbalanced with a lot of questionable design decisions. That is something the courts can't protect you from.

[Mauzi!]

Even if the bugs were worked out, the game is still unbalanced with a lot of questionable design decisions. That is something the courts can't protect you from.

Except when advertising promised functions that weren't delivered.

I mean there are laws that help protect consumers but being stupid about everying is a hard sell in the courts.

Except in the US and some other countries, where consumers are not protected really but are allowed to be as stupid as a brick. Just naming the famous example of a microwave getting used to dry your pets leading to the microwave manufacturer to get sued for not having provided sufficient information that is might kill the pet...

[dzhedzho]

Even if the bugs were worked out, the game is still unbalanced with a lot of questionable design decisions. That is something the courts can't protect you from.

Except when advertising promised functions that weren't delivered.

I mean there are laws that help protect consumers but being stupid about everying is a hard sell in the courts.

Except in the US and some other countries, where consumers are not protected really but are allowed to be as stupid as a brick. Just naming the famous example of a microwave getting used to dry your pets leading to the microwave manufacturer to get sued for not having provided sufficient information that is might kill the pet...

http://satwcomic.com/battle-cry

[CBJ]

There's now more info about 1.18 in the Progress thread at the top of the forum.

[Waervyn]

There's now more info about 1.18 in the Progress thread at the top of the forum.

Awesome. Bernd didn't update the title of the post though, so I only noticed because you posted so here.

Cheers for that

[marshb]

Even if the bugs were worked out, the game is still unbalanced with a lot of questionable design decisions. That is something the courts can't protect you from.

Except when advertising promised functions that weren't delivered.

I mean there are laws that help protect consumers but being stupid about everying is a hard sell in the courts.

Except in the US and some other countries, where consumers are not protected really but are allowed to be as stupid as a brick. Just naming the famous example of a microwave getting used to dry your pets leading to the microwave manufacturer to get sued for not having provided sufficient information that is might kill the pet...

http://satwcomic.com/battle-cry

As an American I find that...hilarious! So true.
Thanks for the update CBJ!

[Hob Anagerik]

I wouldn't blame them for leaving after the sh*tload they got from this forum...

Most people don't mind working hard and overtime, when they are given some appreciation and respect. If you don't treat them with respect, they don't give a f*ck about it anymore and just apply for a job elsewhere.

I'm coming late to the party and haven't read all 7 pages of replies but I have always believe that respect has to be earned. They will have my respect once this has occurred...which it has not.