X3 online NOT DAME UPDATES
Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum
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CBJ
- EGOSOFT
- Posts: 54171
- Joined: Tue, 29. Apr 03, 00:56
The problem with a LAN game is that it generates a lot of extra development costs but very little in the way of extra income. You can't charge extra just because a game has LAN functionality, and you can't generate much, if anything, in the way of new income based on it's presence. Worse still, the number of people who will buy a space trading and fighting game is relatively limited, and the number of additional people who would buy one because it had LAN functionality (and wouldn't if it didn't) is even smaller. Unless there is a major revenue stream from LAN gaming that everyone has missed, or there are legions of frustrated LAN-playing space gamers out there that no-one has noticed, then adding LAN-based play would incur costs with no chance of them being recovered.
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Ebyl Vampyre
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Mon, 2. Apr 07, 19:47
I guess that's where we disagree. I think an X game could be broadened to appeal to a larger group of players by adding options and features that would take advantage of a LAN type aspect. But I do agree that a LAN version of an X game as it is now would not be appealing enough to recover the costs.
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Cycrow
- Moderator (Script&Mod)
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simply adding a lan options to game wouldn't get all those ppl who dont like space games to go out and buy it, simply coz its multiplayer.
u'll find that the majortly of ppl who like space games will prolly already buy the game, and even thou adding lan will appeal to some of them, they would have already bought the game, so it doesn't generate any extra income. You might get the odd few that are intrested because of the lan options, but it will be limited.
as your idea of jumpdrives, it does sound very unbalanced, and i think will make it more boring. The current jumpdrive ruins the game abit imho. As you dont have to bother traveling through hostile sectors, you simply jump straight past them.
also, if you can use in sector jump drives, so should the AI, so then you dont see pirates as they dont fly around anymore, just simply jump to thier target, kill them and jump out.
also, in the scripting and modding forum, someone did create a script that give the AI jumpdrives, and it totally screwed the ecnomemy.
a better alternative is to use a drive that increases the travel through sectors with various limitations, which is something i've actually been working on for awhile now, and its quite difficult to make it work properly without unbalancing the game
u'll find that the majortly of ppl who like space games will prolly already buy the game, and even thou adding lan will appeal to some of them, they would have already bought the game, so it doesn't generate any extra income. You might get the odd few that are intrested because of the lan options, but it will be limited.
as your idea of jumpdrives, it does sound very unbalanced, and i think will make it more boring. The current jumpdrive ruins the game abit imho. As you dont have to bother traveling through hostile sectors, you simply jump straight past them.
also, if you can use in sector jump drives, so should the AI, so then you dont see pirates as they dont fly around anymore, just simply jump to thier target, kill them and jump out.
also, in the scripting and modding forum, someone did create a script that give the AI jumpdrives, and it totally screwed the ecnomemy.
a better alternative is to use a drive that increases the travel through sectors with various limitations, which is something i've actually been working on for awhile now, and its quite difficult to make it work properly without unbalancing the game
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Meco
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Fri, 5. May 06, 03:07
I don't know...
I see a lack of vision.
As online space games go, EvE is good but lacks the Wing Commander / X Universe cockpit, first person feel. "Click ship and ship moves". The concept is massive in scale as most have mentioned here. " would be needed for X online to work "
Eve also had humble beginings. but the " Vision " inspired investors from varying sources. 100,000's of Dolars, Pounds, ISK. however you want to denominate it. And now they have a 125,000 registered monthly player base with an average 20,000 - 30,000 people online at any given time.
Thier income base is an estimated mind bogling 1.5 million a Month.. Thats income..
Another Space game that takes a little bit of X is Jumpgate. It has the first person cockpit, Far better physics, but the game is old, the economy dificult to work with, the universe small, and the player base dwindling untill their next evolution. Which is finaly underway.
Like the original author of this thread, I dream of an Eve with X Universe appeal. Sure it means making a new game completely for online playability. But the Vision of such a concept generates great potential.
But, being realistic, this community including myself love X-3 just the way it is. Fun, personal, modable, and each of us that play X-3 can say.. " it's my game being played my way " An online variant would not be the same at all. And like the other online games. Sooner or later bits and peices would be sold on Ebay, cheaters and exploiters would reign supreme, and the whole X-Feel would be lost completely.
Would it be a good idea? Sure. Would I buy and play an X-Online? Sure. Will it ever happen? Mabey not as we know it by these developers. But new games are being made all the time. and many are under development.
Love it or hate it. X is X, and X is not an online game.
I see a lack of vision.
As online space games go, EvE is good but lacks the Wing Commander / X Universe cockpit, first person feel. "Click ship and ship moves". The concept is massive in scale as most have mentioned here. " would be needed for X online to work "
Eve also had humble beginings. but the " Vision " inspired investors from varying sources. 100,000's of Dolars, Pounds, ISK. however you want to denominate it. And now they have a 125,000 registered monthly player base with an average 20,000 - 30,000 people online at any given time.
Thier income base is an estimated mind bogling 1.5 million a Month.. Thats income..
Another Space game that takes a little bit of X is Jumpgate. It has the first person cockpit, Far better physics, but the game is old, the economy dificult to work with, the universe small, and the player base dwindling untill their next evolution. Which is finaly underway.
Like the original author of this thread, I dream of an Eve with X Universe appeal. Sure it means making a new game completely for online playability. But the Vision of such a concept generates great potential.
But, being realistic, this community including myself love X-3 just the way it is. Fun, personal, modable, and each of us that play X-3 can say.. " it's my game being played my way " An online variant would not be the same at all. And like the other online games. Sooner or later bits and peices would be sold on Ebay, cheaters and exploiters would reign supreme, and the whole X-Feel would be lost completely.
Would it be a good idea? Sure. Would I buy and play an X-Online? Sure. Will it ever happen? Mabey not as we know it by these developers. But new games are being made all the time. and many are under development.
Love it or hate it. X is X, and X is not an online game.
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NewtSoup
- Posts: 1419
- Joined: Wed, 16. Nov 05, 13:33
I'd borrow the Jumpdrive's weakness straight from the daddy of all space games and that would be "mass locked". Anything comming within a certain distance of the ship "collapses" the jump field, returning you to a normal speed. I'm thinking the jump drive just speeds you up to starbust kind of speed. (Call it the Starburst Overtune Drive)
(this leads to fun things like pirate ships sitting cloaked or setting up squash mines on trade routes to knock ships out of jump).
If it were a true online multiplayer I would get rid of Universe traders completely and most of the AI traders and stations. The online universe would be persistent even when the player logs out so stations would remain. Players themselves would take the place of the traders and would have to do so in order to make money. Thus most sectors at the begining of the game would be devoid of any life. Only the core sectors would have any stations. (You could blame it on a massive xenon/khaak war). They would have JUST enough for players to start building and expanding into the empty sectors. Stations have 1000GJ shields with an obscene regen rate. they cannot be destroyed. Indestructable stations would HAVE to be in a persistant universe because it's NOT real life and people cant play all the time. Making stations appear and disappear with online status of their owner is a bit silly and very intensive on the server.
Size of universe - that would limit the number of players. but it wouldnt have to. I'd have gates around the edge of the "standard" map leading off to new sectors. These sectors would be generated on by pseudo random number sequences (so that EVERYONE generates the same sequence from a given seed). That way no pre-defined map need be made and the universe can theoretically be expanded forever by increasing the max allowable path length between any two points in the universe. The only time new data need be stored is when a player builds something in a new sector. Then just the station data need be stored as the sector will alwyas be generated the same.
OMG that n00b just built a million crystal fabs and quit the game. An inconvenience for sure, but not game breaking. Stations are indestructable but they require maintenance money to remain so. Without pay station personel leave for brighter futures elsewhere and the station falls into disrepair eventually exploding due to reactor breach.
I may blather on more later - I have loads of ideas on how an XOLU could work but right now I have to take my son to school.
(this leads to fun things like pirate ships sitting cloaked or setting up squash mines on trade routes to knock ships out of jump).
If it were a true online multiplayer I would get rid of Universe traders completely and most of the AI traders and stations. The online universe would be persistent even when the player logs out so stations would remain. Players themselves would take the place of the traders and would have to do so in order to make money. Thus most sectors at the begining of the game would be devoid of any life. Only the core sectors would have any stations. (You could blame it on a massive xenon/khaak war). They would have JUST enough for players to start building and expanding into the empty sectors. Stations have 1000GJ shields with an obscene regen rate. they cannot be destroyed. Indestructable stations would HAVE to be in a persistant universe because it's NOT real life and people cant play all the time. Making stations appear and disappear with online status of their owner is a bit silly and very intensive on the server.
Size of universe - that would limit the number of players. but it wouldnt have to. I'd have gates around the edge of the "standard" map leading off to new sectors. These sectors would be generated on by pseudo random number sequences (so that EVERYONE generates the same sequence from a given seed). That way no pre-defined map need be made and the universe can theoretically be expanded forever by increasing the max allowable path length between any two points in the universe. The only time new data need be stored is when a player builds something in a new sector. Then just the station data need be stored as the sector will alwyas be generated the same.
OMG that n00b just built a million crystal fabs and quit the game. An inconvenience for sure, but not game breaking. Stations are indestructable but they require maintenance money to remain so. Without pay station personel leave for brighter futures elsewhere and the station falls into disrepair eventually exploding due to reactor breach.
I may blather on more later - I have loads of ideas on how an XOLU could work but right now I have to take my son to school.
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drunk weasel
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Tue, 1. Feb 05, 16:16
I think personally that if online were ever to happen then the player would be limited to one ship and perhaps one factory. You'd need to have each sector operating as its own seperate entity with a limit to its size and how many factories were in each one just to keep the game manageable. No having factories in multiple sectors and remotely controlling them from OOS.
Although these are all nice ideas that if they were possible would be awesome at this moment in time they simply are'nt, the money needed to research and develop anything more than just another MMORPG the same as countless others already out there would be huge.
Although these are all nice ideas that if they were possible would be awesome at this moment in time they simply are'nt, the money needed to research and develop anything more than just another MMORPG the same as countless others already out there would be huge.
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CBJ
- EGOSOFT
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infohata
- Posts: 127
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imagine that all let's say 10 players do Bala-Gi for HQ at the same time... it'd be some kind'a race?! M7 yaht there's only 1Clantron wrote:SpoilerShowAnd without SETA: Imagine being in Grand Exchange and not explored south of that. Then go search for the M7 Hyperion without SETA
Pick the Best, kick the rest...
Travel more!
CodeMaster
Travel more!
CodeMaster
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Captain Ratboy
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon, 30. Apr 07, 21:59
I bought X3 a week ago, but enjoy trawling these forums, and in my humble opinion, this game simply rocks as a single player experience. It's one of the most immersive experiences i've come across, and gives a real sense of achievment, when you buy that new upgrade, or get a new ship.
Last year i managed to successfully rescue myself from the clutches of Warcraft, and made a solemn vow to never again touch a MMORPG. The problem with them is that they get so stupidly competitive. "Yeah? you think thats cool? then check out my dagger of infinite bleeding and pain +13! I'm 1337! N00B OMFG BUTTSECKS."
I dont think anybody has talked on the fact that if EGO made x into a multiplayer game, it would totally screw up the in game global economy.
Example -
You have your regular player (ie me) who plays whenever they get the chance, progress is slow, building up your trading empire takes time Etc.
You then have your hardcore, 6 hours a day, every day, player who is running trade runs, setting up complexes everywhere, buying ST/UT's every waking moment and is completley bent on world universal domination Etc.
Withing a week, the regular player cannot even dream of competing with the hardore, and would just get owned. The hardcore player has flooded the markets with self sustaining complexes, and is driving prices down to rock bottom. imagine the hardcore player gets a six month headstart, and then a regular player joins his server. It would take so long for him to get anywhere it would be pointless. It works in Warcraft, because you can't build an empire. Everything is limited to the abilities of your 1 character.
Imagine if X worked that way. You couldnt build complexes, but were limited to server based trading points.
Lets face it, the main appeal of X as opposed to other space sims (as i understand it so far, only had it a week remember)
is to slowly but surely build your empire up the dominant force in the Universe, be it through trading or blowing the crap out of everything. Multiplayer would drive that goal to near impossible levels.
Leave the formula as it is, because it is, in a word, awesome.
The only thing that does get on my nerves with X as it is, is the inability to use any console controls like navigation, complex details Etc. without it turning the SETA drive off. Why oh Why cant i use access the map with SETA engaged?!
Last year i managed to successfully rescue myself from the clutches of Warcraft, and made a solemn vow to never again touch a MMORPG. The problem with them is that they get so stupidly competitive. "Yeah? you think thats cool? then check out my dagger of infinite bleeding and pain +13! I'm 1337! N00B OMFG BUTTSECKS."
I dont think anybody has talked on the fact that if EGO made x into a multiplayer game, it would totally screw up the in game global economy.
Example -
You have your regular player (ie me) who plays whenever they get the chance, progress is slow, building up your trading empire takes time Etc.
You then have your hardcore, 6 hours a day, every day, player who is running trade runs, setting up complexes everywhere, buying ST/UT's every waking moment and is completley bent on world universal domination Etc.
Withing a week, the regular player cannot even dream of competing with the hardore, and would just get owned. The hardcore player has flooded the markets with self sustaining complexes, and is driving prices down to rock bottom. imagine the hardcore player gets a six month headstart, and then a regular player joins his server. It would take so long for him to get anywhere it would be pointless. It works in Warcraft, because you can't build an empire. Everything is limited to the abilities of your 1 character.
Imagine if X worked that way. You couldnt build complexes, but were limited to server based trading points.
Lets face it, the main appeal of X as opposed to other space sims (as i understand it so far, only had it a week remember)
is to slowly but surely build your empire up the dominant force in the Universe, be it through trading or blowing the crap out of everything. Multiplayer would drive that goal to near impossible levels.Leave the formula as it is, because it is, in a word, awesome.
The only thing that does get on my nerves with X as it is, is the inability to use any console controls like navigation, complex details Etc. without it turning the SETA drive off. Why oh Why cant i use access the map with SETA engaged?!
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esd
- Posts: 17998
- Joined: Tue, 2. Sep 03, 05:57
I agree with a lot of your post, but I thought I'd help you on this oneCaptain Ratboy wrote:The only thing that does get on my nerves with X as it is, is the inability to use any console controls like navigation, complex details Etc. without it turning the SETA drive off. Why oh Why cant i use access the map with SETA engaged?!
The SETA field only encompasses the inside of the cabin, so any interaction with systems outside the cabin (including the controls) disengages it. You can always bring up the map then hit SETA though
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ThommoHawk
- Posts: 1895
- Joined: Mon, 30. Oct 06, 09:27
infohata wrote:imagine that all let's say 10 players do Bala-Gi for HQ at the same time... it'd be some kind'a race?! M7 yaht there's only 1
yesss.....? I am imagining it....and can see 9 very unhappy players saying things like "That was a stupid idea, this game sucks..." Like what is the point of doing that when in your own game you can get it for yourself, without the stress of having someone else beat you to it? The B.G. quest sounds like it is enough of a challenge already, without having to go into some insane time-limited competition with a bunch of good people.competition is good. co-operation is better.
Edit: I am with Captain Ratboy on this one..... In fact, despite reading all the negatives at this forum (not this thread) on A.I. navigtion, God-Engine performance, etc. this is one of the things that amazes me about X3... It really is the combination of game script and code utilizing my PC, turning it into and awesomly grand, interactive, intelligent 'being' almost....uncanny sometimes, the way things happen in it.
Last edited by ThommoHawk on Thu, 3. May 07, 15:17, edited 2 times in total.
[XTrilogy]: Holy Argnu cows! I have found it! An asteroid of pure ore - 100% - I am rich! Now, I just need to find one like that made from silicon. hmmm, where do I want to go today?
X REBIRTH? "JUST A TOURIST until X4 IS RELEASED! Because That SUPERNOVA sure went FUBAR" (Quoting T.Hawk. Read all about it at: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=353678)
X REBIRTH? "JUST A TOURIST until X4 IS RELEASED! Because That SUPERNOVA sure went FUBAR" (Quoting T.Hawk. Read all about it at: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=353678)
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novacatt
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Sat, 23. Dec 06, 07:31
Hiya Peeps,Captain Ratboy wrote:You then have your hardcore, 6 hours a day, every day player
Only 6hr A Day, Ever Day, Player He Sez..............
Some Of Us Practically Live On :X3:.......... Take Me For Example....... Usually Start About 7-8Pm & Sometimes Don't Get Off* The Game/PC 'Til Dawn Or Even Lunchtime The Next Day......... [Does The Expression "Numbus Bumus" Ring Any Bells, Anyone?]
Cheers & Thranx
* = Except For Answering Calls Of Nature & The Like........
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d0mbo
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Cycrow
- Moderator (Script&Mod)
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or even worse, u get some guy that just camps at the m7 killing anyone trying to get hold itThommoHawk wrote:infohata wrote:imagine that all let's say 10 players do Bala-Gi for HQ at the same time... it'd be some kind'a race?! M7 yaht there's only 1
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NewtSoup
- Posts: 1419
- Joined: Wed, 16. Nov 05, 13:33
To stop people spawn camping the bala gi yacht and wrecking it for others you'd have to modify the quest so that the last clue you follow gives you the jump coords for a previously unknown sector.
This sector would then be "instanced" so that only the player doing the mission would be there.
But that brings in another bugbear. PVP do you allow it or not? Some people just want to trade and make things. Others ONLY want to "pwn" (I really really hate that word) everyone they can get in their reticule. Many people will say that it's the sole reason for having an online universe.
You could prevent friendly fire by saying that weapons energy frequencies are tuned to shield frequency so that they have no effect. But that's not going to please the die hard PVPers who would squeal about realism and how it should all be freeform.
So, just as a workaround for the current scenario and given only the most brief thought. The instanced sector is a trap. It has a gate but it's broken. Which is why the yacht went missing. It's pilot couldnt work out how to get back and they all starved / went crazy / spontaneously combusted etc. The player has to get the gate in that sector online (complete another subquest in standard space to get parts etc (goners?) ) and link it temporarily to another gate of their choice. They can then tow the ship through to wherever they want. A virus on the yacht deletes the sectors location from the nav computers and the quest giver that gave the coords has been assasinated, sector closed, that part of the quest done.
all rather moot though unless someone wins a large win on the euromillions and wants to front the cash for a further 2 years (at least I'd guess) of game development.
This sector would then be "instanced" so that only the player doing the mission would be there.
But that brings in another bugbear. PVP do you allow it or not? Some people just want to trade and make things. Others ONLY want to "pwn" (I really really hate that word) everyone they can get in their reticule. Many people will say that it's the sole reason for having an online universe.
You could prevent friendly fire by saying that weapons energy frequencies are tuned to shield frequency so that they have no effect. But that's not going to please the die hard PVPers who would squeal about realism and how it should all be freeform.
So, just as a workaround for the current scenario and given only the most brief thought. The instanced sector is a trap. It has a gate but it's broken. Which is why the yacht went missing. It's pilot couldnt work out how to get back and they all starved / went crazy / spontaneously combusted etc. The player has to get the gate in that sector online (complete another subquest in standard space to get parts etc (goners?) ) and link it temporarily to another gate of their choice. They can then tow the ship through to wherever they want. A virus on the yacht deletes the sectors location from the nav computers and the quest giver that gave the coords has been assasinated, sector closed, that part of the quest done.
all rather moot though unless someone wins a large win on the euromillions and wants to front the cash for a further 2 years (at least I'd guess) of game development.
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Claywalker2000
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu, 3. May 07, 17:55
I just started playing X3 and I love it, but I do wish it did have LAN capabilities because my brother and I would love to play this together. We use to play Freelancer on lan but X3 is sooo much better. You could leave X3 exactly like it is with lan, it would just be like single player with saving and loading, if your friend isn't there and you wanna play then you can load it up and your friends stuff and ship is still in the world but his ship would stay docked at a station and he could join in at any time.
Or you can only load up a saved file if the exact same people are there, so that way if they have stations they can keep a eye on them and with you not being able to play without him he doesn't have to worry about you playing a whole bunch, getting ahead of him or his stuff getting destroyed.
The only thing I don't know how to get around for lan is SETA. Maybe take it out and speed ships up or since your playing lan with a few people it gives you a message that someone wants to activate seta and for you to activate yours, and if your in a position you can't then you press a no key.
Or you can only load up a saved file if the exact same people are there, so that way if they have stations they can keep a eye on them and with you not being able to play without him he doesn't have to worry about you playing a whole bunch, getting ahead of him or his stuff getting destroyed.
The only thing I don't know how to get around for lan is SETA. Maybe take it out and speed ships up or since your playing lan with a few people it gives you a message that someone wants to activate seta and for you to activate yours, and if your in a position you can't then you press a no key.
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rizzo420
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Tonedude
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