Sadly, the game is getting a huge undeserved (!) shitstorm

[zerogodlike]

Yea the game is a train Wreck I wonder where all Money Went in development in someones pocket? Any ship Larger than a fighter is basically useless because the turret Ai is so bad that they cannot even hit a target that isnt moving. Half of the games features missing. I don't even know if the modders can salvage this one This was a complete lack of effort on the devs part.

[naisha]

Yea the game is a train Wreck I wonder where all Money Went in development in someones pocket? Any ship Larger than a fighter is basically useless because the turret Ai is so bad that they cannot even hit a target that isnt moving. Half of the games features missing. I don't even know if the modders can salvage this one This was a complete lack of effort on the devs part.

Now now ... I dont think this is true. Yes just he previous post i citicize the game but calling it a train wreck is just not true ... well, at least imo.

The game is playable (if only barely) and its fun for the most part (until you find a bug that ruins it) and I think its pretty. I looks good imo, a bit step up from XR i think.

Is it a good game? No.
Is it a bad game? No.
Is it a train wreck? Hell no.

Is it a buggy game but otherwise ok game with great potential? Yep.
Will it get fixed/improved in time? Im quite sure it will.

[zerogodlike]

Yea the game is a train Wreck I wonder where all Money Went in development in someones pocket? Any ship Larger than a fighter is basically useless because the turret Ai is so bad that they cannot even hit a target that isnt moving. Half of the games features missing. I don't even know if the modders can salvage this one This was a complete lack of effort on the devs part.

Now now ... I dont think this is true. Yes just he previous post i citicize the game but calling it a train wreck is just not true ... well, at least imo.

The game is playable (if only barely) and its fun for the most part (until you find a bug that ruins it) and I think its pretty. I looks good imo, a bit step up from XR i think.

Is it a good game? No.
Is it a bad game? No.
Is it a train wreck? Hell no.

Is it a buggy game but otherwise ok game with great potential? Yep.
Will it get fixed/improved in time? Im quite sure it will.

How long have you played? Ive played for about 65 hours and its only getting worst. The thing i am worried about is whether it will be fixed or not because modders are going to struggle modding the new engine and with the X-rebirth fiasco before it seems like Devs are getting either lazy or they are running low on the necessary funds. Because the game was shipped more like a alpha build with so much of missing. Like you Said They Didn't even do the encyclopedia correctly and thats just text and we are lacking descriptions on the weapons What can you really call that?

[naisha]

Yea the game is a train Wreck I wonder where all Money Went in development in someones pocket? Any ship Larger than a fighter is basically useless because the turret Ai is so bad that they cannot even hit a target that isnt moving. Half of the games features missing. I don't even know if the modders can salvage this one This was a complete lack of effort on the devs part.

Now now ... I dont think this is true. Yes just he previous post i citicize the game but calling it a train wreck is just not true ... well, at least imo.

The game is playable (if only barely) and its fun for the most part (until you find a bug that ruins it) and I think its pretty. I looks good imo, a bit step up from XR i think.

Is it a good game? No.
Is it a bad game? No.
Is it a train wreck? Hell no.

Is it a buggy game but otherwise ok game with great potential? Yep.
Will it get fixed/improved in time? Im quite sure it will.

How long have you played? Ive played for about 65 hours and its only getting worst. The thing i am worried about is whether it will be fixed or not because modders are going to struggle modding the new engine and with the X-rebirth fiasco before it seems like Devs are getting either lazy or they are running low on the necessary funds. Because the game was shipped more like a alpha build with so much of missing. Like you Said They Didn't even do the encyclopedia correctly and thats just text and we are lacking descriptions on the weapons What can you really call that?

True, I havent played much. I gave up on the game after about 4 hours or something. Couldnt refund the game obviously because i spent the first 2 hours figuring out how to actually play it. Ive seen enough in that time tbh to have reason to shelve the game until it gets fixed.

The game is in a pretty bad state, i dont dispute that but I dont think its a wreck. But this is just my view on it.

I am sure most things will get fixed either by egosoft or by the modding community, given time ofc. I dont think we are going to see the amazingly detailed and awesome mods we used to see in X3 but i guess that comes with a new engine.
Egosoft has proven in the past that they tend to stick with their games, updating, fixing stuff way beyond the release.

As for the encyclopedia thing ... that one is baffling to me. I cant think of a reason NOT to add in descriptions and such ... its just text, cmon guys!

[Drakuel]

I dont think it is black and white.. I think both sides of the reviews have fair points...

So many factors, some get worse bugs than others, depends on rig.. I never got CTD, but saw some on other streams, even certain bugs they got i didnt.. I think we all should put each other in each others shoes, my review would change completly depending on my run, better or worse depending what I saw in my run..

Putting all this to the side, there is some simple things I do feel Egosoft did not handle properly, if they wanted to really launch X4 to not only bring back there series but gain more players to their games. These are not bugs but just sheer lack of effort..

1. Incomplete encyclopedia.
2. No manual
3. No tool tips
3. Half done non tested tutorials.

Just these facts combined together, would send most new players to this series into frustration, then refund and angry reviews on other things.. Look I am a Egosoft fan and I can look through at the good things and potential, but never in any release has this simple lack of basic info about the base of gameplay was so lacking then in X4.. This shocked me to be honest, of all things I thought these simple tools would of been in and priority, if your goal is to bring new players into your game, especially with a entire new map and menu system.

If I was a brand new player and never played a X game before with basic info for me to learn basic things and I had to deal with bugs ontop of this, I would be SUPER frustrated as well. My first X game had a manual and detailed info descriptions on things, yes it was buggy as hell but I was able to feel I could progress, because I had some tools to help me along, I didnt feel completly useless like a idiot, I could read and go, ahhhh that makes sense.

To all those that feel frustrated, please give it time Egosoft or modders will get this right, there truly is a great game in there..

[numerialized]

No, it is well deserved. It is a software and a commercial product. People expect to get things for the money they pay. X4 does not deliver yet.
Personally, I am fine with existence of the bugs. I mean... Egosoft, from what I can derive, loves getting whipped by the community and create fantastic products. They seem to get... more creative and hard working with us all yelling at them.
And well... Personally, I asked for a prepurchase option and I am very glad to help them as much as I can. But let's be honest here, if I didn't know Egosoft's work so far, I'd be very pissed

[Zbrojny]

The reviews on Steam aren't that bad.

I was curious about the game, but remembered Rebirth launch, so I went to Steam, read some negative reviews (I only ever read those) to see how things are.

What I saw is a lot of the negative reviews actually speak fondly of the game, and are only negative for specific reasons that I was expecting (performance issues, UI issues, lacking tutoriuals). Most negative reviews are really saying "great game but...".

From the above mentioned, I only saw performance as an issue that would affect me, and seeing several patches being released mere days after release and knowing Egosoft's history of stalwart support in face of total catastrophe (X:R :>), I decided to buy in, and here I am. After yesterday's 1.2 update game runs smooth on my machine, and I had no other problems so far.

[SteveMill]

Unlike XR this isn’t a total train wreck. I didn’t refund. I speak well of it on the ED forums and gave it a Recommended review on Steam. Both heavily caveated.

But what gets me is that each release it’s the same thing. Turrets don’t work. Fighters don’t fight. Explorers won’t explore. Missions easily break. These are all things that are so obvious they must have come up in the first few hours of even the most cursory testing. They are things that are wrong in every release so why aren’t they the very first things tested?

Sadly it’s the same old story. Hit the Xmas market with whatever code there is in a playable state.

But this is also the thing - we knew that. Alpha code was being used for trailers. Ego said this just a few short weeks before launch. We knew then that the gsne wasn’t going to go through an iterative beta and release candidate testing process.

I knew what was going on but saw the excellent streams and thought unlike XR this was to a reasonable degree playable. (Getting respected tubers like Obsidian Ant was a genius marketing move) And it is.

Should companies put out games that are so far frim being finished? Of course not but they do. Should Egosoft at least insure the game doesn’t ship with the same basic bugs their previous ganes did? Again, sure. But they don’t.

Anyone who pays any attention at all know games companies shovel things out at Xmas for financial reasons and Egosoft games always give evey impression of being launched with basic features untested. If you buy an X game I’m afraid that’s the deal.

I knew the deal and bought it and X4 is in better state than most. Those of us who were around for X3TC or XR know what I mean.

What I also like about this release is the low key msrketing. There’s no massively overselling media campaign like with XR. It’s just been ‘watch these independent people play the game’. I really applaud that. If you held off purchasing a few days you’d see streamers running into issues as well.

There’s a great game that’s going to come out of this six months down the line and meanwhile we can have fun for a while working within the confines. Despite everything this is a welcome return to the series form and I don’t regret buying it.

Overall I feel that at some point as consumers we have to take some ownership of our choices. You buy an Egosoft game in release and you are buying an IOU. That is just how it is and widhful thinking when you press Buy will never change that. The good news is that eventually they over deliver on it.

I’m looking forward to what this game will become.

Meanwhile i think I might start up Terran Conflict again. I hear it’s almost finished.

[naisha]

[...]

I hear what you're saying and for the sake of it, I could forgive the coding part of the game not working properly because Egosoft (no one should do that tho, give egosoft or any other company a pass just because) but what about simple things like tooltips, encyclopedia, tutorials, a manual ... ? These things alone will make people mad, especially those new to the series.

Yes, a vet of the series might say "oh im used to it" and get over these things but this is just not right. Its not normal.

[BugMeister]

- already spending many happy hours, landing and taking off manually..
- I'm really excited by the prospect of it taking ages to master..

- if you know the X-series, you'll know exactly what I mean..

[SteveMill]

[...]

I hear what you're saying and for the sake of it, I could forgive the coding part of the game not working properly because Egosoft (no one should do that tho, give egosoft or any other company a pass just because) but what about simple things like tooltips, encyclopedia, tutorials, a manual ... ? These things alone will make people mad, especially those new to the series.

Yes, a vet of the series might say "oh im used to it" and get over these things but this is just not right. Its not normal.

None of it is right but at this point in the history of gaming in general and Egosoft in particular we knew what was going to happen. Especially with an Xmas release that came out of nowhere. It is normal for the games industry. Way worse practces like lootboxes and cut out content being sold as Day One DLC are normal. Hell, with Fallout 76 Bethesda has perfected the art of just taking your money in exchange for just stripping out the content of a prevoius game and adding a barely functioning multiplayer mod. The industry is full of crooks like Todd Howard, all of EA and Shawn Murray.

Egosoft aren’t crooks. They are just wildly over ambitious and cannot deliver on that promise within a financially viable time frame. Kind of like Star Citizen except with Egosoft there is a continuously improving product we can play rather than an ever-inflating pyramid scheme.

There should be a change in European law to fine companies that release games in the state that so many come out in but that’s not going to happen. The only option as consumers we have is not to buy. I do that all the time. Did it with XR and picked it up for nearly nothing way down the line. (Still wasn’t worth it). Governments aren’t going to help and companies are going to do whatever they can get away with.

In the case of X4 the consumer had all the information they needed to make an informed choice. We have to make our own informed choices.

For me it has been a worthwhile purchase despite current problems. Unlike with XR and it’s massively deceitful marketing campaign and pre-alpha code release, I didn’t feel misinformed and have been able to play with only minor issues by for now avoiding the problematic features. We have the working core of a great game and this is the core we saw on the pre launch streams. Good enough for me to make an informed decision to buy.

But yeah, I agree - absolutely this shouldn’t be how the world works but it is and as consumers we have to be all caveat emptor with our money.

If we have any sort of doubt don’t buy.

Speaking purely for myself - X4 has been a worthwhile buy. I’m having fun and the game will get better and better.

I understand why others have a different attitude though.

[naisha]

Egosoft aren’t crooks. They are just wildly over ambitious and cannot deliver on that promise within a financially viable time frame. Kind of like Star Citizen except with Egosoft there is a continuously improving product we can play rather than an ever-inflating pyramid scheme.

Well ofc they arent, i know that, I think we all know that. We've been around here for a while now ( I myself starting all the way back in X2) and we know how things are. Egosoft for all their faults (mostly to do with new releases) are some of my favorite devs, they tend to stick to their games way past release day.
Wish more developers would innovate and improve on their games instead of re-re-re-re-re-releasing the same game over and over again with a different paintjob from time to time.

In the case of X4 the consumer had all the information they needed to make an informed choice. We have to make our own informed choices.

Im sorry what?
Maybe for vets of the series.

Was there a disclaimer or did some dev say "Oh btw, before you buy, keep in mind half the game is a mess right now with lots of core features either not working properly if at all" ? I havent seen that. Maybe i just missed it.
How can a new to the series consumer know in what state the game is in? Just because there was a tag "Alpha build" in the trailer or something? That doesnt mean the release version is alpha state, not when they charge full price for it and dont have an EA tag on it.

For me it has been a worthwhile purchase despite current problems.

I can agree with that. I did consider refunding the game with the intention of buying it again later down the line for cheaper but thats because im cheap
Ultimately i dont think i've wasted my money, even tho I have shelved the game for now. It will get better, im sure of it and when it does, its gonna be great.

I didn’t feel misinformed and have been able to play with only minor issues by for now avoiding the problematic features. We have the working core of a great game and this is the core we saw on the pre launch streams. Good enough for me to make an informed decision to buy.

Avoiding problematic features doesnt make them less of a problem. Just because you decided to avoid them, doesnt mean others will. I personally cant play a game when part of it is not working. I want to have a full experience from day one.
I am more tolerant of bugs than the average joe but only if the bugs are not gamebreaking and/or dont cut my access to parts of the game.

And, again, what you say may only apply to vets, not to a new consumer/player who can only go by what is written on the product page and the occasional review (this game doesnt get much attention imo).

[Perahoky]

Hi together,

ich changed the first post a bit. fixed writing errors and changed the "complicated" to make it more clear what it is and what i mean.

Different opinions and criticism are always right.
But criticism and opinions should never be a nasty accusation.

I think the base of the game is good and the 20 people company will hopefully expand to 30 or 40.
The game needs some polishing and content.

Greetings

[EmperorDragon]

PC gaming is indeed in desperate need of proper trade regulation and consumer rights protection, there are in fact a myriad of legal transgressions in the industry From quality to third-party dependencies to distribution methods and pricing. It is in fact the industry with some of the highest levels of white-collar crime.

For example: A PC game requires third-party dependencies (Steam, Origin, Uplay...) and additional costs and services (internet access - sometimes permanent for no reason) to function, and retain little to no value after first use (quite often second-hand trading is even forbidden!). A console game have none of these drawbacks, yet the PC version of the same game is sold at exactly the same price. Third-party dependencies alone already diminish the value greatly. EULAs also often contain terms and conditions that's against the law and in violation of both consumer rights and basic human rights on trade and ownership.

And I'd rather not even start about this "DLC" trend of today...

Problem is, legal practitioners have no taste for taking on such cases, they compare it to taking on a bank - an endless minefield. Government-level and/or WTO intervention is required if developers, publishers and distributors are ever to be drawn back into the framework of the law.

As for the X games, well I just love them too much so I keep on buying them regardless. Never saw Egosoft as crooks, mostly just a small developer constantly pushing the limits of their capability.

[WurminatorZA]

The game does deserve its shitstorm, why you may ask because not being a fanboy doesnt blind the technical problems and missing features this game has. Ive played X since X2 and i have to say X4 feels like its in Beta. No VR/TrackIR support, bugs, CTD for some, Stupid AI the list goes on. So i have alot of confidence that egosoft will patch up the problems but as of release i dont see that this game is finished yet.

[kyoo]

Anything to do with AI in this game is such an awful state that it's not even functional most of the time.
Hostile factions get wiped out and turtle in their home systems after a few hours.
The economy comes to a grinding halt and irrecoverably crashes after around 40-50 hours because station output doesnt get moved and everything clogs up.
Not to mention the countless bugs and missing content.

I love egosoft and only bought at launch in order to support them but this is an early access title at best, launched as full release with a season pass. If I was buying it blind I'd probably be pretty angry about it.

[razorhead]

The game does deserve its shitstorm, why you may ask because not being a fanboy doesnt blind the technical problems and missing features this game has. Ive played X since X2 and i have to say X4 feels like its in Beta. No VR/TrackIR support, bugs, CTD for some, Stupid AI the list goes on. So i have alot of confidence that egosoft will patch up the problems but as of release i dont see that this game is finished yet.

Did you play X2 on release? Because I can tell you X2's release was far more buggy than X4's. But as you said, Egosoft does have a tendency to fix the problems in a timely manner in the end.

[WurminatorZA]

The game does deserve its shitstorm, why you may ask because not being a fanboy doesnt blind the technical problems and missing features this game has. Ive played X since X2 and i have to say X4 feels like its in Beta. No VR/TrackIR support, bugs, CTD for some, Stupid AI the list goes on. So i have alot of confidence that egosoft will patch up the problems but as of release i dont see that this game is finished yet.

Did you play X2 on release? Because I can tell you X2's release was far more buggy than X4's. But as you said, Egosoft does have a tendency to fix the problems in a timely manner in the end.

Yeah and X3 too

[Mavo Pi]

I love the game and can't get enough of it after 20 hours of playtime but some of the bugs should not have made it in any release version. The most prevelent ones for me are the npc ships often flying directly through the station (including my own ships), the turrets not firing and not receiving any war missions from the paranids after the first one.

Though I'm sure Egosoft will fix those bugs.

[Taramafor]

#edit: changed complicated part because it is not easy

At steam, people buy the game just to write a negative review, lying in the descriptions, searching problems and just refund to make some trouble.

That even means spamming "NO MANUAL!" or "JUST DIGITAL!" or "COMPLICATED!" (within 30mins play time?) all the time.

Take some hobbies.

@Egosoft @Steam please dont accept any undeserved refund. Its not correct.

We are not at "wish some stupid".

proof the game is working:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1d25lc ... he_YbI5c73
https://www.twitch.tv/cohhcarnage

It's not a question of wherever the game is "working". It's a question of whever the game is working WELL. I'll refer to my post in this thread and let it speak for itself (simply put, TC did the gameplay better while X4 nails the immersion). viewtopic.php?f=146&t=403214&start=60

I wouldn't say X4 is a "shit storm". But compared to past X games, in terms of gameplay (NOT including rebirth) then it is certainly lacking in terms of combat, action, tons of enemy ships in a sector (ever seen 100 xenon in a xenon sector with your very eyes?). etc, etc. This is of course using Terrain Conflict and Albion as examples. Rebirth was basically the "bare bones". Egosoft got away with bare bones last time because they never did it before. But they done it before so why not do it here? We have all the additions in X4 but it's been gutted as well. Which will likely tick the vets off more if anything. People with little to no experience of past X games might be more easily pleased because they have nothing to compare it too.

Doesn't help their case when there's no weapon descriptions before (in game) purchase. This of course leads to problems like "I have the credits, now how do I know it works before spending it". Problems will get fixed eventually (if past X games are anything to go by) but this is a bad release. It's buggy (talking being off map when checking my map here), it lacks polish and there's very little to do in the way of combat compared to past X games. I'm in a dog fighter. Why am I clearing mines and attacking a single person for wedding rings back? Sure, it adds more diversity WITH the combat missions, but where are my combat missions from past X games? The "Ohh, I'm on a bridge feeling" will wear off sooner or later. I need the gameplay here. And don't say trade or build. Combat has always been a core concept of the X games. BIG fights since AP (even rebirth). Not skirmishes (although that happens too. But it circles back to being a nice addition with the main meal).