Jump Drives - 6 Years Later, Still Nothing?

[Ragnos28]

I am glad jump drives are gone and what is the point of this conversation? The decision from Egosoft isn't going to change.

Well, some players are not as glad as you that jump drives are gone, the discussion is about possible advantages/disadvantages of jump drive in regards of X4 gameplay, and even if the decision from Egosoft isn't going to change, we can still express our opinions about it, at least I think we do , if that is not allowed, please let us know.

No one said it wasn't allowed, I just don't understand why the need to get so passionate for something that is not going to change but you do you.

Well, if memory serves me, Bernd Lehmann himself, in one of his interviews with Captain Collins, said something along the lines of "If you want a certain change in X4, you should make a pull on Egosoft forums, and if it gains enough traction, we might consider it". So, in theory, discussions could lead to change, and why I believe that this particular issue of jumpdrives should make the subject of a pull.
If the majority of players, go with "no, no, I enjoy spending many many hours just moving my carrier on the map, for me this is top X4 gameplay content", well the majority has spoken, we love democracy.

But positions like..."I don't enjoy this <insert perk, cheesy tactic, etc>, so no one should be able to use it in their games, because for some reason, I really really want to dictate what other ppl can do in their games, that don't affect me "...come out a bit obnoxious. For example, I don't use fly by boarding, I consider it cheesy, but I don't go around on the forums...."please Egosoft, remove the possibility of fly by boarding occuring, I really don't like
fly by boarding, I think it affects the balance of the game, so please prevent all the other X4 players from using it in their games".

[humility925]

I am glad jump drives are gone and what is the point of this conversation? The decision from Egosoft isn't going to change.

Well, some players are not as glad as you that jump drives are gone, the discussion is about possible advantages/disadvantages of jump drive in regards of X4 gameplay, and even if the decision from Egosoft isn't going to change, we can still express our opinions about it, at least I think we do , if that is not allowed, please let us know.

No one said it wasn't allowed, I just don't understand why the need to get so passionate for something that is not going to change but you do you.

I guess some people as client/customer was keep feedback to improve game, although some might see this improve, and some don't, depend on point of views since not all same. As long as features wasn't in game or there is sort of flaw game like not able to save slow ship from enemies or want speed up large ship here to there to save allied or their fleet here or there, people would keep feedback or suggest once in while again and again once in while even although developer might said no in the past. I already create similar topic about this issues long ago like 6 year ago, then 4 year ago, it's been long time and there is other couple player do create similar topics as well, it's not first time someone bring up and likely not last.

teleport don't save any personal ship at all unless ability to teleport your personal ship out of danger zone or quicker here and there, similar like jump drive, I guess. It's all come down, 2 big reason is save ship or get there asap to other side to save other friendly ship/personal ship, whole reason is save ship from destruction, one might said why not build or buy other ship, but when I said personal ship, I meant custom upgrade of craft improve on ship and paint skins, both are very limited resource, I guess. That is lot of time to collect limited resource to just upgrade or custom upgrade ship.

[lordmuck]

Well, some players are not as glad as you that jump drives are gone, the discussion is about possible advantages/disadvantages of jump drive in regards of X4 gameplay, and even if the decision from Egosoft isn't going to change, we can still express our opinions about it, at least I think we do , if that is not allowed, please let us know.

No one said it wasn't allowed, I just don't understand why the need to get so passionate for something that is not going to change but you do you.

Well, if memory serves me, Bernd Lehmann himself, in one of his interviews with Captain Collins, said something along the lines of "If you want a certain change in X4, you should make a pull on Egosoft forums, and if it gains enough traction, we might consider it". So, in theory, discussions could lead to change, and why I believe that this particular issue of jumpdrives should make the subject of a pull.
If the majority of players, go with "no, no, I enjoy spending many many hours just moving my carrier on the map, for me this is top X4 gameplay content", well the majority has spoken, we love democracy.

But positions like..."I don't enjoy this <insert perk, cheesy tactic, etc>, so no one should be able to use it in their games, because for some reason, I really really want to dictate what other ppl can do in their games, that don't affect me "...come out a bit obnoxious. For example, I don't use fly by boarding, I consider it cheesy, but I don't go around on the forums...."please Egosoft, remove the possibility of fly by boarding occuring, I really don't like
fly by boarding, I think it affects the balance of the game, so please prevent all the other X4 players from using it in their games".

exactly! If its a tactic or function that I find that the player can only do that is cheesy or broken OP I choose not to use it rather than pissing on people's thoughts/requests that makes sense to them. But hey, xenon and khaak have it.

[Staberind]

At the end of the day, You can use the cheat package or other mods to "cheat in" ship Jumping, the game is not balanced around it, its more the "sedate" ring highway of getting to far points "quicker" system that the game is built around.
Once enabled you can right click jump anywhere, combined with personal teleportation you can piece by piece jump a fleet across the map, using no ecells or beacons. But, that means installing a cheat menu and having the willpower not to use the other bits,

[Ragnos28]

At the end of the day, You can use the cheat package or other mods to "cheat in" ship Jumping, the game is not balanced around it, its more the "sedate" ring highway of getting to far points "quicker" system that the game is built around.
Once enabled you can right click jump anywhere, combined with personal teleportation you can piece by piece jump a fleet across the map, using no ecells or beacons. But, that means installing a cheat menu and having the willpower not to use the other bits,

Except that getting that "modified" tag mean that you lose all and any tech support for the game, bonus, if you encounter a bug, you can't even report it in a hope that it will get fixed, because if you as much as mention the word mode you get...sorry, can't help, sucks to be you buhaha ...so, for me, and I suspect for many others, "just mode it" is not a solution.

[jlehtone]

Except that getting that "modified" tag mean that you lose all and any tech support for the game, bonus, if you encounter a bug,

... you would need an unmodified save, where you reproduce the bug and report that.


[EDIT]

whole reason is save ship from destruction, one might said why not build or buy other ship, but when I said personal ship, I meant custom upgrade of craft improve on ship and paint skins, both are very limited resource, I guess. That is lot of time to collect limited resource to just upgrade or custom upgrade ship.

The legendary Squiddy McSquids possibly short life told us that RSLG is the way to keep your personal ship alive. To think before one puts the precious into predicament, because dead will be dead. Gandalf put the same: "Keep it secret. Keep it safe."

Note that Squiddy had access to JumpDrives, but still chose to not take unnecessary risks.


An issue with "Don't do it" is that we are humans. It can be hard for us to justify ourselves why we should send the fellowship into wilderness, when our eagle squad could deliver the ring in no time. Yes, that is about self-control (or lack of) -- not an issue for everyone.

[Ragnos28]

Except that getting that "modified" tag mean that you lose all and any tech support for the game, bonus, if you encounter a bug,

... you would need an unmodified save, where you reproduce the bug and report that.

Is part of the reason for which I have 4.872 hours of pure vanilla. Would be too much hastle for me to install mods, deactivate mods, reproduce the scenarios to showcase the bugs, activate mods again and so on.
The fact is that mode users are being punished, so to avoid all that...yay, team vanilla rules.

That being said, if an "Andromeda Ascendant" mode for X4 is ever being made, I will be...vanilla who?
This is what I mean: https://youtu.be/BbTa5A1oN1Q

[jlehtone]

Would be too much hastle for me to install mods, deactivate mods, reproduce the scenarios to showcase the bugs, activate mods again and so on.

AFAIK, one can have more than one installation of the game; one for vanilla and other for modded. Granted, even that does require some file juggling.

[Ragnos28]

AFAIK, one can have more than one installation of the game; one for vanilla and other for modded. Granted, even that does require some file juggling.

Having multiple instalments of X4 is not really an option for me, my SSD is already "screaming" for space, I actually had to move some games from my Steam library to the generic HDD. Games updates are also a pain, for the space they require to complete.

[jlehtone]

Having multiple instalments of X4 is not really an option for me, my SSD is already "screaming" for space, I actually had to move some games from my Steam library to the generic HDD. Games updates are also a pain, for the space they require to complete.

That is indeed an issue; software eagerly uses all the hardware that we can muster. I do remember how Frontier: Elite II did come in one 720 kB FD floppy. At that time some titles were already on multiple CDs. Those days are long gone.

[chew-ie]

AFAIK, one can have more than one installation of the game; one for vanilla and other for modded. Granted, even that does require some file juggling.

Having multiple instalments of X4 is not really an option for me, my SSD is already "screaming" for space, I actually had to move some games from my Steam library to the generic HDD. Games updates are also a pain, for the space they require to complete.

A 4 TB NVMe solved that "problem" quite nicely for me :]

[Ragnos28]

AFAIK, one can have more than one installation of the game; one for vanilla and other for modded. Granted, even that does require some file juggling.

Having multiple instalments of X4 is not really an option for me, my SSD is already "screaming" for space, I actually had to move some games from my Steam library to the generic HDD. Games updates are also a pain, for the space they require to complete.

A 4 TB NVMe solved that "problem" quite nicely for me :]

I've checked the prices for that one, the cheapest I could find is about is 1/4 of the price of a PC with the recommended specs for X4, so is kinda steep for me.

[Staberind]

Having multiple instalments of X4 is not really an option for me, my SSD is already "screaming" for space, I actually had to move some games from my Steam library to the generic HDD. Games updates are also a pain, for the space they require to complete.

A 4 TB NVMe solved that "problem" quite nicely for me :]

I've checked the prices for that one, the cheapest I could find is about is 1/4 of the price of a PC with the recommended specs for X4, so is kinda steep for me.

They are still holding their price, I got one on sale ages ago and they are still silly money, but I guess worth it. also the rec/spec for X4 is 6 years old, a decent midrange 6 year old computer now is, uhhh, I think cheaper than that nvme secondhand, ugh.
I have no real idea of what a "Computer" costs nowadays because I'm used to Upgrade churn, mobo/processor, sure, GPU, unfortunately, yeah. etc. although, if you get solid kit, you can always use it in the next build, kind of a vimes boots situation.

[mediacenter]

i have a suggestion
bring back unfocused jump drive
research trouhg squid, need resources every time like mass teleportation, possibility to fail and ended up in your uncle backyard

unlock
new indipendent and temporary sector full of "things" randomly generated
if you are lucky
usefull resources/paintjob/modparts, little to no fights
if you are not lucky (but that depends of who you are asking)
enemies to fight aka xenon, that you can fight even if they are extinct in your game, khaak/pirates/paranid that worship the holy beatyouality/goner without peaceful intent

you can bring with you....lets say 10 l ships or 5 l ships and X m ships ecc, to have a "reasonable" fighting force that have a maxlimit
if you do not reach the jump limit, you can jump out with some captured ship/loot

example
i bring all my fleet, reaching max mass, i cannot capture anything and i can take very few boxes/reward unless i leave there something in exchange
i bring only half of the fleet, more difficult scenario if enemies is present, but i can bring back ships/more resources
go alone and bring back all you can, alive

god i really need a way to fight xenon without kill my universe balance


i know, my english suck

[hakenden]

I think that X4 failed with the concept of highways.
The many protests after the release of X4 about the highways and the resulting omission in DLCs and the later addition of the option to omit the highways altogether are for me the anchor point here and proof that they never caught on in X.
The whole thing is made even more difficult by the lack of compatibility of L and XL ships with the highways as well as the strange approach to the gates of L and XL ships.
First flying behind the gate, then turning and then jumping through the gate is simply awkward and nonsensical.
The effects on the game mechanics in X4 are gigantic.
It ranges from additional strain on the Wayfinding's AI (which has to navigate around the gate), to weak Xenon (because they have to cross enemy sectors to exchange goods with other Xenon colonies).
The bigger X4 gets, the more useful the jump drive becomes, which the teleporter could never (in my opinion) replace.
I am aware that with XR and X4 they deliberately wanted to go new ways, to bring a new depth into the X universe through sector conquests (X4), but this concept has also failed as it is now.

What is the point of conquering a sector?
Ok, I can make drugs legal and I can generate free building sites for myself.
I can't decide which people the sector should belong to, I can't charge any fees, I can't sell building sites, ... so actually owning a sector is absolutely superfluous.

On the quality of live function of the jump drive.
I think that the jump drive can definitely be seen as a quality of live function.
For example, I'm exploring sector XY and my station is attacked by a K, so I fly to the station with my Kathana, possibly fight the K and then take care of the reconstruction.
To do this, I switch on the autopilot, fly back to the sector I just wanted to explore, open the map, manage the purchase of the required goods and hire a construction ship.
With a bit of bad luck, I get stuck in another ship/station on the way ... .
This is time that is wasted in X4 and that I could save in this way, just quality of life.

Computing power
By shortening the distances, the computer is no longer forced to calculate the entire route of a trade route from factory to factory, which would definitely save computing power and loading times.

Other, secondary aspects ...
Battles and defence would again be more at the gates and not at the factories where mass graves of hunters are now piling up, especially in Hatikvah's choice.
Police controls could not be bypassed so easily ... .

[X-Tie]

It would be amazing if they could introduce jump drives that are actively used by the AI as well, i.e.: for invasions and defence. It would create such dynamic engagements!

That being said, I have grown accustomed to the lack of a JD and how ship travel speed is now a very important stat to consider... So I think there are a lot of other things I would prefer they worked on before working on jump drives - if ever.

The highways are indeed a massive fail and I'm glad that was abandoned... Ugly and useless.

[jlehtone]

... the strange approach to the gates of L and XL ships.
First flying behind the gate, then turning and then jumping through the gate is simply awkward and nonsensical.

That behaviour was replaced many game versions ago and is no more.

Other, secondary aspects ...
Battles and defence would again be more at the gates and not at the factories where mass graves of hunters are now piling up, especially in Hatikvah's choice.
Police controls could not be bypassed so easily ... .

Yes, let traders jump to the center of the sector, like the Trade Mk3 Universal Traders did (when they were still a third-party script). No Gates were harmed ...

Most of the battle at my Hatikvah is at the Gate. Only some slip through, because they are fast and ignore the enemy at the gate. You could still do that if you would jump to the gate ...

[humility925]

It would be amazing if they could introduce jump drives that are actively used by the AI as well, i.e.: for invasions and defence. It would create such dynamic engagements!

That being said, I have grown accustomed to the lack of a JD and how ship travel speed is now a very important stat to consider... So I think there are a lot of other things I would prefer they worked on before working on jump drives - if ever.

The highways are indeed a massive fail and I'm glad that was abandoned... Ugly and useless.

Highway are still in the game, but I do prefer jump drive over highway any day yes, it's look odd in the space, I don't think that is how it work if time real life, jump drive is more real than way highway set up in space (where planet, star keep moving, and it's very, very long, almost eternity to build highway like that, so jump drive is more reasonable and logistics if in real life. Had a highway in space would be Apocalyptic, waste resource and time, never get it done, maybe someone who build highway immortal for fun, but even so, space is very unpredictable, I think it's always moving chaos whatever black hole or star moving and hit or melt highway, or Asteroids hit and damage highway, space is always moving and chaos, I think.

Now, I had no problem with travel mode, but only if allowed travel mode even under enemies's fire, if player laying non combat slow ship, than that might no issues for not had jump drive in the game. In fact when this game come out, we can use travel mode when enemies's under fire, I don't see as overpower, but I'm playing as peaceful slow ship trader/miner, what you had, but some other loud voice calm to said it's overpower, since it's because it's had to do with combat pilot or someone who want to pirate where I do not want to be pirate, that was no problem till they nerfed travel mode, then it's problem for peaceful trader/minder/slow ship, then peaceful player had problem, then people like this want jump drive or whatever to avoid combat, unwanted gameplay type design due because other player who forced on pirate/combat want that kind of gameplay that had no benefit, now it's not fun to play slow ship (if one was playing iron man, no reload game while roleplaying as peaceful slow ship in early of game, enemies easy come out of thin air and they often had fast ship, faster than peaceful ship, able to catch up. That is where big issues as some player had good experience in past in older game where they role playing as pilot slow ship. Some combat player mocking peaceful player telling "suck it up, no more jump drive or travel mode that allowed enemies's fire for you", so I think it's not fair for player who want roleplaying peaceful slow ship forced to see gameover or got killed if you got out of ship at early of game again and again, not able to use travel mode when enemies shooting at because other side of player who forced on combat/pirate gameplay type like to attack slow ship.

I guess some people might prefer jumpdrive over travel mode with allowed under enemies's gun, in this case, we don't had any of gameplay design optional for slow ship that get out of combat to avoid enemies, it's was at a time when this game come out, where we can able to use travel mode under enemies's gun, I don't see overpower but someone abused it and said it's overpower (that is not peaceful player slow ship, it's fast combat forced player ship) while other player don't abused at all (that is peaceful slow ship)

[Hector0x]

jump drive is more real than way highway set up in space

No it's not. Today's real world physics have plausible concepts of future space highways which are based on 2 stationary lasers to push some payload. Meanwhile we don't have any plausible concept for teleportation whatsoever.

This should only be about the gameplay anyway. If you open that 'hard sci fi' can of worms you only create paradoxons which destroy all gameplay.

For example no space warship would ever have a biological crew. Because only a higher g force tolerance allows you to evade. All space warfare would involve independent seeking drone swarms because you couldn't even predict where the enemy ship is. You're only detecting their past location from a few moments ago because you are literally fighting across an unimaginable distance of light seconds (millions of km), targeting a small heat signature

[hakenden]

I'm sorry to correct you but I just checked @jlehtone.
The ships still fly behind the gate and turn a small percentage to then jump.

And I also have to correct @Hector0x here.
It is physically impossible to use such a laser for riding ships. Firstly, you can't just stop light at a point (not even possible with a blackbody due to heat generation and decay of the body).
Light doesn't fly curves except in gravitational lenses and no ship wants to go through that because of gravity.
However, quantum entanglement has of course been proven and seems to be possible.
How big and how far it works is another matter.
Nevertheless, from a scientific point of view, this rather supports the jump drive that causes space to fall.