[Suggestion/QoL] Docking guidance indicator (similar to mission one)

[azaghal]

When player initiates docking, the game tries to make it easier to navigate towards the landing pad or pier by showing green indicator lights that point towards the docking target.

This is useful, but it is not as useful as having an actual target/guidance indicator on the HUD (such as mission guidance indicator).

It would be nice if a docking guidance indicator were shown when player requests docking. The indicator would be identical in behaviour to the mission guidance indicator, except it would be shown in green colour.

P.S.
So far I have found using guidance on station to be way more helpful in getting me to most landing pads than the green indicator lights - easier to locate and follow - with sole exception being some of the more complex docks like Terran and Boron ones where indicator lights are helpful to understand where the entrance is.

[Raptor34]

I honestly never understood why it's such a chore trying to find where to dock. Frankly in the main game it's not really relevant because that's what gophers are for. In Timelines otoh...

[azaghal]

I honestly never understood why it's such a chore trying to find where to dock. Frankly in the main game it's not really relevant because that's what gophers are for. In Timelines otoh...

As in you don't think it's a chore or...? Gophers?

For me, personally, I usually have issues figuring out where the heck the docking module is on a station during the initial approach. The modules are usually fairly small, and kinda blend-in. The search lights that are shown on commonwealth ones also do not stick out as much against most faction stations - which is another factor in locating the docking module. When I played a lot in the Split space, I found it way easier to locate the docks - since they stick out quite a bit against the Split faction modules.

Then comes the actual docking part - if I request docking from far away enough, sometimes I manage to make out the green indicators, sometimes not. If I initiate docking when up close and personal with the station (say, after tumbling around while scanning the station), it's a real challenge. The green indicators are easy to miss, and they usually need to guide you through some awkward spaces. I usually end-up flying away from the station before attempting to approach again.

So far, what I really liked the most are the mission guidance indicators (yellow ones). Up to a point where I will usually set guidance to station during the approach so I can more easily discern the landing pad. The problem with this is that the game will drop the guidance if you are close enough (another pet peeve I have), and it also resets any mission guidance you may still be interested in.

Figured - if the yellow marker works fine, why not employ something similar to it during docking. You get clear indicator at the edge of the screen if the landing pad is outside of viewport, and you will see it way more easily on your HUD once you _do_ get it into view.

[Raptor34]

Those sla- I mean people you buy and you boss them around.
I don't fly around myself anymore.

[vvvvvvvv]

I honestly never understood why it's such a chore trying to find where to dock. Frankly

...

Did you know you can just ram your ship into any dock without requesting docking first, and as long as you have docking computer installed, it'll dock immediately? Docks also have very pronounced blue glow aura around them.

[Raptor34]

I honestly never understood why it's such a chore trying to find where to dock. Frankly

...

Did you know you can just ram your ship into any dock without requesting docking first, and as long as you have docking computer installed, it'll dock immediately? Docks also have very pronounced blue glow aura around them.

Irrelevant. My issue is finding where the dock MODULE is in the first place.
Wharves are easy. Random stations otoh.

[azaghal]

Those sla- I mean people you buy and you boss them around.
I don't fly around myself anymore.

Ah - I thought it was some kind of domain-specific term used in aviation for navigation lights

Funny enough... Even late game I prefer flying the ships myself - I find that to be the most enjoyable part of the game. I usually lose interest during mid-late/late game (empire management) due to annoyance with interface etc.

My personal ship is usually a frigate even in the late game (except when you want to fight it out with a station/destroyer) where I have a light and heavy fighter available. So... Probably one reason why I get more annoyed by this.

I honestly never understood why it's such a chore trying to find where to dock. Frankly

...

Did you know you can just ram your ship into any dock without requesting docking first, and as long as you have docking computer installed, it'll dock immediately? Docks also have very pronounced blue glow aura around them.

The suggestion is not about the docking operation itself - the suggestion is about navigating to said dock in the first place. As for the "very pronounced blue glow aura" - the whole game is about "very pronounced blue glow aura" - which does not help the docks stand out (and is also a reason why the devs have made guidance markers yellow - because they actually stand out compared to everything else visually). There's also a question of whether the dock is visually blocked by another module, whether it is viewed against some (bluish) backdrop etc.

For comparisons/demo purposes - fly out 5-6km away from a station. Observe the dock location. Then hit Shift + G and observe the dock location again. Do the same when 2-3km away from the station and facing away from the dock - this time comparing the green guiding lights against the guidance marker that pops up at the edge of the HUD.

[alt3rn1ty]

I'm a "no" on this one, I really like the green landing lights which dont just point towards the actual dock, but they also path towards it. So i'm a like it very much the way it is.

I like to take my time landing, a bit like when parking the car and you dont want the expense for another wing mirror replacement or body paint work redone

[Raptor34]

I'm a "no" on this one, I really like the green landing lights which dont just point towards the actual dock, but they also path towards it. So i'm a like it very much the way it is.

I like to take my time landing, a bit like when parking the car and you dont want the expense for another wing mirror replacement or body paint work redone

They need to be more obvious though.

[GCU Grey Area]

I'm a "no" on this one, I really like the green landing lights which dont just point towards the actual dock, but they also path towards it. So i'm a like it very much the way it is.

I like to take my time landing, a bit like when parking the car and you dont want the expense for another wing mirror replacement or body paint work redone

Same here. Green landing lights have been a feature of X games for as long as I've been playing them. I like them exactly as they are.

[azaghal]

For comparisons/demo purposes - fly out 5-6km away from a station. Observe the dock location. Then hit Shift + G and observe the dock location again. Do the same when 2-3km away from the station and facing away from the dock - this time comparing the green guiding lights against the guidance marker that pops up at the edge of the HUD.

To all the various nay-sayers - try out the quoted example, and then tell me that's not more helpful for the player to locate the docking module/pad.

As for the green indicator lights, just to emphasize - no need to remove them, and they do serve a different purpose nonetheless - they actually show you the path (which is useful for closed-off docks).

[stooper88]

For comparisons/demo purposes - fly out 5-6km away from a station. Observe the dock location. Then hit Shift + G and observe the dock location again. Do the same when 2-3km away from the station and facing away from the dock - this time comparing the green guiding lights against the guidance marker that pops up at the edge of the HUD.

To all the various nay-sayers - try out the quoted example, and then tell me that's not more helpful for the player to locate the docking module/pad.

As for the green indicator lights, just to emphasize - no need to remove them, and they do serve a different purpose nonetheless - they actually show you the path (which is useful for closed-off docks).

I fully agree. And I don't quite understand why having directional guidance arrows in addition to the existing green pathways would be a bad thing. The current system can be woefully inadequate and confusing, particularly when the chosen entrance or runway is being projected on the opposite side of the station.

Additionally, as much as I appreciated and approved of the system in X3, stations then were much more predictable and the landing lights significantly more conspicuous.

I think what's being proposed here (and demonstrated by the example given) is an elegant marriage of two arguably useful systems.

Also, although I realize you can always ram into docking pads with Mk2 docking computers or can spend more time enjoying the merits of parking leisurely, there are times when neither luxury is available (e.g. mining missions in Timelines).

[vvvvvvvv]

To all the various nay-sayers - try out the quoted example, and then

Well. This is docking process for an S ship for a randomly chosen station.

https://youtu.be/BJvg2uSrhRI

As you can see I detect it visually, by glow, and don't need anything. This also accidentally happened to be the situation you described where dock is obscured.

Basically... the green path is a nod towards aviation landing lights, and is a tradition, as others mentioned. You also mentioned that you can already press Shift+G and enable guidance. In this case what is the request? The only improvement that could be maybe done is *perhaps* making lights not fully disappear when they display path, but even that is not strictly necessary, because you do not need the path that much.

[azaghal]

To all the various nay-sayers - try out the quoted example, and then

Well. This is docking process for an S ship for a randomly chosen station.

https://youtu.be/BJvg2uSrhRI

As you can see I detect it visually, by glow, and don't need anything. This also accidentally happened to be the situation you described where dock is obscured.

Just plain bollocks. You had to zoom-in twice in a row to full magnification, had the station against an orange backdrop, and you did have a line of sight against the dock - no other modules blocking it off completely from you view. The initial ship orientation and module position helped as well - slightly above the station, docking pad pointing in "upwards" direction.

Once again - do the same video with guidance activated and then come back to tell me how it's not better for the player.

Basically... the green path is a nod towards aviation landing lights, and is a tradition, as others mentioned. You also mentioned that you can already press Shift+G and enable guidance.

This (from one of the posts above you did not bother to read):

The problem with this is that the game will drop the guidance if you are close enough (another pet peeve I have), and it also resets any mission guidance you may still be interested in.

In this case what is the request? The only improvement that could be maybe done is *perhaps* making lights not fully disappear when they display path, but even that is not strictly necessary, because you do not need the path that much.

This:

It would be nice if a docking guidance indicator were shown when player requests docking. The indicator would be identical in behaviour to the mission guidance indicator, except it would be shown in green colour.

During docking you get a secondary guidance marker, in green colour (matching the docking lights), on the HUD.

[vvvvvvvv]

Just plain bollocks. You had

I literally picked a random station and random sector without rehearsal. It is 45 seconds from zero to dock from 100+ km away which is, I admit, quite slow.

How would any indicator help here, though? I'm not seeing it.

I also do not recall stations that obscure dock modules. Only player builds station mazes.

Once again - do the same video with guidance activated and then come back to tell me how it's not better for the player.

And what would I need it FOR? Guidance marker does not give you a path, and is visible through station modules. So if you blast towards it you're highly likely to smash into a wall. Then we go back to square one looking at things to plan your move.

(from one of the posts above you did not bother to read)

Kindly stick with discussing arguments, not people. This sort of thing does not make statements more convincing.

[Raptor34]

Just plain bollocks. You had

I literally picked a random station and random sector without rehearsal. It is 45 seconds from zero to dock from 100+ km away which is, I admit, quite slow.

How would any indicator help here, though? I'm not seeing it.

I also do not recall stations that obscure dock modules. Only player builds station mazes.

Once again - do the same video with guidance activated and then come back to tell me how it's not better for the player.

And what would I need it FOR? Guidance marker does not give you a path, and is visible through station modules. So if you blast towards it you're highly likely to smash into a wall. Then we go back to square one looking at things to plan your move.

(from one of the posts above you did not bother to read)

Kindly stick with discussing arguments, not people. This sort of thing does not make statements more convincing.

I don't need a path. But most of the times I can't even find the thing in the first place. Maybe it'll help more if the path starts from outside the station, instead of appearing basically internally.
Try playing some of the timelines missions for a bit, you'll see just how much of a PITA it is trying to find the damned thing.

[alt3rn1ty]

For comparisons/demo purposes - fly out 5-6km away from a station. Observe the dock location. Then hit Shift + G and observe the dock location again. Do the same when 2-3km away from the station and facing away from the dock - this time comparing the green guiding lights against the guidance marker that pops up at the edge of the HUD.

To all the various nay-sayers - try out the quoted example, and then tell me that's not more helpful for the player to locate the docking module/pad.

My bold - Already did that before voting and replying.

[vvvvvvvv]

Try playing some of the timelines missions for a bit, you'll see just how much of a PITA it is trying to find the damned thing.

Which ones specifically?

[azaghal]

Just plain bollocks. You had

I literally picked a random station and random sector without rehearsal. It is 45 seconds from zero to dock from 100+ km away which is, I admit, quite slow.

Once again, in order to locate the docking module, you have had to zoom-in twice in a row to full magnification, had the station against an orange backdrop, and you did have a line of sight against the dock - no other modules blocking it off completely from you view. The initial ship orientation and module position helped as well - slightly above the station, docking pad pointing in "upwards" direction.

How would any indicator help here, though? I'm not seeing it.

Turn on the guidance. You will immediately become aware of docking module's position. If you are turned away from the docking module for whatever reason, you will immediately become aware of general direction the dock is located in, and can start rotating your ships towards it.

I also do not recall stations that obscure dock modules. Only player builds station mazes.

Yes, stations will obscure docking modules, and not just player builds (as you have kindly pointed out, thank you for that one) - depending on the direction you approach them from. That much should be clear. If not - pick your random station, switch to target view, then rotate the view until dock is behind another module. If your ship is approaching the station from that direction, the docking module will be obscured by the rest of the station.

Once again - do the same video with guidance activated and then come back to tell me how it's not better for the player.

And what would I need it FOR? Guidance marker does not give you a path, and is visible through station modules. So if you blast towards it you're highly likely to smash into a wall. Then we go back to square one looking at things to plan your move.

It gives you a visual indication where the module is located, like any other guidance marker in the game. The whole point is that it is visible through station modules - in other words nothing will obscure it. I would assume you will agree that guidance markers are actually useful in the game, or do you play without them altogether? As for why would you blast towards it and through a wall is absolutely beyond me. I assume that nobody (both myself and yourself included) would blast through a solid structure just because that's where the mission guidance markers are pointing to.

[vvvvvvvv]

Once again, in order to locate the docking module, you have had to zoom-in twice in a row to full magnification, had the station against an orange backdrop, and you did have a line of sight against the dock - no other modules blocking it off completely from you view. The initial ship orientation and module position helped as well - slightly above the station, docking pad pointing in "upwards" direction.

* I do not see the problem with zoom and would argue backdrop makes no difference.
* As I mentioned before this is the scenario where the module is not immediately visible, but it becomes noticeable due to massive glow. GLow becomes visible at 6-10 kilometers. In my experience, glow is visible with all backgrounds.
* If you can think of any sector where it is a problem, let's hear it.

At larger distances guiding marker hinders navigation, because the yellow reticle tends to obscure things it points at. This is a common problem when trying to aim at accelerator gate, because it hides the whole thing and that makes it harder to align with the game. Hence I do not use it. At 100 km the station will be, I think, a dot. So the marker will obscure it. With S docks situation is similar, because the whole landing pad is covere by the yellow mess, and I'm not seeing what I'm supposed to point at. In case of NPC pilot the game does not even let you pick a docking port, so the marker becomes irrelevant, as it doesn't matter where you land.

It gives you a visual indication where the module is located, like any other guidance marker in the game.

* I did not ever feel a need to have the guiding marker point at a dock.
* I have an issue, as I said, where guiding marker obscures things it points at. That's the reason why I use zoom, though it took me a while to recall how/why I ended up not using it. Green hologram, by the way, is seen thorugh objects but does not block them.
* The green path's main value is that it directs to the to the piers when you pilot capitals. Capitals are slow, and hologram helps with ships which have unusual docking port position (mainly H)
* In S ships it is mainly useful because it avoid obstacles. This would be useful early on with slow ships. I.e. the path is more useful than final location.
* Main argunet that can be made against green path is that dots fully disappear when they fade out. I.e. it does not retain visible. But this is likely a nod to earlier games and does not cause a big problem. I'm not sure I'd want a green line permanently visible.
* You absolutely will ram into walls, when target is obscured. That ship in the video flies at 20 kilometers per second. The maximum achievable in the game is 25 km/s. At this case entire station passes by in a blink, Maximum station side is 25 km cube, so you'll have a split second to notice something wrong. Which is one more reason for zoom, because you plan movement long before you get there.

One argument I guess could be made is that I played a lot of Elite/XPlane in VR, and Elite does not necessarily give you a path to a dock. Only its numbers. So I'm used at looking at where things are.

Note that while there are may be those who share your preference, there are plenty of people who would not want your proposal implemented. As indicated by the poll. So it would make sense to consider how to implement things you want, while not affecting people who would dislike it. It is not my decision how you play a game on your PC, but I would not want this change in my install. I'd assume other "naysayers" reason in similar fashion.