Has technical support always been this bad?

[palm911]

and the only one that never fixes major flaws

Which ones are the mayor flaws? Or are you trolling? Which software companies have this track of support for their games?
You know flaws aren't bugs and for some people those flaws could be good.
I can agree and I don't like some things (walking in the stations, shields and lasers sharing the energy with the booster or minigames) and one game of the series ( I am not going to mention it). That is different that to say "the technical support is bad". you can see it, games that are now 19 years old and you can play them. there are not too many of those, 15 days after the launch have been patched almost daily, I have been around more than 10 years in this forum, flaws aren't bugs, and the support that Egosoft gives to their games is superb. "Never" is normally a word too big to be used."Sigh... I wish people could make a thread without going completely over the top".

what? who likes the x3 ships flying to and back to try to go around the obstacles? or the kingdom end capitals finishing themselves on the asteroids (which by the way affects all player ai ships too)? or that capitals couldnt undock from the phq if you were in the sector because they autoexplode every time and the solution would be as simple as make them fly straight a little more before enabling autopilot... just as some examples but we could talk about dead pathfinding in XR too where all the solution is making rubberspaceships bouncing off things cool feature, sure there are people like them. of course they are better than nonstop exploding ships, i agree but how much better would be actually having a proper flight? ehhh

you are talking about X3 issues over X4 forums and you also said you could talk about XR problems too?

i am seriously confused about what you are trying to accomplish...

Also, i cant understand if you are having such a bad time with egosoft games, why are you playing those? instead of just playing something else?

[CaptainX4]

Which ones are the mayor flaws? Or are you trolling? Which software companies have this track of support for their games?
You know flaws aren't bugs and for some people those flaws could be good.
I can agree and I don't like some things (walking in the stations, shields and lasers sharing the energy with the booster or minigames) and one game of the series ( I am not going to mention it). That is different that to say "the technical support is bad". you can see it, games that are now 19 years old and you can play them. there are not too many of those, 15 days after the launch have been patched almost daily, I have been around more than 10 years in this forum, flaws aren't bugs, and the support that Egosoft gives to their games is superb. "Never" is normally a word too big to be used."Sigh... I wish people could make a thread without going completely over the top".

what? who likes the x3 ships flying to and back to try to go around the obstacles? or the kingdom end capitals finishing themselves on the asteroids (which by the way affects all player ai ships too)? or that capitals couldnt undock from the phq if you were in the sector because they autoexplode every time and the solution would be as simple as make them fly straight a little more before enabling autopilot... just as some examples but we could talk about dead pathfinding in XR too where all the solution is making rubberspaceships bouncing off things cool feature, sure there are people like them. of course they are better than nonstop exploding ships, i agree but how much better would be actually having a proper flight? ehhh

you are talking about X3 issues over X4 forums and you also said you could talk about XR problems too?

i am seriously confused about what you are trying to accomplish...

Also, i cant understand if you are having such a bad time with egosoft games, why are you playing those? instead of just playing something else?

and why are you still discussing me instead of the game?

[palm911]

what? who likes the x3 ships flying to and back to try to go around the obstacles? or the kingdom end capitals finishing themselves on the asteroids (which by the way affects all player ai ships too)? or that capitals couldnt undock from the phq if you were in the sector because they autoexplode every time and the solution would be as simple as make them fly straight a little more before enabling autopilot... just as some examples but we could talk about dead pathfinding in XR too where all the solution is making rubberspaceships bouncing off things cool feature, sure there are people like them. of course they are better than nonstop exploding ships, i agree but how much better would be actually having a proper flight? ehhh

you are talking about X3 issues over X4 forums and you also said you could talk about XR problems too?

i am seriously confused about what you are trying to accomplish...

Also, i cant understand if you are having such a bad time with egosoft games, why are you playing those? instead of just playing something else?

and why are you still discussing me instead of the game?

i asked you if you are having a bad time with egosoft games, why are you playing then,? respond me that question and i will gladly respond yours

[CaptainX4]

you are talking about X3 issues over X4 forums and you also said you could talk about XR problems too?

i am seriously confused about what you are trying to accomplish...

Also, i cant understand if you are having such a bad time with egosoft games, why are you playing those? instead of just playing something else?

and why are you still discussing me instead of the game?

i asked you if you are having a bad time with egosoft games, why are you playing then,? respond me that question and i will gladly respond yours

first of, you are derealing the topic and discussing an other forum-user's person which are both against the rules but if you want to know why i play when i have things in it that I hate answer the next question and you will understand it: if your ISP go nuts and your internet slows down and disconnects all the time and thats the best you can have, will you quit the internet or start complaining but still using it? you see? its simple, it has both good and bad sides and while im complaining for the bad sides i still enjoy the good sides, of course i wont complain because of the good in the game. I want it to get better but if we just sit down and let the bad things sink then nothing will happen and the game will be as it is deemed finished. and i dont want it. all who complains about the game are here because they care and they want it better. if you are having a blast as it is then why arent you actually playing instead of telling us to go away?

[Terre]

Please restrict the content of your posts to the subject of the thread, not each other.

Rule 1. "Personal abuse directed towards another forum member is not permitted under any circumstances. If you are offended by another user's post or conduct, try to contact that user directly to peacefully resolve the issue. In most cases a single PM can solve misunderstandings quickly. If you do not succeed, please contact a moderator for assistance. Do not respond in kind."

[Sentinel-Ghost]

Yes having a post we're bugs have been confirmed woud be greate and maby a mark we are looking in to it. Or something as it is now it lookes like they dont care

What you mean like... this one, viewtopic.php?f=180&t=402386?

[ApoxNM]

But they can't reply everywhere, for obvious reasons.

Nonsense. They don't have to reply everywhere all the time.

Would it be so hard to take 1-3 minutes every day to make a sticky post with issues tehy are working on????
So we at least know what's being done?

A bit transparency and some general info for all of us would go looooong ways. Is that too much to ask for? If 1 man game studios can do it, so can they!

[reqw]

But they can't reply everywhere, for obvious reasons.

Nonsense. They don't have to reply everywhere all the time.

Would it be so hard to take 1-3 minutes every day to make a sticky post with issues tehy are working on????
So we at least know what's being done?

A bit transparency and some general info for all of us would go looooong ways. Is that too much to ask for? If 1 man game studios can do it, so can they!

Yes i agree dont need to answer everything.

cant be to hard to update a post were they post known buggs and say if they are working on it for the next patch or not or something
as it is now we have people me included posting buggs endlasly of the same thing cloging up the forum making it impöosible to actualy see if it is known or not.
we have for gode sake people posting buges from previus updates that have been fixed or suposed to be fixed .

[mr.WHO]

It might be hard for tech support to find he solution without way to recreate the issue or uploaded save game.
I'm reported my problems and had some attention from devs (they tried to fix it in 1.32, but failed), but it seem they speed it up when I attached the save game (now it should be fixed for 1.5).

Additionally when you look at the patch noted you see that they have several dozen other issues to patch up, so it just might be they are a bit overloaded.

[Kadatherion]

Nonsense. They don't have to reply everywhere all the time.

Would it be so hard to take 1-3 minutes every day to make a sticky post with issues tehy are working on????
So we at least know what's being done?

A bit transparency and some general info for all of us would go looooong ways. Is that too much to ask for? If 1 man game studios can do it, so can they!

Why? So that you can feel they are friendly? They're not your friends, they are the ones who sold you a product. What matters is they fix the product if faulty, not whether they promise to. If they won't, in the end, it will have been the same, they'll have probably lost a customer in you. If they will, it will have been the same, they'll probably have kept a customer in you.

I might be cynical, but I know the industry, and what you get by keeping laying out in detail what you are working on at any one time and - especially, and which comes as a direct result of saying it - what you are NOT working on at that specific time only fuels NEGATIVE feedback. "Why are you not working on the bug I've already reported? Why do you consider THAT bug a priority and not MINE? Isn't my game as broken as the others? Me, me, me, please devs, look at me!". I'm sorry, but this is the kind of public this industry has on average.
For what instead is actually being worked upon, getting for it a "bravo" from the public won't make it go live a second earlier, so still no one gains anything except some warm, fuzzy feeling inside. It's pointless. Pleasant from the consumer's point of view, no doubt about that, and maybe even reassuring, but effectively pointless.
Oh, and if what you hope for is a roadmap that you can use to know when you'll be able to play a complete, fulfilling X playthrough from start to finish as we all envision it, then get comfortable, because sticky or no sticky you are in for a long ride, as we all have been time and time again with X games.

Reqw has a point though, and a good one at that: it would help reducing multiple reports of the same things over and over again. Or, better said, could help, because anyway 90% (and I'm optimistic) of the userbase doesn't and won't read such stickies just as they keep ignoring the dozen threads already open with their same exact issues and topic titles (if I read another "wharf doesn't build player ship" I swear I'm gonna scream! ). It's the harsh reality, people are, on average, complete idiots, they don't even read the comments above theirs when replying on the same topic. Of course it couldn't and wouldn't hurt, but then again it's a matter of cost-benefit, and the ratio often lies on the former.

Add the fact it's already obvious they had several missteps and stumbled on several things that have given them much more issues than they had foreseen. All the various patches that were supposed to fix a certain issue and didn't are proof of that. So what should they do next, each time this happens (and mark my words: it will happen again, it always does, and that's for sure not just an Egosoft problem but it's the nature of this work)? Open another sticky saying they're sorry, explaining in detail what didn't work as they expected and what they have in mind to yet again tackle the issue from another perspective? They could, it would be nice, but then one day they wake up and they're not developers anymore, they are friggin' fashion bloggers. "1-3 minutes a day"? Really? You really think it's that easy? It's not hard per se, for sure, but actually, you mentioned one man studios: guess what, it's even much easier to do for them, for the very reason there's nothing to communicate and gather among various devs, the pipeline has no branches.

Certain things will take a long time to be fixed - if they ever will - as it was in the past. For instance, OF COURSE they are working and will work at trying to make the autopillock™ better, but mentioning it in a "issues we are working on" sticky will only serve, at each and every patch, to fuel, as said, this reply: "why not yet? Why not yet? Why not yet?". Which only serves to make them embarrassed. Are there quite legitimate reasons for them to be embarrassed at certain things they couldn't deliver and always have a very hard time to? Maybe, probably, we might agree on that. Is there a reason for them to feed such embarrassement, though? I hardly see one. If I were in their shoes I'd probably do the same they are doing. As I'm not in their shoes I - as a customer - get the short end of the stick, no doubt, but that doesn't change reality. If they were ever to still do that, then more power to them, I could only be glad, but if they don't I can perfectly understand that. I might not like it, per se, but understand it.

Of course, to close, you might not agree with my point of view, it's perfectly legitimate. But maybe this wall of text will be enough of a hint to infer that no, whether you agree or not, it's not nonsense.

[letwolf]

"why not yet", thinking me, why not yet can I transfer crew and wares between ships when they are in 5 km away , using some sort of teleporter device? Just like X3TC? Who really does need that stupid "Comm" with every person that I want to fire? This not giving any amount of "realism". This gives a lot of idiotism and excess micromanagement in game.

[ApoxNM]

Nonsense. They don't have to reply everywhere all the time.

Would it be so hard to take 1-3 minutes every day to make a sticky post with issues tehy are working on????
So we at least know what's being done?

A bit transparency and some general info for all of us would go looooong ways. Is that too much to ask for? If 1 man game studios can do it, so can they!

Why? So that you can feel they are friendly? They're not your friends, they are the ones who sold you a product. What matters is they fix the product if faulty, not whether they promise to. If they won't, in the end, it will have been the same, they'll have probably lost a customer in you. If they will, it will have been the same, they'll probably have kept a customer in you.

I might be cynical, but I know the industry, and what you get by keeping laying out in detail what you are working on at any one time and - especially, and which comes as a direct result of saying it - what you are NOT working on at that specific time only fuels NEGATIVE feedback. "Why are you not working on the bug I've already reported? Why do you consider THAT bug a priority and not MINE? Isn't my game as broken as the others? Me, me, me, please devs, look at me!". I'm sorry, but this is the kind of public this industry has on average.
For what instead is actually being worked upon, getting for it a "bravo" from the public won't make it go live a second earlier, so still no one gains anything except some warm, fuzzy feeling inside. It's pointless. Pleasant from the consumer's point of view, no doubt about that, and maybe even reassuring, but effectively pointless.
Oh, and if what you hope for is a roadmap that you can use to know when you'll be able to play a complete, fulfilling X playthrough from start to finish as we all envision it, then get comfortable, because sticky or no sticky you are in for a long ride, as we all have been time and time again with X games.

Reqw has a point though, and a good one at that: it would help reducing multiple reports of the same things over and over again. Or, better said, could help, because anyway 90% (and I'm optimistic) of the userbase doesn't and won't read such stickies just as they keep ignoring the dozen threads already open with their same exact issues and topic titles (if I read another "wharf doesn't build player ship" I swear I'm gonna scream! ). It's the harsh reality, people are, on average, complete idiots, they don't even read the comments above theirs when replying on the same topic. Of course it couldn't and wouldn't hurt, but then again it's a matter of cost-benefit, and the ratio often lies on the former.

Add the fact it's already obvious they had several missteps and stumbled on several things that have given them much more issues than they had foreseen. All the various patches that were supposed to fix a certain issue and didn't are proof of that. So what should they do next, each time this happens (and mark my words: it will happen again, it always does, and that's for sure not just an Egosoft problem but it's the nature of this work)? Open another sticky saying they're sorry, explaining in detail what didn't work as they expected and what they have in mind to yet again tackle the issue from another perspective? They could, it would be nice, but then one day they wake up and they're not developers anymore, they are friggin' fashion bloggers. "1-3 minutes a day"? Really? You really think it's that easy? It's not hard per se, for sure, but actually, you mentioned one man studios: guess what, it's even much easier to do for them, for the very reason there's nothing to communicate and gather among various devs, the pipeline has no branches.

Certain things will take a long time to be fixed - if they ever will - as it was in the past. For instance, OF COURSE they are working and will work at trying to make the autopillock™ better, but mentioning it in a "issues we are working on" sticky will only serve, at each and every patch, to fuel, as said, this reply: "why not yet? Why not yet? Why not yet?". Which only serves to make them embarrassed. Are there quite legitimate reasons for them to be embarrassed at certain things they couldn't deliver and always have a very hard time to? Maybe, probably, we might agree on that. Is there a reason for them to feed such embarrassement, though? I hardly see one. If I were in their shoes I'd probably do the same they are doing. As I'm not in their shoes I - as a customer - get the short end of the stick, no doubt, but that doesn't change reality. If they were ever to still do that, then more power to them, I could only be glad, but if they don't I can perfectly understand that. I might not like it, per se, but understand it.

Of course, to close, you might not agree with my point of view, it's perfectly legitimate. But maybe this wall of text will be enough of a hint to infer that no, whether you agree or not, it's not nonsense.

Definatelly some embarrassment on their part is due.

Hell, I would be embarrassed if would make the same game over 18 years and have the same bugs every time, and couldn't manage to get things working after publishing so many games, which are esentially the same game (from the general mechanics point of view).

You are right about people not reading and all that.

But it really does aggrevate me that there is absolute no mention anywhere of certain bugs and when they intend to fix them. I would appreciate knowing "bugs, 1,2,3 are not on the priority, will be fixed mid next year probably."
Then at least I know when I can expect some mechanics, which I want working and not wait around and check the damn forum to see if any official mention of anything came up.

It's a lack of respect to the costumer. I work with people all the time, If somebody in my company screws up, I am usually the one who has to listen to the customers, explain and be patient even if it's not my fault. It's a business. I expect certain things from a good business and that is customer service. Guess what people consider good customer servicein the gaming indsutry will vary. But communication for me is up top with quick fixes and responses to bugs. They got one part right, but not the other.

[palm911]

and why are you still discussing me instead of the game?

i asked you if you are having a bad time with egosoft games, why are you playing then,? respond me that question and i will gladly respond yours

first of, you are derealing the topic and discussing an other forum-user's person which are both against the rules but if you want to know why i play when i have things in it that I hate answer the next question and you will understand it: if your ISP go nuts and your internet slows down and disconnects all the time and thats the best you can have, will you quit the internet or start complaining but still using it? you see? its simple, it has both good and bad sides and while im complaining for the bad sides i still enjoy the good sides, of course i wont complain because of the good in the game. I want it to get better but if we just sit down and let the bad things sink then nothing will happen and the game will be as it is deemed finished. and i dont want it. all who complains about the game are here because they care and they want it better. if you are having a blast as it is then why arent you actually playing instead of telling us to go away?

so that you know, trolling is also against the rules... bringing issues from another game, and complain in X4 forum using X3 past problems, is also a bad practice, and only shows you are not being constructive. and your just here to talk about things that could not apply to the x4 game, if you want to bring feedback thats cool, there is plenty of that here, in fact i have brought my share of criticism too, but doing what i just saw is being seen by some of us as TOXIC.

to respond your question, ill change MY ISP, reason why we have so many ISP choices today. i am not here to tell my ISP how to run their business, if service is bad i change it in a heartbeat.

i also care about the game. and you should know about egosoft support over those games, in fact several of us has told you about it, but it seems to me , you want those things you deemed important to be fixed NOW. Game got released 16! Days ago! and they are WORKING NON STOP to fix improve the game, (is not that obvious?)

Regards.

[CaptainX4]

i asked you if you are having a bad time with egosoft games, why are you playing then,? respond me that question and i will gladly respond yours

first of, you are derealing the topic and discussing an other forum-user's person which are both against the rules but if you want to know why i play when i have things in it that I hate answer the next question and you will understand it: if your ISP go nuts and your internet slows down and disconnects all the time and thats the best you can have, will you quit the internet or start complaining but still using it? you see? its simple, it has both good and bad sides and while im complaining for the bad sides i still enjoy the good sides, of course i wont complain because of the good in the game. I want it to get better but if we just sit down and let the bad things sink then nothing will happen and the game will be as it is deemed finished. and i dont want it. all who complains about the game are here because they care and they want it better. if you are having a blast as it is then why arent you actually playing instead of telling us to go away?

so that you know, trolling is also against the rules...

Regards.

so now you call me a troll? there was no trolling anywhere

[palm911]

first of, you are derealing the topic and discussing an other forum-user's person which are both against the rules but if you want to know why i play when i have things in it that I hate answer the next question and you will understand it: if your ISP go nuts and your internet slows down and disconnects all the time and thats the best you can have, will you quit the internet or start complaining but still using it? you see? its simple, it has both good and bad sides and while im complaining for the bad sides i still enjoy the good sides, of course i wont complain because of the good in the game. I want it to get better but if we just sit down and let the bad things sink then nothing will happen and the game will be as it is deemed finished. and i dont want it. all who complains about the game are here because they care and they want it better. if you are having a blast as it is then why arent you actually playing instead of telling us to go away?

so that you know, trolling is also against the rules...

Regards.

so now you call me a troll? there was no trolling anywhere

no i am telling you trolling is against the rules, i edited my post to clarify.

Regards.

[Alan Phipps]

Since this thread is going nowhere constructive very quickly and has become very personal (again) it can close here. This will no doubt please CaptainX4 who accurately predicted that we would do this.