If you had to choose one thing for X4...

ZaphodBeeblebrox · Post by **ZaphodBeeblebrox** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 14:37

Well would it be an X game if the Universe was different?

I've played 2 and 3, to be honest, I was hoping the Universe would be quite different, so I could enjoy that sense of exploration that I got in 2 but not 3.

Is the X series dependant on the current Universe map?

I don't think so, wars, gate destruction and exploration could easily result in an entirely different map. Sure some sectors would be recognisable, even if only by name.

Change is the only constant. So new map, new factions, new races. Still going to be X tho.

esd · Post by **esd** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 14:41

Sure, but you said a different universe, a whole new one in fact. That's not the same thing as a new map system. Afterall, the fiction does allow for the Ancients to completely realign all the gates, possibly even restoring "Gate Network A" (The X-Universe we know resides in "Gate Network B").

If it were in a completely new universe, it wouldn't be an X game - it'd be a whole different game.

ZaphodBeeblebrox · Post by **ZaphodBeeblebrox** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 14:47

OK, *puts hands up and surrenders* guess I'll have to be more careful how I post stuff in future.

........ Now can I sneak this in, make the sectors into solar systems......

*sneaks back out again*

Post by **Cycrow** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 15:42

esd wrote:
One thing that I think we all agree worked very well in Freelancer even if it was a bit hammy...
Nope, didn't like it's implimentation one bit. Everything with the same top-speed in cruise (hell, all the time!) was just rediculous. If you have to have that sort of point-to-point mega-turbo, accelleration should depend on mass, any top speed imposed should depend on maximum power outputs (we don't have to stay too close to r/l physics here) of the individual vessels, and you certainly shouldn't be able to steer - I think it should be an autopilot straight-line point-to-point drive, if anything.

funninly enuf, thats exactly how the slipstream drive works in the firelance mod

althou the main things i liked in freelancer was sthe different factions and the trade lanes

g04tn4d0 · Post by **g04tn4d0** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 16:27

Yeah, I loved the trade lanes in Freelancer. I even liked the gates. At least they gave you something kewl to watch while it loaded instead of a black screen and silence.

trade lanes > SETA

hyperdrive > gate-based jumpdrive

Probably the only things I'd change about X3 if given the chance.

rolfness · Post by **rolfness** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 16:40

none of the above..

my choice..

ninja space vixens with disproportionately large boobies FTW !

silentWitness · Post by **silentWitness** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 17:10

I think the game needs to step back from SETA... but we still need a way to speed us on our way...

tuatha · Post by **tuatha** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 17:18

Sounds like you need a game thats holds your hand the whole way through.Open ended is prefered by some however I suggest mario cart or something for you

Well if there's one certainty on the internet it's that somebody, somewhere is just itching to wilfully misinterpret your opinion in order to try (very poorly I might add) to insult you.

Cycrow wrote:personally, i think it would be best to not have a single main plot, but to have lots of mini plots, especialyl for an open ended game.

them mini plots could be triggered at certain points. So sya you get to a high notority with argon, you could then be called into action with a small plot helping out the argon in same way.

That's not a bad idea... my big problem with X3 is the fact that there really is nothing of any particular worth to work for in the game once the storyline is over. So you can make lots of money... great but there's only a very limited number of things you can do with it.

Some interesting incentives like you've suggested would be good. There's a fine line between open-endedness and mind-numbing tedium imo... as it stands I think X3 is treading just the wrong side of that line.

Maybe egosoft should just choose which type of game they want this to be and put all their effort into making it the best of its type available. Either make it a great space-sim or a great space game . Either is fine by me (though I suspect most people here would hate to see it become the latter

).

As it stands it seems like they're having difficulty making it both and too much is being lost to what is basically a compromise solution.

edit;

Rolfness wrote:ninja space vixens with disproportionately large boobies FTW !

Actually forget all the above, I want the ninja vixens too

ZaphodBeeblebrox · Post by **ZaphodBeeblebrox** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 17:27

I have said this before in a number of posts.

Sector design, complexity and size are all limited due to the use of the SETA mechanism. See any post on multiplayer, and it is universally agreed that SETA must go.

Also the Universe and Sector maps are limiting factors.

So if you want lots more sectors, or very large sectors with multiple areas of interest, then SETA, and the current Universe and Sector maps must go.

tuatha · Post by **tuatha** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 17:34

Oh one other thing:

If ego were to go the direction of turning X into an all out trading/empire building sim wouldn't it be great if you could forcefully take over systems? Effectively starting wars with the previous owners and having to defend your new system(s) against efforts to reclaim it?

I think that would be great... I don't think it's such a far-fetched concept either.

edit; zaphod could you provide a link to a post where you outline your reasons for that? I'd be interested to read it.

mrbadger · Post by **mrbadger** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 17:43

In my current game I've done without SETA entirely.

I didn't exploit it before (well, I did in X2, just not X3), but I was wondering why some people went without it.

It changes the game a lot. For one thing I spend most of my time in a scoutship. It has stopped me using the Boron Dolphin Super frieghter myself though, some things are just too slow for life without SETA.

I find you really start to think about the ships you use. I now take a little more interest in the ships speed versus carrying capacity.

I caved this weekend and collected a couple of free ships, but I can only do so much

In my defence I've left almost all of them. I want the scorpian at some point though, that's a cool ship, if hard to get.

I'd be happy if SETA was removed from X completelly. It isn't needed really, at least not to make the game fun. Or so I feel now.

mrbadger · Post by **mrbadger** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 17:46

tuatha wrote:
If ego were to go the direction of turning X into an all out trading/empire building sim wouldn't it be great if you could forcefully take over systems? Effectively starting wars with the previous owners and having to defend your new system(s) against efforts to reclaim it?

There is a script that does this.

tuatha · Post by **tuatha** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 17:51

Is it any good?

Sometimes community mods/scripts are.... well... kinda crappy.

ZaphodBeeblebrox · Post by **ZaphodBeeblebrox** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 18:02

SETA works by "speeding up time", so in multiplayer this clearly cannot work, as all players must have the same experience of the passage to time.

So, if one person SETA's, everybody has to SETA to maintain the shared passage of time.

Go to a large sector in X3 and fly between the two most distant gates, use SETA on 6X the game default.... bored yet.

See those Planets in sectors, they are objects, and also the distant moons. Try flying around the planet or to the distant moon. Are you really bored yet.....

So very large sectors, or those built to represent solar systems would be near impossible to navigate using only SETA. So this is a limiting factor on the size and complexity of sector design.

Now the maps, two dimensional representations of 3 dimensional space, with limits on what can be viewed.

silentWitness · Post by **silentWitness** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 18:04

SETA needs to go but something must replace it to allow for greater speed... Slipstream works very well... Pirate could set up nets or interdictor fields to catch traders unaware...

esd · Post by **esd** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 18:08

SETA needs to go

Again this is one of those things I disagree with. SETA and gates are absolutely fine with me (and I really don't care for a multiplayer X, myself). I'd much rather time and effort went into being able to customize your own vessels, by modular building, by paintjobs, by player logos, etc simply because everything does a "go faster drive" while SETA feels logical. Gate layouts are sort of logical, afterall the X races are literally rats in a maze thanks to the Ancients.
With the gate layout, I find it fairly logical that most things would happen in or around the area "fenced off" by gates.

Have the Ancients do a rework of the gate network, and hey-presto, a new universe configuration.

enenra · Post by **enenra** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 18:13

As I said in the german thread. I like all ideas but I would prefer the part with the planets and planetoids

ZaphodBeeblebrox · Post by **ZaphodBeeblebrox** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 18:22

esd

Gate layouts are sort of logical, afterall the X races are literally rats in a maze thanks to the Ancients.
With the gate layout, I find it fairly logical that most things would happen in or around the area "fenced off" by gates.

Have the Ancients do a rework of the gate network, and hey-presto, a new universe configuration.

I prefer space to have three dimensions, it certainly is when I'm flying. So I would like to have a cubic representation of a sector. This I could rotate, or zoom in on mouse selected co-ordinates in space. I would like sectors to be larger and contain multiple areas of interest. More like solar systems. Such large sectors would provide many more areas to explore.

esd · Post by **esd** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 18:26

So the issue's more with the interface than the basic premise of gate layout? Afterall, you can access the Y axis by hitting INS on your keypad.

Trouble with the 3D map is because we're land-based creatures, 2D maps are much more familiar and easy to read. A fair few people get into serious difficulty with 3D maps (just look at Homeworld - great game, but trying to get your ships to converge somewhere on a different point on the y axis can be a royal pain the bottom).

jrd417 · Post by **jrd417** » Mon, 18. Sep 06, 18:31

Modular ships gets my vote. I would like to add better shields and we could have a COCKPIT.

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If you had to choose one thing for X4...

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