[Suggestion/QoL] Docking guidance indicator (similar to mission one)

[Raptor34]

Try playing some of the timelines missions for a bit, you'll see just how much of a PITA it is trying to find the damned thing.

Which ones specifically?

The trading ones. Where you need to move around various stations without having your generally more customized ships and a pilot.
The mining one isn't that nice either, but at least it's the same station each time.

[vvvvvvvv]

The trading ones. Where you need to move around various stations without having your generally more customized ships and a pilot.
The mining one isn't that nice either, but at least it's the same station each time.

I'll check it later. I think the first thing I did in those mission was hiring a random janitor which I promptly placed into pilot seat, though. Then I stayed at the station to admire aquarium.

[Raptor34]

The trading ones. Where you need to move around various stations without having your generally more customized ships and a pilot.
The mining one isn't that nice either, but at least it's the same station each time.

I'll check it later. I think the first thing I did in those mission was hiring a random janitor which I promptly placed into pilot seat, though. Then I stayed at the station to admire aquarium.

Oh right. You could do that too. Shit.
Too bad you can't do that on the Paranid combat/trading hybrid mission in the last section. Because good luck getting an NPC pilot to dodge fire while trying to trade.
If that happens more in the base game you'll have players clamoring for easier docking than trying to play Where's Waldo while under constant heavy fire. ****, that's the only mission I got 0 stars in.

Edit: Incidentally talking about aviation lights is very misleading. Because you know what we have in real airports that we don't have in X4? Large clear approach lines to where you are supposed to dock. And yet I remember a thread asking to be able to ignore even more of the "docking area" thing when building stations... If I had my way I'll make sure every NPC station starts building to standard, i.e. your docking spots should always be up top with no obstructions. Dunno why only the Terran and I think Boron are the only factions to follow proper standards with their docking modules having connection ports from below.

[vvvvvvvv]

Edit: Incidentally talking about aviation lights is very misleading. Because you know what we have in real airports that we don't have in X4? Large clear approach lines to where you are supposed to dock. And yet I remember a thread asking to be able to ignore even more of the "docking area" thing when building stations... If I had my way I'll make sure every NPC station starts building to standard, i.e. your docking spots should always be up top with no obstructions. Dunno why only the Terran and I think Boron are the only factions to follow proper standards with their docking modules having connection ports from below.

In XPlane VR the landing strip can be very hard to see visually. So you fly by the instruments, and follow the course until it aligns and you do this from many kilometers away. At the time the strip is well visible you risk overshooting it if you miss the beginning. I believe real life is the same, though I'm not an airplane pilot. So, while there are visual markings, as you can see here, in london approach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrrjQVAhCyo

By the time they come into view, you're already in high tension situation. The landing path mimics night time lighting, I believe.

Terran and Boron stations which hold ships inside are... actually very unsafe, plus AI used to have pathfinding problems with them. They're unsafe, because one mishap with a pilot boosting into wall will result likely in huge problems. I'd expect them to depressurize, but don't know if the magical forcefield would hold air. A more sane design would likely be 3MS6 docks with open area, except in reality there would be no force field for air, everybody would be in spacesuits and magnetic boots, and, obviosuly, all obstructions would be removed, that means the overhangs present in 1MS6 and 10M docks. Piers are also sensible, though those would likely extend docking tubes instead of using cargo drones. And in Terran stations the reasonable idea would be to land outside of the module, so in case of problems the station can just eject the whole ship into vacuum.

But that diverges quite far from original topic.

[azaghal]

Edit: ... Dunno why only the Terran and I think Boron are the only factions to follow proper standards with their docking modules having connection ports from below.

Because they are the two most stuck-up factions in the game?

[Raptor34]

Edit: Incidentally talking about aviation lights is very misleading. Because you know what we have in real airports that we don't have in X4? Large clear approach lines to where you are supposed to dock. And yet I remember a thread asking to be able to ignore even more of the "docking area" thing when building stations... If I had my way I'll make sure every NPC station starts building to standard, i.e. your docking spots should always be up top with no obstructions. Dunno why only the Terran and I think Boron are the only factions to follow proper standards with their docking modules having connection ports from below.

In XPlane VR the landing strip can be very hard to see visually. So you fly by the instruments, and follow the course until it aligns and you do this from many kilometers away. At the time the strip is well visible you risk overshooting it if you miss the beginning. I believe real life is the same, though I'm not an airplane pilot. So, while there are visual markings, as you can see here, in london approach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrrjQVAhCyo

By the time they come into view, you're already in high tension situation. The landing path mimics night time lighting, I believe.

Terran and Boron stations which hold ships inside are... actually very unsafe, plus AI used to have pathfinding problems with them. They're unsafe, because one mishap with a pilot boosting into wall will result likely in huge problems. I'd expect them to depressurize, but don't know if the magical forcefield would hold air. A more sane design would likely be 3MS6 docks with open area, except in reality there would be no force field for air, everybody would be in spacesuits and magnetic boots, and, obviosuly, all obstructions would be removed, that means the overhangs present in 1MS6 and 10M docks. Piers are also sensible, though those would likely extend docking tubes instead of using cargo drones. And in Terran stations the reasonable idea would be to land outside of the module, so in case of problems the station can just eject the whole ship into vacuum.

But that diverges quite far from original topic.

Yes and? The point is the current instruments doesn't really tell us much. Like imagine if IRL airliners have to basically guess where the landing strip is.
And funny you say TER and BOR one's are unsafe, because that's exactly how factions build their stations as well. If they build them like the 3M6S then the modules would be right at the top with no obstructions and this thread would be pointless.

[azaghal]

Once again, in order to locate the docking module, you have had to zoom-in twice in a row to full magnification, had the station against an orange backdrop, and you did have a line of sight against the dock - no other modules blocking it off completely from you view. The initial ship orientation and module position helped as well - slightly above the station, docking pad pointing in "upwards" direction.

* I do not see the problem with zoom and would argue backdrop makes no difference.

The point is that you had to prepare for this type of approach way way ahead of time and spend a couple of seconds trying to locate the blue glow indicator.

Backdrop does make a difference. It is not the same if you show blue against an orange backdrop, blue against black backdrop, or blue against blue backdrop. Contrast.

* As I mentioned before this is the scenario where the module is not immediately visible, but it becomes noticeable due to massive glow. GLow becomes visible at 6-10 kilometers. In my experience, glow is visible with all backgrounds.
* If you can think of any sector where it is a problem, let's hear it.

There are plenty of sectors with dark or bluish background or various fog/dust effects. Blue glow will not have as much contrast as in sectors which have an orange tint to them. The glow will not be visible if you have your back turned towards it. The glow will not be visible if you are approaching from the bottom of the station/module (this was actually a bit of surprise to me as I was messing around, but I guess that's just the way the light sources is positioned). The glow will not be visible if there are other structures obstructing it.

At larger distances guiding marker hinders navigation, because the yellow reticle tends to obscure things it points at. This is a common problem when trying to aim at accelerator gate, because it hides the whole thing and that makes it harder to align with the game. Hence I do not use it. At 100 km the station will be, I think, a dot. So the marker will obscure it. With S docks situation is similar, because the whole landing pad is covere by the yellow mess, and I'm not seeing what I'm supposed to point at. In case of NPC pilot the game does not even let you pick a docking port, so the marker becomes irrelevant, as it doesn't matter where you land.

This has never caused me issues when navigating - or at the very least the benefits of having a clear guidance marker has almost always outweighed the negatives (so that I don't perceive it as major problem). Then again, I also do not ram my ship into docking area at full travel speed.

It gives you a visual indication where the module is located, like any other guidance marker in the game.

* I did not ever feel a need to have the guiding marker point at a dock.

Every time I have picked up a mission where I am expected to land somewhere, I have found the guiding marker to be remarkably useful. And this was particularly the case when I played modded 6.20 - since there is a mod that keeps the (manual, non-mission) guidance marker even when you get close to target destination.

* I have an issue, as I said, where guiding marker obscures things it points at. That's the reason why I use zoom, though it took me a while to recall how/why I ended up not using it. Green hologram, by the way, is seen thorugh objects but does not block them.

I am aware of the green hologram, but I honestly find it useless except for the final approach as I am actually landing - the green guidance lights are normally way more visible.

* The green path's main value is that it directs to the to the piers when you pilot capitals. Capitals are slow, and hologram helps with ships which have unusual docking port position (mainly H)
* In S ships it is mainly useful because it avoid obstacles. This would be useful early on with slow ships. I.e. the path is more useful than final location.
* Main argunet that can be made against green path is that dots fully disappear when they fade out. I.e. it does not retain visible. But this is likely a nod to earlier games and does not cause a big problem. I'm not sure I'd want a green line permanently visible.

To reiterate - I do not think that the green guidance lights should be removed. As you mentioned, they are harder to observe because they blink in and out, and they can also be hard to spot if you need to completely turn around towards the dock. Making them permanently visible might even be an improvement in such cases.

* You absolutely will ram into walls, when target is obscured. That ship in the video flies at 20 kilometers per second. The maximum achievable in the game is 25 km/s. At this case entire station passes by in a blink, Maximum station side is 25 km cube, so you'll have a split second to notice something wrong. Which is one more reason for zoom, because you plan movement long before you get there.

The fastest ships I have flown is Moreya modded to fly about 12km/s. Then again - I do not ram my ship onto the docking pad (normally). I usually cut off the speed on time so I can cruise in at normal speed during the final approach. I can understand why you would have issues ramming the dock at 25km/s, though.

Note that while there are may be those who share your preference, there are plenty of people who would not want your proposal implemented. As indicated by the poll.

And so be it - that is the whole purpose of the poll. Despite this - keep in mind that 1/3 of the people who cast the vote would like to see _some_ kind of change. (with caveat on how small the sample is, although I am personally shocked there's been even _this_ many cast votes ). Try to look at this topic from other people's perspective.

So it would make sense to consider how to implement things you want, while not affecting people who would dislike it. It is not my decision how you play a game on your PC, but I would not want this change in my install. I'd assume other "naysayers" reason in similar fashion.

I do not speak for others. I take notes of things I find annoying during my gameplay, and then proceed to figure out some kind of solution to it. Up to this point, I have had ideas that I have completely dropped, merged with others, and even reworked a couple of times when I realised that they can be expanded into a more generic solution. At the end of the day, you could try making every single feature optional, and that will never work-out from the development perspective. Thus, some ideas might live, some might die. And I stand by with the statement I originally made when I used the term "naysayers" - guidance marker will stand out more than the current indicators. I am, however, _not_ going to claim that you like it nor you want it - just in case this is unclear - and that is _fine_.

To close this one off (and I think I'll let this topic be after that) - taking other people's opinions cuts both ways. Try to understand the issues from other people's perspective as well, and what kind of problems they might have with the game mechanics and interface. _Especially_ from casual and new player's perspective.

Over and out, and happy hacking to you all

[vvvvvvvv]

The point is that you had to prepare for this type of approach way way ahead of time and spend a couple of seconds trying to locate the blue glow indicator.

I will have to spend couple of seconds either way to plan approach. If I wanted to do it faster, I'd just teleport.

I spent some testing, it goes like this:

* Blue glow is visible from 75 kilometers away, and quite obviously acts as a homing beacon.
* It GROWS in brightness with distance until it disappears and is visible even on boron docks.
* It is visible on blue background, for example, in Argon Prime and Getsu Fune which are both blue.
* So as a result you're pretty much guaranteed to see the dock instantly on approach.
* THe only situation where you lose direction to it is when you're fumbling right next to a station after fight, scanning, etc.
* But in this case, Shift+D light trail points towards the dock.
* And your hologram acts as marker to the dock.
* The hologram is visible through the walls, and does not obscure vision, like yellow marker does.

So? What is there to do? The only thing that could be done here would be making green lights go faster or briefly flicker into existence as a line and even that is debatable.

> This has never caused me issues when navigating

It certainly did cause to me, because when mission marker is visible, at the the dock comes to view it obscures half of it. I would honestly prefer if it pointed at the center of the station instead. Because for most missions it points at random dock and you can land anywhere you want.