X3TC / X3AP Patch 2015

[Graaf]

Egosoft needs to know what needs improving on X3 before they port it over to the Rebirth engine.

[Alan Phipps]

What this thread is about is what players of X3TC/AP would like within any future official patch to vanilla X3TC/AP, nothing more.

Discussions and wishlists for X Rebirth and beyond belong elsewhere. There may indeed be some overlap in the basis for thoughts, but again, the purpose for this thread was thoroughly defined in the opening post.

[Cycrow]

It just lists commands lol. Doesn't say what they precisely do. If I had to fault anything is lack of proper manual... we never once had a manual that was worth looking at. Then again... shoving everything relevant for AP for instance, into a manual... would make for one interesting series of novels, would probably look something like "Manual XLXIII - Tractor beam for dummies".

while the equipment information page doesn't tell you what the commands do, if you goto the commands in the command console, you can also press I and it'll give a description of each command

[Honved]

My suspicion is that the 2015 patch will never happen. Maybe a 2016 patch, or perhaps 2017, but not 2015.

Is it possible to rename the topic, or would it make more sense to start a new one?

[RAVEN.myst]

My suspicion is that the 2015 patch will never happen.

LOL! Indeed. Unless they add time travel to the game... Maybe add the TARDIS as a playable ship.

[rnada]

I am reading this post as "suggestions for the next game" ...

Then you're reading it wrong. If you want to make suggestions for the next game, please do so in another thread, perhaps one of the many in the Rebirth forum dedicated to just that topic. Please don't derail this thread with your wish list for The Next Big Thing™. Thanks for your consideration.

Well, it may indeed be I am interpreting wrong, but i have some difficulties in believing that a company (you know, those entities that need to make money to survive) is able to provide ANOTHER free patch to X3. Not that i would not appreciate it, don't get me wrong, but, as a fan, i think it is better to get (and pay) an x4 and see egosoft prosper and exist for many more years and games, rather than get a freebie.

[glenmcd]

Well, it may indeed be I am interpreting wrong, but i have some difficulties in believing that a company (you know, those entities that need to make money to survive) is able to provide ANOTHER free patch to X3.

ES has been doing exactly this for ages and although it may not work out for other games / companies, I've read ES state that each time they do an update, it brings in another round of new customers. My take on this is that to a large degree, promotion of ES games is by word of mouth from existing players. Get the current user base excited, and words coming out of mouths increase. If I remember where I read the ES post about this I'd provide a link to it.

I'm expecting that ES will bring out a fairly big patch to X3 that includes some major performance enhancements. It won't be just extra side mission and a few bug fixes. My 2p..

[RAVEN.myst]

My take on this is that to a large degree, promotion of ES games is by word of mouth from existing players. Get the current user base excited, and words coming out of mouths increase.

A powerful marketing strategy - and cost-effective. Not to mention that it's a win/win, as it improves the customers' experience. I wish more companies would adopt this sort of approach - instead of sinking multi-millions into expensive marketing campaigns, they can instead invest those funds into product improvement or price-point reduction, both of which would serve to further enhance the product's appeal.

[Graaf]

Well, it may indeed be I am interpreting wrong, but i have some difficulties in believing that a company (you know, those entities that need to make money to survive) is able to provide ANOTHER free patch to X3.

The thread was started by the CEO of Egosoft and he said patch, thus free.

I'm expecting that ES will bring out a fairly big patch to X3 that includes some major performance enhancements. It won't be just extra side mission and a few bug fixes. My 2p..

He didn't say so in the OP, but since it has been over a year since they released patch 3.50 for Rebirth, we can hope for something substantial.

[Honved]

I can see where glenmcd's post makes a lot of sense. Egosoft has a (relatively new) game out there that's put a lot of players off, and getting them back as customers is going to take more than just some media hype about the next game. A patch to the existing games could get some people interested again, and the players still playing X3 (or playing it again, after quitting Rebirth) talking up the improvements to friends. Word of mouth still trumps paid advertisements in this industry, and a lot of players don't trust reviewers any further than they can throw them (an especially short distance when there are quite a few "hefty" reviewers out there).

This is "targeted advertising" in a way. Whether Egosoft considers it viable is their call, but I'm certainly not going to stand in their way and say "no". If there's a longer term goal in mind (X4?), then I can see where it would be VERY desirable to keep the current customers from wandering off before there's something tangible to show on the next project.

[Alan Phipps]

It is funny how we keep turning to discuss thoughts on whether and why there may (or may not) be a patch rather than answering the posed question of what feasible improvements we might like to see in any future patch.

Sure, I know this thread has been around a while now, but there may yet be time for more fresh ideas that might help a future useful patch be realised. I certainly hope so at least

Giving better reasons, rewards and surprises for continued exploration (not just carry x from A to B) and providing a good and long-lasting late/mature game challenge would be my main requests.

[RAVEN.myst]

It is funny how we keep turning to discuss thoughts on whether and why there may (or may not) be a patch rather than answering the posed question of what feasible improvements we might like to see in any future patch.

Very good point - since I'm currently (re-re-re-re-re-re-...-re-re-re-re-)replaying X3AP, I'll keep my notebook handy to jot down anything that occurs to me, or which I've forgotten about and may, with some luck, remember as I play

[DJ_D]

Let me be bold here and say that I still enjoy playing X3 way more than X:R and even though no serious bugs or glitches have appeared to me, there are 2 things I would love to see added in a future patch.
1. Engine/ship sounds in cockpit view
2. Cockpits with crew. Even if they remain static it still looks better than an empty chair

I know that the second one is a very bold request and there are mods for that but one can dream, right?

[BlackArchon]

My suggestion for a future patch: Speak with Litcube and try to port as many of his work with LU into X3:AP vanilla - especially the performance improvements! Bounce and MLCC would also be nice.

[RAVEN.myst]

My suggestion for a future patch: Speak with Litcube and try to port as many of his work with LU into X3:AP vanilla - especially the performance improvements! Bounce and MLCC would also be nice.

I think the radical mods should stay as such - turning X3AP into Litcube's Universe (or any total conversion) would be redundant - those who want LU can simply mod it in. The rest of us would end up antagonised and would probably abandon this most excellent game. Minor tweaks like Bounce, as long as they remain OPTIONAL, would be OK, I guess, or could be added to the Bonus Pack (which allows selective enabling of desired elements.)

As for performance enhancing changes, a qualified "yes": those which do not fundamentally change the mechanics of the game, hell yeah, bring them on! But those that improve performance by altering mechanics or physics, I vote a resounding "NO"

[RAVEN.myst]

After having re-visited Rebirth for a month or two, I'm now (inevitably!) back playing X3AP, and have remembered something that, imo, could benefit from some attention: holes in the Terran inventory.

While I am all for asymmetric balancing of factions, there are some elements that are missing from the Terran economy, and which make it more or less impossible to play a pure Terran/ATF game. These are:

- Satellites. Either NavSats or AdvSats (or even both) should be made available in Terran space, perhaps at the Mars Stock Exchange and Saturn Research Station. These used to be available, briefly at game start, from Torus in X3TC, but that's no longer present; furthermore, they would disappear in short order, and were never restocked thereafter. Now, because Terran economy has no satellite factories, satellites would have to be magically spawned in from time to time - this shouldn't be a problem, as Egosoft are pretty used to doing this sort of thing already (boarding pods, spaceflies at 1-2 stations for a particular plot stage, ships in general).

- Marines. There ought to be a marine training barracks (or equivalent) in Terran space, along with a couple of "retail outlets" (yes, marines are consumer goods ) Additionally, there needs to be at least one place in T-space where marines can be trained.

- Boarding mechanic beyond space-walk. Boarding pods could be made available in military bases, and BP-compatibility added to Skirnir, or even add a new M7M (give it to USC, they don't have one at all.) Alternatively, seeing as the game lore indicates that Terran tech is advanced, some Terran and ATF ships (M6s and TPs) could be given the ability to use their transporter device for boarding ops. This would be a way to plug this hole while balancing in an asymmetric manner.

- Lasertowers or Orbital Lasers. Preferably, the latter, again for the sake of asymmetric balancing, as well as to maintain internal faction consistency. Make these purchaseable at military bases. Ideally, also add a buildable factory - in fact, it could be good to make it necessary for the player to set up (for self or for station-build missions) Orbital Laser factories before they can become available at MBs. (Bonus: those players who like to follow the War Reports and comply with the instructions therein, could now comply with the "static defenses in Heretic's End" sort of order without having to buy from the Commonwealth).

- Speaking of War Reports, these really need some attention: as things stand, these messages almost never seem to have any bearing on the actual situation, and never in any actionable, player-influenceable manner.

- Dark Space Installation could be made more interesting - it could carry some of the currently missing wares (satellites, orbital lasers, BPs), and/or be a source of and training facility for marines.

Other things, not pertaining to Terrans specifically:

- Commonwealth-side "Aid the war effort" mission needs fixing: it currently states that it can be satisfied by fulfilling war missions, but that's not the case. Additionally, I believe it should be adjusted to register kills by the player's deployed assets, not just first-person (playership) - in this manner, a player who is playing a force projection (carriers, drones, etc) style of game would not have to compromise it by taking matters into his/her own hands.

- Several players have expressed desire for late-game content, and I agree in the strongest terms. Once all the plots are done (and let's face it, in X3AP they are VERY short - X3TC had much more substance in this regard), it becomes harder to find challenges, and mostly they take the shape of "ohalright, lemme bring my fleet into this or that Xenon sector and throw my weight around some", which is generally very unsatisfying, or "time to rub out the [racename]", which is firstly, not possible, as stuff just magically respawns, and secondly doesn't suit all players. Personally, on the combat side of things, I would like to see escalating Xenon activity, and perhaps the return of our Purple Pyramid Pals after a certain number of game days, or such. I would recommend a toggle setting for this in the options, as this wouldn't suit all players, so the option to enable or disable this would be important, imo. Some interesting form of economic challenge should also be implemented. Perhaps, with heavier alien hostilities, we would see casualties among the NPC armed forces and economic infrastructures alike, which could provide the player with opportunities to prop up (and even save!) entire races. Or something like that... (but please, not a "save up 46 quadrillion credits and pay them to so-and-so for such-and-such" sort of thing - that's fine earlier in the game, but gets tedious later down the line.)

- Reintroduce some now-disused assets, such as #deca, and the Kha'ak Sectors. This could be worked into an implementation of late-game content - synergistically enhance along two dimensions, in this manner.

- Fix the behaviour of Special Command Software on TM-class ships, specifically: they really ought to be able to run the 'Collect ware' and 'Collect wares in sector' commands - in fact, I'd say they are the ships that need to be able to run those commands more than any other! Optionally, in keeping with their "military transport" role, they could lose the 'Collect rocks' commands, though I suspect many would disagree, and I personally would miss them.

To be continued... (I hope!)

[Jimmy C]

Speaking of War Reports, these really need some attention: as things stand, these messages almost never seem to have any bearing on the actual situation, and never in any actionable, player-influenceable manner.

There's one piece of actionable information. The updates means some War sectors have changed hands, though they're usually wrong about which. They're the prompt to send a scout into CoL and AB for those who are hunting for Valhallas.

[RAVEN.myst]

Here are a few more:

- Have ships not forget selected missiles when player enters them (through spacewalk, transporter, or from host ship) instead of defaulting to mosquitoes every time (ironic, as I suspect by now no-one really ever uses mosquitoes as missiles, but only as anti-missile flares.) Weapon preset (1-4) is remembered - why aren't missiles?

- At present, if you dock a player-controlled ship (say, a fighter) to a carrier ship (of any class), auto-refuel and auto-rearm (missiles and ammo) settings are not obeyed, for some reason - please fix this? AI-controlled fighters get rearmed and refuelled when they dock with a carrier or a station, and so does a player-controlled ship when docking at a station - why should player-controlled docking at a carrier be any exception?

- This may not be possible, but in case it is: how about auto-restock drones options, same as ammo and missiles?

- Expand carrier rearm options to include all missile and ammo types that could be used by hosted ships - for example, most TMs can't use mid-payload missiles such as Thunderbolts, but most M3 fighters can, so the host ship ought to be able to auto-replenish what its "client" use. Ditto MD and EBC ammo - many fighters (as low as M4s, in case of MD) can equip those guns, so TMs and M7Cs ought to be able to resupply those (at least, in races that use those ammo types by default, perhaps, to make it a little more interesting.)

- Changing the subject somewhat: would be VERY nice to be able to delete individual log entries, if the way it is stored makes this possible (I understand it would be more difficult, though not impossible, if new entries' text is simply appended to a contiguous text string - but even then, there are character sequences that recur between entries, that could identify breakpoints between entries, allowing these to be deleted; or alternatively, some special character could be use to demarcate divisions between log entries.)

- Add elevation lines to jumpgates/TOAs in the radar - at present, it's close to impossible to tell where gates *actually* are, relative to the player, via the radar. This little addition would greatly enhance the radar's contribution to navigation.

- Attacking Xenon, CW and corporate ships in pirate space ought to buy goodwill with the pirates, from a logic and consistency point of view. Perhaps Yaki, too, as pirates and Yaki are supposedly enemies. Likewise, killing Xenon, CW, corp, and pirate ships in Yaki space ought to earn Yaki rep.

- Pirates need a shipyard or two. Anarchy ports could perhaps be granted some limited SY functionality. I suggest a small selection of pirate ships, as well as perhaps (to make things interesting) randomly selected, changing (the way the availability of M and L variants changes) one or two "captured" CW ships. Most importantly, the shipyard is needed as a black-market sink for pirated ships - at present, someone role-playing a pirate is forced to keep cordial relations with at least one CW/Terran faction, in order to have somewhere to sell excess ships. Also, a proper sink for looted munitions is needed - again, the Anarchy Ports could serve, and/or Pirate SEs, or Pirate Bases could be adjusted to accept sales of more items (in the same way that regular EqDs can buy just about any weapons and missiles, even though they may not stock those.)

- An interesting pirate start scenario would make a very nice addition, if not beyond the scope of a patch.

[Nanook]

...
- Attacking Xenon, CW and corporate ships in pirate space ought to buy goodwill with the pirates, from a logic and consistency point of view. Perhaps Yaki, too, as pirates and Yaki are supposedly enemies.

I disagree. Pirates, being pirates, aren't an organized group as such and pretty much act as individuals or small packs. They're more likely to view you as undesirable competition to their potential targets rather than like you for such actions.

Likewise, killing Xenon, CW, corp, and pirate ships in Yaki space ought to earn Yaki rep.

It already does.

[RAVEN.myst]

...
- Attacking Xenon, CW and corporate ships in pirate space ought to buy goodwill with the pirates, from a logic and consistency point of view. Perhaps Yaki, too, as pirates and Yaki are supposedly enemies.

I disagree. Pirates, being pirates, aren't an organized group as such and pretty much act as individuals or small packs. They're more likely to view you as undesirable competition to their potential targets rather than like you for such actions.

Likewise, killing Xenon, CW, corp, and pirate ships in Yaki space ought to earn Yaki rep.

It already does.

To the first: The way I see it, robbing the marks should demonstrate to the pirates that the player is also an outlaw. However, I also don't agree with myself 100% (Hey, I'm a Gemini, leave me alone! LOL!) but for a different reason than you: there's a problematic hole that can't be feasibly plugged, and that's the case of, say, a Terran soldier operating in pirate space and killing Argon ships. Is he demonstrating a criminal moral compass? Probably not - is probably simply following military orders. In such a case, gaining Pirate rep from it would be something of an exploit, tbh. So, ultimately, I think I have to withdraw that suggestion.

As for the second point: good to know, thank you. I wondered whether it might be the case, as Yaki are almost a hybrid of race and pirate, but closer to race in many ways. But since there is no visible metric for relations with them, I couldn't tell for sure.