Egosoft: Never again

[KiwiNZ]

Nobody expects you to lie but your comments were ONLY negative, which is essentially a lie in itself. The game isn't just bad. It has bugs, yes, I know. Can I play the game with these bugs? Yes. Are some of these bugs annoying? Yes. Do Egosoft have a history of fixing problems? Yes. Do they have a record of releasing a game with bugs to start of? Yes, but so does every other game company.

A person that ONLY praises is equally bad as a person that ONLY slanders a product. Just like you tell your customers that Windows is crap but it has certain advantages over the competition, you should also tell your customer that, with all the problems that occur, the game has a lot of positive points to it. From my personal perspective, it has more that speaks for it than against. I am too old to be a 'fan boy' and I never had a tendency to pain the sky bluer than it is. However, I also try not to let a bad experience ruin my perception.

[targetdrone]

thing is... i was enjoying x3.... after the first year or so...

in my personal opinion, if you ignore the features that are bugged atm in TC, you are basically left with X3+ UI mod....

there isnt really that much of a difference

so i find it hard to find something positive about TC that i cannot as well say about X3 in its final state. im sure i can find some unique positives in the future, maybe at the end of the year, maybe later, but tbh until then im left with a x3 that i paid for again.(edit) full price (/edit)

[KiwiNZ]

I would disagree with your sentiment. There are a ton of things that are better now than they used to be AND they are not bugged. The mission system that no longer requires to dock at every station being just one. Yes, the BBS was nice but I was so close to trying to write a script that'd allow me to check for missions, as I ended up scouting all stations, only to find a mission worth my time after 20 tries. Or take the boarding using marines. Ok, there are bugger all boarding pods available but there are enough people on here who have boarded all sorts of stuff using an M6 or a TP. This isn't bugged either. Or station building missions, fair enough, with a high economic rank you are getting paid more than the cost of station + TL, which is odd unless you use your imagination and assume that not everybody has the notoriety to buy a TL. Fair enough, these missions are broken in Terran space, as much as I noticed but that affects maybe 2% of game time if at all because living in Terran sectors is too slow due to lack of jump gates. Then there is a host of different combat missions available now. All of them work and aren't broken as such. There is a differing opinion in regards to number of enemies and payout. But that is just opinions, doesn't mean they are broken. You may consider the difficulty setting broken and perhaps you are right, it appears to be random but more often than not, an Easy mission did only spawn a few ships, though not consistently. There is more like it and certainly more of a change than just interface and higher resolution graphics.

[uxnhoj123]

Just because your computer is capable of running the game, doesn't mean it is fully compatible. You are the one complaining that the game isn't really playable on your hardware while others of us can play quite happily. What does that tell you? It tells me that your hardware may be more powerful or whatever, but it trips over something in the game. Considering how many different pieces of kit there are out there, how do you seriously expect any company to provide software that runs equally well on all? It just isn't going to happen. There is a reason why Apple keep their products uniform!

If anyone could tell the poor guy how his computer was "incompatible" with the game, then at least he'd have a chance to change it. As far as I know though, the problems' sources can't be diagnosed and it's pretty mean to point the finger at him and his computer for the game not working.

Fallout 3 had a ton of problems too; it worked on my computer but two of my friends kept getting CTD's constantly. As I recall, the blame for that was placed pretty universally on Bethesda. I havn't heard any resounding notions that some people just need to get on the ball and stop buying incompatible hardware/software. I think it's perfectly reasonable to do the same thing here and want a fix from Egosoft.

Terran Conflict does improve upon a lot of things, many are flawless in my eyes. I LOVE the new marine system and the wings work fine for me. But there are too many problems to overlook - as an example, I spent countless reloads today because of a single combat encounter. I accepted three missions since they all pay for each kill (which may be a bug in and of itself!) but my Osaka was useless because of the flak bug. After a dozen reloads, it finally worked and I managed to finish the missions. Lo and behold, it would seem the "Hold this Position" combat mission can be bugged and it would not pay me my 24 mil even after I destroyed everything. I also suffered from the M148 bug where argon would go hostile, and it took me forever to complete that stage even using a very fast fighter. Some bugs are OK, but ones that waste so much of my time, make me mutter "this is crap" and exit the program aren't.

Anyhoo, negative assessments of the game in the forums aren’t all that bad. To me, it means that at least people care about the game enough to vent and try to get their voices heard. Looking to belittle them seems so much less productive. Who cares if they can’t make a better product themselves, very few people could, but can you even imagine a game producer whose attitude is “well let’s see you make a better one yourself!”

As for Apple’s homogeneity, that’s a rant for another day on another forum

[targetdrone]

Or take the boarding using marines. Ok, there are bugger all boarding pods available but there are enough people on here who have boarded all sorts of stuff using an M6 or a TP. This isn't bugged either.

some of the changes you listed are cosmetic in nature, and weren't that much of a problem in old x3, especially if you had mods installed.

but that line i quoted stuck out on me, as exactly that stuff caused some additional aggravating hours today.
ok.. boarding pods are not avaialable (and i consider forgetting to add factories for a product a bug) so i have to go by marines.

now... aside from the fact that you have to navigate through some menus in order to reach the boarding command in the heat of the battle, if you are too far away (which easily happens when you overshoot your ideal drop position for that marines while you navigate some menus) the autopilot kicks in and..... goes circles?

wtf? why cant i simply push that damn marines out of the airlock? i mean, open your command console, select piracy, select board ship, select the sector you wish to board a ship in on the map, and then select the ship on the sector map all while i am trying to get into a favorable spot where my slowass marines actually have a chance of intercepting the targets path AND trying to keep the shields low enough without shooting too big chunks out of the targets hull can be really frustrating....

aside from simply seeding boarding pods, why oh why cant the boarding command not be linkable to a key, and with the preset for board my target? it might not be a bug, but a very poor design decision that you cant evade because of a bug (no boarding pods )


long story short, after 2 hours of either loosing marines, damaging the target too far, having failurs on the hacking (can happen too) or getting fried by the autopilot driving me out of the blind spot i gave up and blew that brigantine to hell.... i have a batch of fully trained marines, but i guess im not going to use them for the next half of a year or so....

[Cycrow]

just because you cant get it working, or that it doesn't work the way you want it to, doesn't mean its a bug, or broken.

and if you go around telling ppl that it is impossible to use marines, then you are lieing.

as the fact is, there are plenty of ppl who have managed to get it working just fine.

as for the boarding pods, they are available, maybe not all that easy to find, but you can get some at least. And again, ppl have managed to get some and use them fine.

and of course, your assuming that everything in the universe has to have a factory to create them, otherwise its a bug ?

what about the terran sector, they dont have factories to product alot of there wares, do you also consider that a bug as well ?

[Tiedyeguy]

...as for the boarding pods, they are available, maybe not all that easy to find, but you can get some at least. And again, ppl have managed to get some and use them fine.
and of course, your assuming that everything in the universe has to have a factory to create them, otherwise its a bug ?
what about the terran sector, they dont have factories to product alot of there wares, do you also consider that a bug as well ?

It is a difference of opinion between the dev's view of what the game should be and the views of the general player population. I do believe that one of the official Dev team did say the boarding pods thing is semi-buggy. Personally, I think having to know where the closest few Pirate Bases are to a starting location, then flying like a bat out of hell to them ASAP just to buy the pods is an exploit. Same with whacking the PBs and hoping to find the respawn before it loses the pods forever is also an exploit. Being forced to use one of two very specific exploits to get a ware is a bug IMHO.
As for Terran sectors, it's probably not in the bug stage, but it is a considerable pain in the ass none-the-less.

[Mars Mug]

what about the terran sector, they dont have factories to product alot of there wares, do you also consider that a bug as well ?

Being sold an Osaka while there are no PSPs in the universe is criminal? Are you really suggesting that this is an intended feature?

[TwoHedWlf]

I always think that there are these HUGE planets which must have billions of people on them and a massive industrial base, I see no reason that they can't be assumed to produce a lot of products too?

[Poobah]

just because you cant get it working, or that it doesn't work the way you want it to, doesn't mean its a bug, or broken.

That's somewhat of a sweeping generalisation. You can't justifiably say that all problems encountered with X3:TC are the fault of the user, the very fact that Egosoft are working on a patch implies otherwise. Of course some may be, but you can't say that all are.

and if you go around telling ppl that it is impossible to use marines, then you are lieing.

as the fact is, there are plenty of ppl who have managed to get it working just fine.

Don't disagree with anything here.

as for the boarding pods, they are available, maybe not all that easy to find, but you can get some at least. And again, ppl have managed to get some and use them fine.

The fact also remains that getting them is anoying and requires that one destroy pirate stations and track down the respawns, which seems like somewhat of a clunky method. Also it isn't exactly in-character as it were - things are supposed to be immersive and so fourth in X games, you shouldn't have to think about 'playing' the game - using exploits and so fourth, thus I don't think Ego intended exactly the current method of acqusition.

and of course, your assuming that everything in the universe has to have a factory to create them, otherwise its a bug ?

what about the terran sector, they dont have factories to product alot of there wares, do you also consider that a bug as well ?

Well if you can't purchase the stations to fill the niche then it's pretty bad universe building, yeah. Why put those things in the game otherwise?

[eladan]

@KiwiNZ, while targetdrone handled it maturely, your first response to him crossed the line. Please keep the personal stuff out of it.

Fallout 3 had a ton of problems too; it worked on my computer but two of my friends kept getting CTD's constantly. As I recall, the blame for that was placed pretty universally on Bethesda. I havn't heard any resounding notions that some people just need to get on the ball and stop buying incompatible hardware/software. I think it's perfectly reasonable to do the same thing here and want a fix from Egosoft.

While there is at least one known issue in TC which is causing a CTD, random CTDs are almost certainly due to system problems, rather than game problems, such as old/buggy drivers or incompatible codec packs. Egosoft doesn't have the power to fix such issues other than offering suggestions on what the problem component could be (via tech support.)

[esd]

just because you cant get it working, or that it doesn't work the way you want it to, doesn't mean its a bug, or broken.

That's somewhat of a sweeping generalisation. You can't justifiably say that all problems encountered with X3:TC are the fault of the user, the very fact that Egosoft are working on a patch implies otherwise. Of course some may be, but you can't say that all are.

What generalisation? He's quite correctly said that just because it's not how you want or you can't work it doesn't mean it's a bug or broken.

There are several possibilities, including end-user not knowing how to work a particular part of the game, ranging to the end-user simply not agreeing with the developer's vision of what the game should be like. Or it could be a bug (he didn't say it definitely wasn't a bug).

He never said that "all problems encountered with X3:TC are the fault of the user" and you're misrepresenting what he said with that remark.

and of course, your assuming that everything in the universe has to have a factory to create them, otherwise its a bug ?

what about the terran sector, they dont have factories to product alot of there wares, do you also consider that a bug as well ?

Well if you can't purchase the stations to fill the niche then it's pretty bad universe building, yeah. Why put those things in the game otherwise?

The Terrans appear to be a special exception - they're not going to sell you stations on the basis of security, it appears. This is plot consistancy. Sure, there could be better methods to enable you to entice the Terrans to build more, but it is feasible that it's a design decision to restrict users from getting Terran equipment too quickly. I'm not saying that is the case, but I'm not saying it's not either. I don't know

[targetdrone]

as this has been argumented here... about the boarding pods ...

i dont need a factory to produce them myself

im all happy if the npcs are building them somewhere and i either can cap freighters carrying them or buy them at piratebases that are restocked...

but so far i have to see a pirate base getting a shipment of boarding pods.... and i had them all mapped out and dropped adv.sats so i can monitor them

for a long time, there wasnt a single boarding pod available.

i am aware of the workaround where ihave to destroy the pirate bases and wait for them to respawn, with me jumping there fast before the 1 (one !!) boarding pod that is awailable at a fresh base being consumed/destroyed (seems pbs are working like equipment docks... meaning there would have to be a supply of the wares somewhere to get delivered there where they get consumed over time)

as i said, that never happened.

also, the terran sectors...

i am ok with the factories not being buyable.. but then, there should be a routine that refreshes any factories getting destroyed... or else you might encounter a game where due some unlucky circumstances new terran ships (or ships where equipment gets destroyed) are only worth their cost in scrap...

[phoenix-it]

I've defended them quite a bit, but the more I play the more irritated some things make me. In fact, the game got on a real nerve recently when I started building complexes and realized that there is STILL no large crystal fab in the game which makes it difficult to build a balanced SPP (L) complex.

Being a programmer myself, even if a little green, I have come to one conclusion: They're sloppy. It seems that they're cramming so many ideas into they game that they're taking little time to make sure that they all work properly.

I do like the game, and am glad they're making it. But, I do wish they would get some focus on the delivery.

[pjknibbs]

Being sold an Osaka while there are no PSPs in the universe is criminal? Are you really suggesting that this is an intended feature?

I don't have any problem at all seeing that as an intended feature, for the simple reason that Terran ships are simply more powerful than most other ships in the universe. The low availability of Terran guns is, IMHO, the balance to that to ensure that people don't own entire fleets of overpowered capital ships. Of course, I stress that this is my personal opinion--I have no idea what the thinking was at Egosoft when they did this!

[targetdrone]

Being sold an Osaka while there are no PSPs in the universe is criminal? Are you really suggesting that this is an intended feature?

I don't have any problem at all seeing that as an intended feature, for the simple reason that Terran ships are simply more powerful than most other ships in the universe. The low availability of Terran guns is, IMHO, the balance to that to ensure that people don't own entire fleets of overpowered capital ships. Of course, I stress that this is my personal opinion--I have no idea what the thinking was at Egosoft when they did this!

i think we are talking two different things.... as i stated before, i dont mind terran weapons to be rare, hell thats quite ok.... whats not ok is if terran weapons arent available at all due to the respective stations not existing anymore... and it doesnt seem as if these stations get rebuilt ...

[Mars Mug]

The low availability of Terran guns is, IMHO, the balance to that to ensure that people don't own entire fleets of overpowered capital ships.

There’s a bit of a difference between low and none.

I really don’t see this as some sort of balancing act, in my game universe there was a sum total of four PSPs, barely enough to make a single ship useful. Knowing how these things get deleted I could have just as easily had none at all.

As a logical view from a ‘Terran’ perspective it makes no sense, they supply capital ships but to be fair to the rest of the universe they give them no teeth?

The obvious answer to balancing weapons power would be to make the powerful weapons less powerful, not turn them into rocking horse poo.

But thanks for making me smile Paul

[ctdking]

X3: TC could be broken up into about 3 games, a combat sim, and economic sim and a graphics demo, and still be three entertaining "games". The amount of bugginess that is acceptible to your average player is a matter of degree, but for a project of this scope, it's really not that bad. This project would be a nightmare to test, as everyone plays the game completely differently.

Most bugs are not gamebreaking, have workarounds and will be patched by Egosoft. Look at X3:R and how far it's come, and the fanbase has the expectation that X3: TC will come just as far.

Chill, have patience and backup your saves often. Enjoy what's here to enjoy and when you run into a bug post it in technical support and someone will probably tell you how to get around it until it's fully patched.

And to those who call this game a beta... even if that's the case it's still the best open ended space sim on the market by a country mile.

[Mars Mug]

For a fanbase used to previous versions of the game most of what you say may be fine, but for someone picking up X-TC off the shelf for the first time and then coming here with a problem it might be a tad disappointing.

The excuse that there are other software titles in a worst state with poorer support has been used several times now, I think I will try that one next time I develop a nuclear safety system.

If something is too complex to test, then it’s too complex to sell.

As I have said elsewhere, and I think others have in a different way, a list of bugs and workarounds would satisfy a lot of people. In my case I have hit three bugs, two mission related one general. I lost a passenger in a ship transfer, had to re-start from the beginning. I have a Khaak station that cannot be destroyed, waiting in the hope that a patch fixes this. I have a ship that when bought could only be fitted with four of its prime weapon, no others existed, I resorted to cloning. If I had seen these in a concise list along with other problems I could have avoided at least two out of those three (it takes one problem to cause me to look for others).

[ctdking]

I don't believe the software is too complex to test, it is too hard to test every use case of this software with possible hardware configurations which may only mariginally support the software. People do 'inventive' things to software as I'm sure you're well aware, and mapping everything everyone could do in this game is an exercise in futility. Do I think due dilligence in QC was done? Absolutely.

Comparing this against creating a nuclear safety system is silly. Unless you have to install that safety system on thousands of unknown hardware/OS combinations and then have each user try to use it differently without training. You don't run your shop like that, but that is egosoft's reality. As well, this is a game, please do not forget that. Nuclear safety systems hold lives in the balance.. if X3:TC fails, I turn off the computer and do something else.

I agree that a known issues/workaround list would really help. But in absence of that, a quick search of the forums has helped me a lot and I have no gamebreaking issues that haven't been worked around. Of course, you should back up your saves often, and you wouldn't have had to restart from your passenger bug if you had done that.