Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'

[thetack]

will post it when i get home as i cant remeber the exact wording of the trojan ie the . ** part

[apricotslice]

online transactions through my paypal account.

That is one of the favorite sites used to dupe customers into giving their details.

The rule with paypal, is NEVER click a link. Always type in the url manually. Then you will never have a problem with it.

Paypal send out newsletters, which I delete. IMO they shouldnt, as it only encourages people to be stupid.

Paypal is the same as banks. Never click a link to any of them. Always type in the url manually.

And like all emails, mouse over the url on the email. If the displayed url is not identical to the typed url, then its a scam, delete.

[strude]

Regarding "middle ground"...

The middle ground is for those who are wary of Steam ,to try it on a rig that is not important.
If they have problems that they are unhappy about and can't be sorted,then they can just cancel the account and removed Steam from their setup.
If they are happy with the results then they can install on their main computer if they wish.

But this does not help those with only one rig.
As stated elsewhere I had Steam on my old rig.
Did not like it.
Only installed on this rig to get the "sunny place" DLC.

When I get the final full information of XR links to Steam,I will decide whether to download from Steam,or get the Retail boxed version,or just wait until the dust settles,bugs sorted and new cheaper version is released.

Depending on the hardware requirements, it could be set up within a virtual machine. I understand that there have been some improvements in VM setups since I last looked at them (I'm certainly no expert), even so far as exposing the actual hardware in the host machine to the VM. DirectX 9 should be fairly well supported within a VM environment by now,surely.

If this proves feasible, a Steam account could be used inside a VM indefinitely. The VM would only have Steam and Steam games installed, and it wouldn't have access to the main system, so there shouldn't be any security issues. The network could be left disabled if the player liked, except when authenticating or getting updates.

Possible issues (other than performance based) would be that each time the VM starts, Steam might detect it as a different machine, requiring re-authentication every time. This would be a minor problem in the case of just wanting the keep the VM network disabled. It would be a major problem if the internet is not always available to the player. It would not work if the player is trying to hold back on a patch, as the authentication process would likely download the patch.

As I said, I'm not expert at VMs, so I don't know if it's a viable option (I won't say solution), but could be worth checking out.

[greypanther]

Gavrushka, I made a similar comment, though not as well put several pages ago. I got ignored too. Round and round we go!

GCU Grey Area: You can get a pre paid credit card to use online. Even if the details are stolen, they cannot run up a bill, cos you can only spend what you have previously put on the card!

This link is for the UK.
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/prepaid ... 13084311:s

[Paranoid66]

I see there is no hope for people who are simply not online with their home PC. I used to be able to get patches via a friend's machine and registered via the library. Now I will not even be able to play the game. I guess that is progress.

To be honest I was expecting this as it is the way things are going we are all being forced onto the internet. I guess not buying and not playing this game will free up a lot of potentially wasted time.

[Cycrow]

online transactions through my paypal account.

That is one of the favorite sites used to dupe customers into giving their details.

The rule with paypal, is NEVER click a link. Always type in the url manually. Then you will never have a problem with it.

Paypal send out newsletters, which I delete. IMO they shouldnt, as it only encourages people to be stupid.

Paypal is the same as banks. Never click a link to any of them. Always type in the url manually.

And like all emails, mouse over the url on the email. If the displayed url is not identical to the typed url, then its a scam, delete.

this also applied to steam (as well as pretty much anything else)
most people who have had thier steam accounts hacked have clicked on links from emails offering free steam games

[fairywhipper]

yes, well the distinction of what we started and end up with are different but relate to the same thing.

i trust steam so much....
i have been given a code for a game to download and play via steam.
i trust it is a genuine code
yes, i might even try it one day in the next few years...... when/if i move to a choas infected urban area with highspeed uncapped internet access, and the steam client works without fault as much as vista, and i dont mind the multi-gb download and the associated baggage of third party software trying to by pass by security on my system...
that is how much i trust steam


hoping that rebirth will not be tainted with steam if/when i buy it.

[Slashman]

The bottom line is, as I see it: 'Does Egosoft see going with Steam to be a bigger disadvantage than going not going with it?'

A lot of developers, considering the popularity of the platform, apparently believe that its a desirable platform for both digital sales and the Steamworks features it can offer.

I personally see very little incentive for Egosoft to change their stance at this point. I just don't see any real downside apart from losing what is probably a small number of sales in comparison to what they'll gain.

The fact is that if Steam and Steamworks really did offer a bad experience and problems to the majority of end users that have and continue to use it, it wouldn't be a popular service. People would stop trusting it and Valve. That hasn't happened. And in fact, people generally protest when they can't get their favourite games on Steam.

[Le Baron]

The bottom line is, as I see it: 'Does Egosoft see going with Steam to be a bigger disadvantage than going not going with it?'

I guess that is not really the point. The question is, if an option besides Steam is worth the effort. I will not buy XR if I have to install / use Steam in any kind of way. But I would buy XR if it's available without Steam and I would not have any problems if there is a steamversion as well (like for TC). That way anybody can choose his preferred way of buying and using XR.

[Slashman]

The bottom line is, as I see it: 'Does Egosoft see going with Steam to be a bigger disadvantage than going not going with it?'

I guess that is not really the point. The question is, if an option besides Steam is worth the effort. I will not buy XR if I have to install / use Steam in any kind of way. But I would buy XR if it's available without Steam and I would not have any problems if there is a steamversion as well (like for TC). That way anybody can choose his preferred way of buying and using XR.

That is the point if you are talking about using Steamworks. Steamworks games require Steam for activation, saves and updating regardless of where you bought them. Just Cause 2 is a good example of this.

I actually thought that was what the discussion was about. A game wouldn't require Steam unless it was being released exclusively on Steam and/or it was using Steamworks for activation/DRM/updates.

As you said, TC does not require steam unless you bought the Steam version. A Steamworks version of a game would let you buy it anywhere but not let you use it unless you installed Steam.

[chew-ie]

The bottom line is, as I see it: 'Does Egosoft see going with Steam to be a bigger disadvantage than going not going with it?'

I guess that is not really the point. The question is, if an option besides Steam is worth the effort. I will not buy XR if I have to install / use Steam in any kind of way. But I would buy XR if it's available without Steam and I would not have any problems if there is a steamversion as well (like for TC). That way anybody can choose his preferred way of buying and using XR.

That is the point if you are talking about using Steamworks. Steamworks games require Steam for activation, saves and updating regardless of where you bought them. Just Cause 2 is a good example of this.

Finally, Slashman found the treasure.

[strude]

Just found this over in the Skyrim forums. Hopefully there is no rules about posting the link here?

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/t ... ry18502385

This poster has described a set of instructions that apparently have allowed him to keep Steam in offline mode for over 6 years. If people want to try it then be my guest. I guess he goes online from time to time to do updates and then follows the instructions again to go back to indefinite offline mode.

I take no responsibility for any issues that arise to your system or your Steam account. I can't imagine any problem though, as it's only using settings and options available to the standard Steam client. No hacks or modifications to Steam files. Just thought I'd share it as it seems something that some people might be interested in.

Edit: oh for anyone interested, their Steam discussion pretty much mirrors this one exactly, except they are due for release within a month.

[VincentTH]

Just found this over in the Skyrim forums. Hopefully there is no rules about posting the link here?

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/t ... ry18502385

This poster has described a set of instructions that apparently have allowed him to keep Steam in offline mode for over 6 years. If people want to try it then be my guest. I guess he goes online from time to time to do updates and then follows the instructions again to go back to indefinite offline mode.

I take no responsibility for any issues that arise to your system or your Steam account. I can't imagine any problem though, as it's only using settings and options available to the standard Steam client. No hacks or modifications to Steam files. Just thought I'd share it as it seems something that some people might be interested in.

Edit: oh for anyone interested, their Steam discussion pretty much mirrors this one exactly, except they are due for release within a month.

It is a real shame the user have to do all of that - in the name of progress - in order to play a single player game without being hacked by Steam!!!

There are times that I want Steam (achievements, MP play), but there are also times when I want to be left alone (mods, behind firewalls etc...)

[Asmodae]

The thing that bugs me about all this is the lack of foresight.

Let's just say for now that steam is everything the fans say it is, and that Valve is a model of virtue and would never do anything bad.

At some point the people at valve will retire or get different jobs. New people will be brought in, even if the current folks stay at Valve until they die of old age (unlikely). Valve WILL get a new CEO. Maybe Valve will get bought by MS or Google or Apple and get tied to their platform only. Or maybe AMD/Intel/nVidia will jump on Steam and tie it to their hardware over competitors. Eventually, things WILL change, and Steam will become managed by unscrupulous individuals, it's only a matter of time.

At which point what happens to those 100's, 1000's of games people have in their libraries they've been collecting all those years?

[chew-ie]

At which point what happens to those 100's, 1000's of games people have in their libraries they've been collecting all those years?

They´ll get the magic patch which will remove Steam requirements - an awesome little software product which isn´t even mentioned by the AGBs :>

[perkint]

And if you go to the bank there's a chance you might end up being shot by a bank robber, or mugged on the street, or your house might be hit by a meteor, or if you travel you'll be hijacked by terrorists and flown into a building.

It's called reasonable risk.

You quote being hit by a meteor and then talk about reasonable risk? The things you mention are probably several orders of magnitude less likely than being a victim of fraud. And, it is not as simple as you suggest - I have never followed a phishing link. I have never entered financial details into a dodgy site. I have certainly never (one of my pet hates!) used "The usual" or anything similar as a password hint (way to tell everyone what password you use for everything!). I use different passwords for different sites. And I've always used up to date anti-virus. But I've still been hit by credit card theft twice.

Yeah, I have never ended up out of pocket - always sorted by the bank, eventually. But it is still a lot of hassle when it happens!

Altho, having said that, I still transact on line, and I have used steam. No point worrying about things, and I am not going to let the little muppets prevent me from doing what I want - altho I wish the copper had given me the crooks details, but he refused

Tim

[Slashman]

The thing that bugs me about all this is the lack of foresight.

I'm all for foresight, when it doesn't devolve into downright paranoia...

Let's just say for now that steam is everything the fans say it is, and that Valve is a model of virtue and would never do anything bad.

I'm not sure there is anyone(myself included) who would actually say that outright, but OK...lets suppose for the sake of your argument.

At some point the people at valve will retire or get different jobs. New people will be brought in, even if the current folks stay at Valve until they die of old age (unlikely). Valve WILL get a new CEO. Maybe Valve will get bought by MS or Google or Apple and get tied to their platform only. Or maybe AMD/Intel/nVidia will jump on Steam and tie it to their hardware over competitors. Eventually, things WILL change, and Steam will become managed by unscrupulous individuals, it's only a matter of time.

By your logic...investing in anything from a company with the potential to 'turn bad' and possibly cause you to lose the use of a product you payed for, is pointless because said company/business will eventually sell their souls to the dark powers and on top of that, make it the first point of their new business model to hobble your access to your purchased goods. See how crazy that sounds?

Also...do you have any real idea of how many companies that people use and trust today are run by ruthless/immoral/downright unlikeable people? Including the companies that produce the food you consume everyday?

Does it really matter who's running the show if the company continues to produce a reliable and useful product? I'd think hard before answering, because it would probably make most of us hypocrites at the very least.

At which point what happens to those 100's, 1000's of games people have in their libraries they've been collecting all those years?

You know what? I'm 35. I honestly can't guarantee that I'm even going to be alive in 15 - 25 years, much less that I'll care about gaming at that point. I understand that there are several folks who will think differently about this, but I have a feeling that the number of those people aren't sufficient to influence a decision like that for Egosoft.

That is unless Egosoftt has determined that a large percentage of its customers are firmly against Steam use and will not buy their product if it is tied to Steam in any way. I personally am doubtful. And looking at the sales of other successful titles on Steam using Steamworks(or being Steam only titles)...I haven't seen that sort of thing impacting the success of a game.

[TTD]

altho I wish the copper had given me the crooks details, but he refused

I can't think why.I mean..what did he think you would do

Just found this over in the Skyrim forums. Hopefully there is no rules about posting the link here?

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/t ... ry18502385

Now I have not long come in from work.had my food and watch a little TV.
I switch on PC,load internet and check mail.
Come to this thread and your posted link.
I could just about manage to read half the instructions before my brain said it had had enough.
Now if just reading those instructions does that to me, am I likely to remember to do all that before I log of after my next Steam session?
Seems I am going have to be wide awake,find the link again,copy the instructions to hard copy and try to work my way through it all , just to play offline ,safely.

My reaction at the moment is "Just give me choice,DVD or Steam,as was done with TC."

[VincentTH]

altho I wish the copper had given me the crooks details, but he refused

I can't think why.I mean..what did he think you would do

Just found this over in the Skyrim forums. Hopefully there is no rules about posting the link here?

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/t ... ry18502385

Now I have not long come in from work.had my food and watch a little TV.
I switch on PC,load internet and check mail.
Come to this thread and your posted link.
I could just about manage to read half the instructions before my brain said it had had enough.
Now if just reading those instructions does that to me, am I likely to remember to do all that before I log of after my next Steam session?
Seems I am going have to be wide awake,find the link again,copy the instructions to hard copy and try to work my way through it all , just to play offline ,safely.

My reaction at the moment is "Just give me choice,DVD or Steam,as was done with TC."

I have read all 11 pages of that Bethesda thread, and the next 4 pages of the following thread. Just substitute Skyrim with X:R and Bethesda with Egosoft, and there you have it: The same discussion.
The only thing we have that they don't is the poll

In summary for those that don't have the time to read it:

Offline mode has a lot of problema. It will not be a 1-time activation like the Steam camp wants you to believe. You have to do the above-mentioned procedure to have a chance of running mods without worrying about conflicts between mods and patches.

Personally, I think it is too late to not accept Steam. The alternative is to not buy the game, but I feel for Bernd and the devs at Egosoft (Mind you I own 5 licenses of X3TC).
The only thing we can do is to ask Egosoft to make sure that the promise of a 1-time activation is confirmed and honoured by Egosoft. This is to ensure that we don't have to get online to play the game, and that we don't have to apply the patch if we don't want to.
Bernd and Ego devs are the only ones who can influence Steam/Valve to honour that commitment to us, the customer.

[Cycrow]

althou most of the offline problems are not recent.

there was an update a few weeks ago fixing the problems with offline mode, so unless the people with the problems have tried it recently, you cant really count them.

should people get turned off from TC because there are people complaining about bugs/missing features in 1.0 that had long since been fixed?

you do see alot of people complaining about steams instability, but have only actually used the beta version 10 years ago