X3 online NOT DAME UPDATES

drunk weasel · Post by **drunk weasel** » Fri, 4. May 07, 23:34

Having never played Eve and just looking at a vid now is it not just point and click? No actual player flying the ship just click where it should go RTS style?

mcjomar · Post by **mcjomar** » Sat, 5. May 07, 00:50

pretty much, yea. not completely RTS style as you only have control of whatever ship you're "in", but thats essentially it. however there's a lot of cool ships, an ok background to the universe, all the races are human which saves problems with "ooh an alien. now what techno sci fi marvel allows our races to miraculously talk to one another and understand eachother perfectly?" hehe. also there is the aforementioned 5000+ systems, 125000 user with ~20000 online at any one time thing going on there too.

but i think this is why we'd all like to see the X universe go online. for one thing we're right in the cockpit firing for ourselves instead of some point and click adventure.
(of course id' also like to land on planets, walk around planets, walk around stations, talk to NPCs face to face on planet/station. negotiate, hunt down deals, make contacts, etc. theres a whole universe of things to do and game developers have only ever scratched the surface what with combat and trading and all. there's a hell of a lot of background and options to explore, if only the devs would take the time. i'm willing to wait. i'd be itching for it to hurry up if it happened, but if it meant an awesome game with all these cool options like exploring your own ship as well as the universe, and maybe multiple players/NPCs on board one players/NPC's ship or other such cool ideas, then i'd willingly wait.

but yea. thats just my ideas. anyone else?

drunk weasel · Post by **drunk weasel** » Sat, 5. May 07, 02:44

And what is Eve's combat system like? Does it use the MMORPG typical attack style of just shooting with the attack as a percentage to hit? Can there be friendly fire? Thats what I mean by simplified, thats where the mass of information in X comes from. Point and click is far easier than full player control and a simplified attack system saves a massive amount of calculation if you dont have to worry about where every shot is going and if even missed shots are going to hit something. Thats a reason why X is very intensive on your PC, every shot is calculated, in Eve if someone crosses your line of fire while you're shooting does it hurt them or just pass through? In X if a shot misses it travels the full range of the weapon and could still hit something till it burns out.

I think we'd all love to see an X online game if it did'nt have to be dulled down to do it but if you lose a lot of what makes it special then its not really worth it.

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Sat, 5. May 07, 07:50

There's a good reason Eve uses a point and click style combat system--it's called lag. Back when I was playing World of Warcraft my typical lag was around 400ms, and that was in the supposedly "green" zone (e.g. acceptable). Think about that for a minute in relation to X. You pull the trigger, a message goes from your PC to the server saying you've done it, and you get the message back from the server saying "Yes, OK, he hit his target" nearly half a second later? May not sound much, but try playing X3 at 2.5 frames per second and you'll get a better idea of the problem.

xTemon · Post by **xTemon** » Sat, 5. May 07, 23:06

You know, a temporary capitalistic mercantile XOU approach might help to satisfy some of the MMORGH players who like X without requiring massive server management for combat; avoid the combat and keep the sector views-anyone who wants to transit back and forth takes a taxi, or buys a ship of some sort, with all other property owned being owned property that was purchased in game, but is otherwise unusable at the same time. Set up the odd server generated space battle to watch out the viewports if you have a feel for it while your waiting for your stocks to go up; trade, think, maybe build something by request through the administrator's, and when your not interested anymore the ownership transfers to the other players through auction.

You did notice that matix hasn't posted in quite some time didn't you..

mrbadger · Post by **mrbadger** » Sat, 5. May 07, 23:54

I'm in the process of developing a distributed game engine that, in several years, might just be able to produce an online x type of thing. Not that this is what I'm aiming for, I think an online X game would suck. an online space game is a possibility though.

The coding is horrendously hard. Only now am I appreciating just how complex it is to produce a distributed mmorg. Finding ways to avoid lag through efficient engine design is by far the hardest thing.

I think that a few people who say it isn't hard to make an online game should crack out the socket coding books and actually see just how hard it is. I've been at it for a year now and I am still firmly in the initial design and coding stage. Every time I think I have something that might reduce lag, another problem crops up, and my engine is simple..

KipperTheFish · Post by **KipperTheFish** » Sun, 6. May 07, 00:35

I've just read through the 6 pages of this thread and have come to a conclusion.
Everyone who of FOR a X-online has suggested ways to achieve it, but they ALL entail changing something that makes X what it is.
I have a message for all those who suggest changing the (IMHO) greatest space sim on the market.
Buy another game.
All on-line gaming always come down to the same thing in the end, shooting the s**t out of everyone else.
This is not what the X-series is about.

Tonedude · Post by **Tonedude** » Sun, 6. May 07, 00:52

esd wrote:
Tonedude wrote:Online games suck so hard they could suck a golf ball thru a straw.

And wtf are Dame Updates? Are they updates for your girlfriend? Assuming you have one which I seriously doubt.

Tony.
Users were previously asked not to pick on the OP's spelling. You won't be asked again.

I didn't pick on his spelling, I just thought he was talking about his Virtual girlfriend.

But people are picking on him (and rightly so) not because of his spelling but the fact he comes across like a spoilt child, who has just bought some candy and opened it up to find it doesn't contain chocolate. If he gives his opinion respectfully, I would have treated him with respect, spelling and grammar of a three year old or not.

Well I've said my piece,

Tony.

Tripi123 · Post by **Tripi123** » Sun, 6. May 07, 01:11

I've read this this thread from beginning to end. And read pretty much the samething in previous threads before. And, as usual, this thread has ended up heading in the same direction as the others. Hmm...

Having been involed in the beta testing of 2 different MMORPG's(EVE and Jump Gate), and a paying customer for both of those games after going retail, I hope EgoSoft doesn't get to involved in taking the X series into that realm of game play, for all the reasons previously mentioned. The game that all of us are playing today, would be so totlally different, you probably wouldn't recognize it.

Sure, It would be real nice to have a "HOTAS" type space sim that has all the eye candy that X3 has, but reallity and experience tells me it is a long ways away.

In the mean time, I hope the dev's here at Egosoft are thinking about X4

Post by **Cycrow** » Sun, 6. May 07, 01:16

mrbadger wrote:I think that a few people who say it isn't hard to make an online game should crack out the socket coding books and actually see just how hard it is. I've been at it for a year now and I am still firmly in the initial design and coding stage. Every time I think I have something that might reduce lag, another problem crops up, and my engine is simple..

oh i c this all the time, u get loads of ppl suggesting easy ideas to implement, without knowing anything about how much coding it actually takes to achive it.

i actually got fired from my last job simply because the manage doesn't understand programming. He asked me to do an impossible task, then i got fired because i hadn't finished it.

basically he gave me a week to create a awhole os for a new set of hardware that hadn't even been finished built yet

xTemon · Post by **xTemon** » Mon, 7. May 07, 20:42

mrbadger wrote:I think that a few people who say it isn't hard to make an online game should crack out the socket coding books and actually see just how hard it is. I've been at it for a year now and I am still firmly in the initial design and coding stage. Every time I think I have something that might reduce lag, another problem crops up, and my engine is simple..

I think you failed to see the point, I didn't suggest that it was easy, or even that you would like it; what I suggested was that it was possible, given that you cut some of the problems inherent in online gaming out.

People seem to have a great deal of resistance to this idea, to them I would have to say, if you don't like it, don't play it; this isn't about pleasing a generation of X'ers that like solo space sim's-myself included, it's about pleasing all those people that like space sims, online games, and the X-universe. As a personal note, I'd have to say it's unlikely that I will ever play XOU, should it be released, but I'm only one person that feels that way; so should I then suggest that it never be done because I don't really feel like spending $$ on it every month?

Granted an X-online would be difficult to achieve, it's also not impossible, it can be done, and for the sake of those who want it done: perhap's it will be.

The primary factor in this is not what people who don't want it think, it's the response to the marketing of the idea, surveying of that market, and the feasibility of the idea; that's what will determine whether x becomes online in the end, like it or no.

@Cycrow

My sympathies; it's nice to know that if I decide to go into your field I'll still have to deal with them.

Teh_Gerbil · Post by **Teh_Gerbil** » Mon, 7. May 07, 21:23

basically he gave me a week to create a awhole os for a new set of hardware that hadn't even been finished built yet

I hate people like this. Drive me up the wall.

X Online would be nice. But very expensive (It'd need uber servers) and difficult to stop the first players dominating the whole game for everyone - so it'd need to be HUGE.

Closest thing sofar is Infinity: Quest for Earth. I'd suggest you check it out - personally - I can't wait!

Also, did this guy ever get his Dame Updated?

laplace · Post by **laplace** » Thu, 10. May 07, 02:37

How is XOU supposed to work?

I've seen references to EvE, but that is an RTS. So is WoW. They do not suffer that much from first-person shooters biggest enemy. LAG..

As with any FPS, latency depends on internet connection, server connection, server power, and often distance to it.
I know I would not want to be in a dogfight with high latency. Seeing my target in the sights, pressing fire, and seeing the shots go off 3 seconds later.

How could this be alleviated? With a high amount of local servers? AFAIK WoW already suffers from lag, and they have many. It also costs alot of money, and Egosoft is not Blizzard...

Even still, ping would be an issue. I do not want to get a 10-100Mb connection to be able to compete in an online game.

Does there exist any FPS MMO with the massive scale required for XOU?

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Thu, 10. May 07, 07:47

laplace wrote: I've seen references to EvE, but that is an RTS. So is WoW.

WoW an RTS? What? Warcraft 1, 2, and 3 may have been RTS games, but WoW most definitely isn't.

laplace · Post by **laplace** » Thu, 10. May 07, 09:15

Perhaps not. My point was more that it's not FPS. There is no "skill" involved. No quick and precise movements to hit the target. It's about stats/skills/attributes. Latency is not all important when it comes to such games.

Matix · Post by **Matix** » Mon, 28. May 07, 15:46

ok so you say its down cash, others not seem to have problem at giving it a ago, ie new elite game online http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/ this not a company that has been round since the spectum. sound to me like you have been round years not invested any, if you are even same egosoft.
if your not go to give it try, sounds like you will be in left in dust of others in end .
millions players like online gaming, even sims2 online now lol, sorry i just find hard to belive egosoft has not got funds when loads other not get the problems, if you are same egosoft how did you waste years and not made any cash to fund other projects, what shame this would of made the best space online trade game ever.
anyways good luck at your patches, but this be the last time i buy any x game till a online comes unless better one out.

Carlo the Curious · Post by **Carlo the Curious** » Mon, 28. May 07, 16:16

The Egosoft developers have my sympathies

.

ceogreen · Post by **ceogreen** » Mon, 28. May 07, 16:38

From Vega strikes forums

At the moment, the only things planned for the MMO are simple economy and dogfighting.

Getting quests to work are much harder in multiplayer than in singleplayer... I would think that we should get a quest that works well in singleplayer before moving it to multiplayer. The Privateer Remake has a pretty good, well-tested campaign, so it might be a starting point for such a sys

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... a411d367f4

Also they describe the network code as pre-alpha. Yes they're trying to do this however they're not there yet. I suspect if ego released a version of X-online which was a dumbed down econmy with dog fighting potential there'd be many fans......[/quote]

Jon Tetrino · Post by **Jon Tetrino** » Mon, 28. May 07, 16:43

Matix wrote:they did say it years ago, it was promised , as forum no longer go back that far, you cart see it was promised, and sure some of old forum members remenber reading it. loads topics on it.

This may have been set right before, im not reading the entire topic through,

But they said it was their long term goal. they never said when, how or even if it was a certainty.

Post by **Cycrow** » Tue, 29. May 07, 03:40

Matix wrote:ok so you say its down cash, others not seem to have problem at giving it a ago, ie new elite game online http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/ this not a company that has been round since the spectum. sound to me like you have been round years not invested any, if you are even same egosoft.
if your not go to give it try, sounds like you will be in left in dust of others in end .
millions players like online gaming, even sims2 online now lol, sorry i just find hard to belive egosoft has not got funds when loads other not get the problems, if you are same egosoft how did you waste years and not made any cash to fund other projects, what shame this would of made the best space online trade game ever.
anyways good luck at your patches, but this be the last time i buy any x game till a online comes unless better one out.

just because u will only play online games, doesn't mean its the smae as everyone else.

also, i dont c how posting a like of a games thats not even finished yet proves that X3 would be easy to make into a multiplayer game.

and as for mentioning the sims, well of course, everoyne knows Egosoft is a much bigger company tha EA and have loads more money to spend on a game, dont we ?

but its your choise, if you only like multiplayer games, then this isn't the game for you, and you should force a game to become what you want, if you want to do that, then u can also pay for its delevment and then u can choise what sort of game it is

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

X3 online NOT DAME UPDATES