I need a Xenon wildlife preserve

[LameFox]

Interesting that even in your save where they are doing pretty well they don't take several claimable neutral sectors right next to them. Weird priorities they have.

Whatever is doing it though it does seem better (or at least more normal) in 7.10 even if they haven't explicitly set out to fix it.

[Waltz9]

aren't the amount of sectors the xenon can take hardcoded ?
In that case its not that important for a xenon to take over already neutral sectors.
They want to wipe out all life. not claim sectors where there is no life.

I started several games in 7.0 and the beta after that and I did notice xenon losing sectors but also reclaiming it.
Matrix #451 has fallen.
Faulty Logic I has fallen but is reclaimed by the xenon in one of my games.
Its like HOP has build defence stations in Faulty Logic I without weapons on it, because the xenon wiped out 3 defence stations in no time.
So i don't think its only the xenon thats bugged.
I also want to add I seen a lot of build plots of xenons that remain empty in different seeds.

Also, I think it way to easy to just invade their sectors with a weak S ship and fly through unharmed.
Yes some go after you but even when they are faster then you in travel mode. they don't get you.

Personally I don't want the xenon to be wiped out.
I think its in our best interest to keep them alive, because they boost our economy in the game.

[LameFox]

They do take them sometimes though so it's not like they are set up not to do it. In my 7.10 test they took Mists of Artemis for instance. And also some of them like Frontier Edge are directly on the path to their enemies.

[Koizuki]

aren't the amount of sectors the xenon can take hardcoded ?

I don't... think this is hardcoded? If able, they have taken over quite a lot of sectors in the past (I was helping them take sectors in v6.20 at least, with the Litigious Rodent.)
What is hardcoded is the maximum number of jobs available to them, which means at some point (very rapidly, I think?) they become overextended and the sectors become more vulnerable as a result, making it difficult for them to hold onto huge amounts of territory.

If I could figure out where this expansion logic is held, I could try and take a look to see if there are any hardcoded limits, but I honestly doubt any exist.

[PersonyPerson]

aren't the amount of sectors the xenon can take hardcoded ?

I don't... think this is hardcoded? If able, they have taken over quite a lot of sectors in the past (I was helping them take sectors in v6.20 at least, with the Litigious Rodent.)
What is hardcoded is the maximum number of jobs available to them, which means at some point (very rapidly, I think?) they become overextended and the sectors become more vulnerable as a result, making it difficult for them to hold onto huge amounts of territory.

This pretty much happened later in the same I mentioned. This is what it looks like 259 in-game hours in:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... rbox=false
The Xenon were overstretched, so their ability to push was rather hampered and slow, as they have a lot of fronts to fight on.
They still have the capacity to retain their gains, but huge battlegroups involving Xenon I have become quite rare. They've also done enough damage to their opponents and the overall economy that the gate network's ability to fight back has also been slightly hampered, so it's essentially resulted in a stalemate.

[Pesanur]

In the 7.10 Beta 3 appears that things gone even worse for the xenons. In my old game, until now, they are able to keep the status quo (after blocking the Terran XL shipyard to stop Asgards incursions, and also both of the Teladi L shipyards and one of the MInistry to keep their ability to build new destroyers at minimum), but now the xenon economy have started to fail in Emperor's Pride\Litany of Fury, and also their are under constant ZYA nad TEL strikes in Matrix #451 and Matrix #9, so the only Xenons in the offensive are the ones of Matrix #598\Rhy's Defiance\Family Kritt, and they are stomping against the stations that I built in Zyarth Dominion I and Family Zhin long time ago to help the Zyarths to recover.

Maybe is time to stop repairing my station in Zyarth Dominion I and left the Xenon to spread the havoc in the sector.

[wwf4668]

I have the same problem.
My solution so far is use the cheat mod and spawn K and PE in the affected sectors to bolster their defence. With this strategy, they were able to take Faulty logic 1 back from HOP and make it red again. So they did actually rebuild a defence platform in this sector (7.0).

[Koizuki]

This pretty much happened later in the same I mentioned. This is what it looks like 259 in-game hours in:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... rbox=false
The Xenon were overstretched, so their ability to push was rather hampered and slow, as they have a lot of fronts to fight on.
They still have the capacity to retain their gains, but huge battlegroups involving Xenon I have become quite rare. They've also done enough damage to their opponents and the overall economy that the gate network's ability to fight back has also been slightly hampered, so it's essentially resulted in a stalemate.

That map looks quite similar to what I experienced, although in my case I was physically helping them destroy stations because abusing the Litigious Rodent's Yaki cover mechanic was pretty fun. That said, were the Terrans in your game not sending out Intervention forces?
I had to block them in my game because the Asgard was just steamrolling them, and generally only stops when it gets confronted by an I and multiple K's simultaneously. If you were running an AI-only test, I'm surprised with the Xenon spread so far that the Intervention forces weren't just walking through flipping sectors back left and right.

The core of the issue is that the Xenon stations are not getting Ore, which is why they're not building.

I've seen this in the beta forums as well, though curiously, it doesn't seem like this happens 100% of the time, which is likely why the devs haven't been able to issue a fix yet.
I have noticed some Xenon stations in my 7.0 test games where they sit for a long time without being built, but at the same time, I also saw in that same test game last night that the Xenon actually took Family Tkr after they bombed the FRF equipment dock into oblivion, and they were in the process of taking Family Zhin as well; Their defense platforms there were still under construction, but they had 2 of them building simultaneously, with one having only completed the "core" section (the Xenon dock?) and the other one had the core and one of the turret sections completed. Clearly this means in some cases they are still getting Ore, but in other cases they aren't. Hopefully the devs can eventually pin down what's causing this discrepancy.

[Pesanur]

Now to make things even worse, the Xenons of Matrix #598 and colindat sectors, have started to send Mining SE ships to Litany of Fury and Matrix #9. Don't need to say that all of those SE die trying to reach their destination, so also the ship building in Matrix #598 has been slowed, and at the end, with the SE lossing rate, surely stops.

[PersonyPerson]

This pretty much happened later in the same I mentioned. This is what it looks like 259 in-game hours in:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... rbox=false
The Xenon were overstretched, so their ability to push was rather hampered and slow, as they have a lot of fronts to fight on.
They still have the capacity to retain their gains, but huge battlegroups involving Xenon I have become quite rare. They've also done enough damage to their opponents and the overall economy that the gate network's ability to fight back has also been slightly hampered, so it's essentially resulted in a stalemate.

That map looks quite similar to what I experienced, although in my case I was physically helping them destroy stations because abusing the Litigious Rodent's Yaki cover mechanic was pretty fun. That said, were the Terrans in your game not sending out Intervention forces?
I had to block them in my game because the Asgard was just steamrolling them, and generally only stops when it gets confronted by an I and multiple K's simultaneously. If you were running an AI-only test, I'm surprised with the Xenon spread so far that the Intervention forces weren't just walking through flipping sectors back left and right.

The Terrans certainly were trying, it's just that they got regularly destroyed. An Asgard OOS can't do much if it's on its own being swarmed by fighters, with a K coming along to do the damage.

I will say though, Terran battlegroups started becoming a lot more effective in slowing the Xenon down towards the end of the save, because they were encountering smaller Xenon groups. However, aside from a few assassinations of some defence stations, the Terrans were largely ineffective throughout the entire save.

The core of the issue is that the Xenon stations are not getting Ore, which is why they're not building.

I've seen this in the beta forums as well, though curiously, it doesn't seem like this happens 100% of the time, which is likely why the devs haven't been able to issue a fix yet.
I have noticed some Xenon stations in my 7.0 test games where they sit for a long time without being built, but at the same time, I also saw in that same test game last night that the Xenon actually took Family Tkr after they bombed the FRF equipment dock into oblivion, and they were in the process of taking Family Zhin as well; Their defense platforms there were still under construction, but they had 2 of them building simultaneously, with one having only completed the "core" section (the Xenon dock?) and the other one had the core and one of the turret sections completed. Clearly this means in some cases they are still getting Ore, but in other cases they aren't. Hopefully the devs can eventually pin down what's causing this discrepancy.

The shortages for the unbuilt stations is definitely Ore 99% of the time. In the last save, that 1% was Energy cells when trying to build their station in Open Market, but it was eventually filled.

I don't think the devs have "fixed" it, because as I said earlier, it will have significant ramifications for the balance of the game. If it was only just a simple bug, I'm sure that given the number of reports and complaints about it, that it would have been fixed a long time ago. But if fixing it causes the Xenon to start rolling over the rest of the gate network and make them ridiculously OP, then I can understand why they're hesitant. Statements made by the devs on the issue seem to give the indication that this is the case.

The thing that makes me irrationally mad about this particular unbuilt station issue now, is less to do with the overall impact on the strength of the Xenon (because the dev's reasoning on that front is logical), but more to do with the fact the stations sit there for an extraordinarily long time, not receiving any Ore despite the Xenon having the ability to do so. I'd rather that they were not dropped at all unless the Xenon is 100% sure that they want to expand to that particular system and then fully include all the resources it needs for a quick build. Because otherwise, it gives the impression that something is broken with the Xenon when there probably isn't.

[LameFox]

Now to make things even worse, the Xenons of Matrix #598 and colindat sectors, have started to send Mining SE ships to Litany of Fury and Matrix #9. Don't need to say that all of those SE die trying to reach their destination, so also the ship building in Matrix #598 has been slowed, and at the end, with the SE lossing rate, surely stops.

One thing I noticed that I don't think I wrote in here, is that since they've put more defence platforms into the game near Xenon gates, those SE's sent to bolster other Xenon sectors seem to have a much higher chance of just being wasted resources. Probably at one point it was a better idea for them than it is now.

[zakaluka]

How much is actually random using the same seed? It's seemed pretty consistent before.

The op suggested their last restart was before 7.0. a lot changed in universe generation. The factions get more factories than before (to account for new sectors) and also there are new defense stations at each border gate.

Given the nature of the economy changes, and new sectors, you might also get a totally different station layout than previous game versions, but that's speculative.

[zakaluka]

For the op, I'll make the same suggestion. Go to war with the HOP, start hacking teladi shipyards.

[LameFox]

I really only keep track of key station positions like wharves and so on, which seemed about the same. The new defence platforms likely do play some part though, but since my results were better in 7.10 I guess it's not by itself a deciding factor.

[Waltz9]

In the games I played I came to the conclusion the Ore problem the xenon have is not only a xenon problem but a general problem in the game.
All station I have build who request ore's barely get any delivered.
even at highest prices deliveries of ore is very rare.
If you don't do it yourself your stations will always have shortage of it.

Stations who require silicon on the other hand are always well filled. Even without miners assigned to the station.

[Koizuki]

The shortages for the unbuilt stations is definitely Ore 99% of the time. In the last save, that 1% was Energy cells when trying to build their station in Open Market, but it was eventually filled.

Well, apparently Beta 4 came out, and among the changes was this line:

[Beta 4] Improved resource distribution by Xenon transport ships.

It's fairly vague, but perhaps this was a change to address that common ore issue? I'll have to wait for reports from the players testing it out for now, but there may be some hope.

[v_make]

I blocked the shipyards of the entire universe so nobody can produce destroyers. This way Xenon lives happily in all of their initial sectors gated by my Asgards. Except Scale Plate Green, where they still holds (10 days into the game), but for some reason the power plants gets destroyed and they cannot rebuild it without energy cells... Kind of stupid design. I would really like to supply to their powerplant with energy cells, but I cant.

[Sehnsucht1985]

In my 7.0 save, at 17 days or so (a lot of SETA), Xenon are hyper aggressive, but they still lost Faulty Logic, Atiya's Misfortune and Scale Plate sectors to HOP, ANT and Teladi. They had almost crushed ZYA though, which is par for the course at this point. FRF about the same, though Teladi had taken some of FRF's previous sectors, which was a surprise.

When I saw Terran and Teladi sending a big joint mission (yeah, by chance I presume) into Tharka's Cascade and beyond, it looked like Xenon were toast there as well. So I quickly did the Terran Covert Ops plot and chose war. That 'fixed' everything, since the Intervention Corps is now more interested in smashing ANT and ARG stations than bothering with the machines, and now Xenon have overrun the gate network - even seen them far into Sol - and surprisingly a Xenon I made it as far as my PHQ in Heretics End. Now my save is very interesting again, as I carefully supply both TER and ANT/ARG with materials to keep the ships flowing.

I do like that each of my 5 saves since 2018 has vast differences when it comes to the Xenon presence.

[PersonyPerson]

The shortages for the unbuilt stations is definitely Ore 99% of the time. In the last save, that 1% was Energy cells when trying to build their station in Open Market, but it was eventually filled.

Well, apparently Beta 4 came out, and among the changes was this line:

[Beta 4] Improved resource distribution by Xenon transport ships.

It's fairly vague, but perhaps this was a change to address that common ore issue? I'll have to wait for reports from the players testing it out for now, but there may be some hope.

It was. It fixed the perpetually unbuilt station issue. I tested it with a couple of new but short AI Only saves.

However, before those who've been complaining about the issue for years start celebrating. It seems 7.10 Beta 4 has inadvertently broken other parts of Xenon miner logic, where said miners send themselves to their deaths in significant frequency in attempting to mine the highest yield asteroids in their range, which causes the Xenon economy to collapse in several Xenon clusters within the first ~6 hours because nothing is getting into the Shipyards/Wharfs.

In my 7.0 save, at 17 days or so (a lot of SETA), Xenon are hyper aggressive, but they still lost Faulty Logic, Atiya's Misfortune and Scale Plate sectors to HOP, ANT and Teladi. They had almost crushed ZYA though, which is par for the course at this point. FRF about the same, though Teladi had taken some of FRF's previous sectors, which was a surprise.

When I saw Terran and Teladi sending a big joint mission (yeah, by chance I presume) into Tharka's Cascade and beyond, it looked like Xenon were toast there as well. So I quickly did the Terran Covert Ops plot and chose war. That 'fixed' everything, since the Intervention Corps is now more interested in smashing ANT and ARG stations than bothering with the machines, and now Xenon have overrun the gate network - even seen them far into Sol - and surprisingly a Xenon I made it as far as my PHQ in Heretics End. Now my save is very interesting again, as I carefully supply both TER and ANT/ARG with materials to keep the ships flowing.

I do like that each of my 5 saves since 2018 has vast differences when it comes to the Xenon presence.

The general rule I've observed in my saves is that "More conflict between factions = Strong Xenon. Less Conflict = Weak Xenon". If they're too busy fighting each other, that means less assets for the factions to fight the Xenon.

[Koizuki]

However, before those who've been complaining about the issue for years start celebrating. It seems 7.10 Beta 4 has inadvertently broken other parts of Xenon miner logic, where said miners send themselves to their deaths in significant frequency in attempting to mine the highest yield asteroids in their range, which causes the Xenon economy to collapse in several Xenon clusters within the first ~6 hours because nothing is getting into the Shipyards/Wharfs.

Oh, that is concerning, and an unfortunate regression if true; I feel like they changed some logic specifically to prevent them from suiciding SE's outside their sectors that often in 7.0.
If this is reproducible and observable, hopefully someone will report the issue as a bug to get looked at again. Granted, even in my 7.00 test game, I'm seeing a virtually continuous stream of SE's transiting through the ZYA sectors from Matrix #598, seemingly bound for the Tharka's and Matrix #9 clusters, so I can't be sure that particular logic was working even in this version.