Why X4 feels empty and / or unfinished (explanation)

[Assailer]

It's a solid start. I can see how the coming DLCs will extend further the universe. All in all I'm enjoying the ride.

[Mahkamar]

All thats left in my game of xenon-khaak is their sectors, they are wiped out, not even trying to come back , the so called war i cant do any with as paranid guild missions are not working past the inital quest , so now its a glorified building simulator where there is no risk and the whole universe is filled with ships that will never die and thus market is coming to a screeching halt, factories have full stock and no consuming happening , sigh

[Warnoise]

X3 was functionally unplayable at release. There wasn't really an economy and periodically stations wouldn't make anything. It crash consistently.

The idea that X4 on release should play like X3 TC/AP did after 5 years of patches, some huge DLC/expansions and a bevvy of your favorite mods is absurd. It's vastly more stable and has dramatically more functioning parts and potential than X3 did at release.

Accepting mediocrity and excusing Egosofts release desasters is giving in to sunken cost fallacy.

+9000

[SteveMill]

"There are a lot of people complaining about X4 feeling very empty, unfinished, nothing to do, barely anything going on, etc..."


I don't see how this can be unless they are looking for a hand holding, story driven, direct path to an end kind of game ... which is something X has never been. I have a mere 25 hours playtime in X4 so far and I've transported people, docked on corvette class ships with my scout, found hidden missions in data leaks, scanned for good mining resources, destroyed some laser towers, repaired some satellites, ran from a pack of Xenon smothering a highway & gate I wanted to go through, discovered more than 1 anomaly that transports me somewhere else, successfully shot 10 locks off a round spinning lockbox, saved a ship in a mine field, crafted some security bypass chips and sold them to a black market dealer in a bar with excellent music playing, and only recently upgraded from my starting scout to a real fighter. I have yet to get to mining, trading, station building, Boron saving, or joining sides in the war. I'm sure there's more, but ya'll get the point by now ...

+1

Well said!

Yea but in previous X series games an account of 25 hours of gameplay would read like Lord Of The Rings. I’m enjoying X4 so far but lets not pretend it’s anything other than it is. A working barebones and not a finished product. It shows great promise but that’s it

[JamesTheClarke]

Overall I really enjoy my time in X4 and I agree it has a ton of potential. Even the bugs and the current lack of combat don't worry me too much, as they will be patched fairly soon. To be clear, they infuriate me as the game was sold as a full release, not early access but they don't make me question the future of the game or the series itself.


However, what really alarms me the longer I think about it is the dangerous precedence that X4 is setting with its decision to not include half of the main cast of the X-Universe: Borons, Terrans and Split without publishing a clear roadmap of how and when they will be implemented. The official statement regarding "new races" in upcoming expansions is fairly ambiguously worded, does that refer to actual new races or will main factions we've seen in every X game since X2/3 from now on sold to us piece-meal as paid DLC?

I've been rambling about the lack of major factions and the copy-paste nature of the sub-factions in my post Factions - A Missing Opportunity. Currently, X4 offers half the major factions, fewer sub-factions (which are also less defined) and a smaller ship catalogue than X3 over a decade ago while the price for the game remained virtually unchanged. Arguments stating that X2 or X3 were buggy as well at release so we shouldn't be upset don't convince me much with this release because even if you put bugs aside, there is a distinct and clear drop in content at release between the predecessors and this game. The initial content-offer this game gives its customers to play around with is just not what we expect coming from X2 or X3, to which X4 is supposed to be a worthy successor - especially when priced as a full release and not as a crowd-funded project or early access.


I get that due to the new ship models requiring interior designs it also requires more resources to produce them. But that was a deliberate design-choice by Egosoft during early development and if that means fewer major factions can be in the initial release two things would have been necessary to mitigate the negative impact:

1.) More ships for each of the three main factions Argon, Teladi and Paranid at release

2.) A clear roadmap communicated by Egosoft when and how the missing three factions Borons, Terrans and Split are going to be released


If half of the main X universe cast will become paid DLC in the future I really don't know if I can remain a fan of the series. Which is a shame, because the X universe is my favourite space game ever made.

[Warnoise]

Overall I really enjoy my time in X4 and I agree it has a ton of potential. Even the bugs and the current lack of combat don't worry me too much, as they will be patched fairly soon. To be clear, they infuriate me as the game was sold as a full release, not early access but they don't make me question the future of the game or the series itself.


However, what really alarms me the longer I think about it is the dangerous precedence that X4 is setting with its decision to not include half of the main cast of the X-Universe: Borons, Terrans and Split without publishing a clear roadmap of how and when they will be implemented. The official statement regarding "new races" in upcoming is fairly ambiguously worded, does that refer to actual new races or will main factions we've seen in every X game since X2 from now on sold to us piece-meal as paid DLC?

I've been rambling about the lack of major factions and the copy-paste nature of the sub-factions in my post Factions - A Missing Opportunity. Currently, X4 offers half the major factions, fewer sub-factions (which are also less defined) and a smaller ship catalogue than X3 over a decade ago while the price for the game remained virtually unchanged. That worries me a lot. Especially after the very rocky start and mixed reception of the previous X game: Rebirth.


I get that due to the new ship models requiring interior designs it also requires more resources to produce them. But that was a deliberate design-choice by Egosoft during early development and if that means fewer major factions can be in the initial release two things would have been necessary to mitigate the negative impact:

1.) More ships for each of the three main factions Argon, Teladi and Paranid at release

2.) A clear roadmap communicated by Egosoft when and how the missing three factions Borons, Terrans and Split are going to be released


If half of the main X universe cast will become paid DLC in the future I really don't know if I can remain a fan of the series. Which is a shame, because the X universe is my favourite space game ever made.

New ships will be in DLC. its the new norm in gaming industry now. Release half a game then sell the remaining half via DLC's.

[Andrew Gaspurr]

It's a solid start. I can see how the coming DLCs will extend further the universe. All in all I'm enjoying the ride.

...until you have to pay dearly for a DLC that "fixes" or implements things that should have been there from the very beginning

[Frankenleigen]

I'm finding enough content to keep me engaged for the moment. Part of the way I play is to move very slowly, take my time to explore or hang out in one sector while focusing on a single project. I haven't even started working with stations or L ships yet.

Many aspects of the game really do feel threadbare - but I think they've proven that they have their priorities right. The encyclopedia, tooltips, deeper combat, more factions, more lively empire AI, more interesting locations and missions etc. do not require structural work and can simply be added over time.

I think that as long as they continue regular patches with minor upgrades here and there along the way there is plenty to string me along until the first expansion. They've got the skeleton right, and I trust Egosoft to continue their tradition of supporting and expanding games for years after release.

[Gavrushka]

"There are a lot of people complaining about X4 feeling very empty, unfinished, nothing to do, barely anything going on, etc..."


I don't see how this can be unless they are looking for a hand holding, story driven, direct path to an end kind of game ... which is something X has never been. I have a mere 25 hours playtime in X4 so far and I've transported people, docked on corvette class ships with my scout, found hidden missions in data leaks, scanned for good mining resources, destroyed some laser towers, repaired some satellites, ran from a pack of Xenon smothering a highway & gate I wanted to go through, discovered more than 1 anomaly that transports me somewhere else, successfully shot 10 locks off a round spinning lockbox, saved a ship in a mine field, crafted some security bypass chips and sold them to a black market dealer in a bar with excellent music playing, and only recently upgraded from my starting scout to a real fighter. I have yet to get to mining, trading, station building, Boron saving, or joining sides in the war. I'm sure there's more, but ya'll get the point by now ...

Although I might have written it a little more tactfully, this is the essence of the issue for some. I play similarly to Baddieus, and feel no time pressure to grow a bank balance or have the best ship. It'll come in time, and it'll probably take me a year or more to achieve what some players may expect within a few days.

The other thing I believe is that Egosoft concentrated on the core of the game after the panning they received for X Rebirth (a game I bought last year, and enjoyed immensely - please don't be angry at me! LOL.) Anyhow, I believe that functionality will be added after they've stabilised the current version. - Egosoft have always listened to the community, and I don't expect it to be any different this time. (and yes, they've almost always released games with teething problems... )


Perhaps those who are finding the current version so irritating should shelve the game for a month or two, perhaps permanently. Maybe they can revisit it when new content has been added /mods that tailor it more to their liking. - And I'm sure there'll be plenty of people who will be happy to offer up one of their savegames for those who don't like the prospect of going through the early-game stage.

[JamesTheClarke]

New ships will be in DLC. its the new norm in gaming industry now. Release half a game then sell the remaining half via DLC's.

I am fighting the urge to be cynical (although at times I really want to ) but I am still holding out hope that the missing main factions will be part of free content updates while "new races" will refer to actual new factions with their own storylines. Maybe even instead of a faction some space fauna similar to what X3:TC Xtenden mod introduced.

Do you think Borons, Terrans and Split will become paid DLC for sure?

[gastovski]

I do NOT consider this game completed. Not when past X games had content in it that this game does not ( real fights for one thing. Then there's NO DESCRIPTIONS FOR WEAPONS IN THE SHOPS).

If THAT'S your idea of "complete" then you have very low expectations. This game is a rushed release for Christmas and the devs know it. I know it, they know it and I think deep down YOU know it even if you're in denial about it. The "added features" are complete (immersion in this case) but core gameplay mechanics simply are not. Without the later the former wears off and leaves little in the end.

It will get fixed but really, must we pay for a FULL game (as was ADVERTISED) which lacks content from past games and then pay EVEN MORE for DLC? People are sick of that BS already from other companies doing it. Let alone withholding (or otherwise oversighting) things from past games in the same series for a later date. First time with X3? Fine, it's a new thing. It's a new game back then. Series still growing. But now? After they done it already?

As a quick example, in TC I can quickly go up to a station and start a mission which gets combat going. Quick, clean efficient. X4? Go to that one innocent ships and attack it for a wedding wing. The combat missions aren't even present. And yet they were in PAST games. Explain that.

damn well said.

[Andrew Gaspurr]

With the way some elements of the game were implemented (anomalies, inactive jump gates), it's apparently clear where the road will lead us. Faction DLC maybe with a kickoff story mission to "activate" those new venues. Like with so many other games, I can imagine Egosoft providing basic features for free while releasing new content behind paywalls - ah sorry as DLC updates. Couple this with a vanity shop and "seasonal" events and you have concocted the potion they will give us to swallow. Whether it's a healing potion or a potion of suffering is up to you, I guess...

[Playbahnosh]

While it has some story planned for expansions, the game itself is completed, even though some bugs here and there.

What the hell are you smoking?!
The game is not even halfway done, the encyclopedia is empty, there are placeholders and unimplemented stuff everywhere, no plot missions, half the sectors, main factions and races are missing, only a tiny fraction of the ships and equipment exists, there are entire game mechanics and functions missing entirely, etc. Oh, and it bugs out and crashes left and right, not to mention the abysmal performance on even high-end systems. If you think this is a "completed" game, I honestly feel very sorry for you.

[meanhile in our universe]

But it's not like we didn't expect this. Releasing an unfinished, buggy, unplayable mess is in line with Egosoft's release policy for all their previous games. This is normal. Now comes the uphill battle of waiting for modders and the community to fix this broken mess into a good game, but that will take years, as usual. I suggest you find something else to play and come back to X4 a year from now. I bet it will be a completely different (better) game by then.

[Alewx]

"There are a lot of people complaining about X4 feeling very empty, unfinished, nothing to do, barely anything going on, etc..."


I don't see how this can be unless they are looking for a hand holding, story driven, direct path to an end kind of game ... which is something X has never been. I have a mere 25 hours playtime in X4 so far and I've transported people, docked on corvette class ships with my scout, found hidden missions in data leaks, scanned for good mining resources, destroyed some laser towers, repaired some satellites, ran from a pack of Xenon smothering a highway & gate I wanted to go through, discovered more than 1 anomaly that transports me somewhere else, successfully shot 10 locks off a round spinning lockbox, saved a ship in a mine field, crafted some security bypass chips and sold them to a black market dealer in a bar with excellent music playing, and only recently upgraded from my starting scout to a real fighter. I have yet to get to mining, trading, station building, Boron saving, or joining sides in the war. I'm sure there's more, but ya'll get the point by now ...

+1

Well said!

That is just casual stuff, where is the real core of the game, managing an empire?
where is the expansion of the factions, the wars over sectors? All I saw so far are a few Xenon and Kha'ak that came and were poofed right away.
IT kind of reminds me a bit of Pizza Connection 3 where the game was just empty because designers decided that the coregameplay should be simplistic stuff that was not what the consumer group wanted.

[Raider_MXD]

"There are a lot of people complaining about X4 feeling very empty, unfinished, nothing to do, barely anything going on, etc..."

I don't see how this can be unless they are looking for a hand holding, story driven, direct path to an end kind of game ... which is something X has never been.

I'm sorry, but this not about the end game but about gameplay from the get go. Once the batch of enemies spawned initially is eliminated nothing is happening anymore. You can basically just sit there and watch your miners and transports do their thing automatically because due to a almost complete lack of military activity no one is going to bother them. At some point down the road that lack of activity results in the economy largely grinding to a halt due to low global ressource consumption and then the sandbox basically is dead - which for a sandbox game is less than ideal.

[CaptainX4]

I might be alone with this view on the unhappy side but I'm fine with the amount of ships and can even accept the amount of sectors or races. of course it would be better having all the x3 races, all the ship variety etc but i also see that this would be an impossible feat to be pulled by egosoft... I have to say they have awesome designers for my personal taste, made nice ships, stations and now even the characters are good, fixed the highways to the level where they are good enough, i love the pilots and crews in my ship, i like that traders are back and simply love standing in a dock watching the ships come and go. even the missions are good enough. i still got bored of the game in 5 days. in this time the npc BUILT UP EVERYTHING! there are tens of every kind of stations in every single sector, there is no need for anything and this isnt because there is no sink. its because the economy is just faked again. sure production is happening, sure traders are running around but there is no money behind it. things are coming and going from/to an infinite well. In the fear of the economy going to a halt because something is missing, now nothing is missing. everything is so cheap and easy to get. sure the npc-s pull up 5 stations in a few hours because they need no money to do that. just go buy any resource from the infinite well, go build it, it seems they dont even need traders though they have build storage, never seen any to be used ever (other than mine). In 5 days I have a fleet of ships including many capitals, i have a group of production stations all halted full of products, the sectors have 20-30 or even more stations... i literally reached the end of the game. there is no challenge. i was already just sitting all day on my crane watching it mining because that was the most interesting stuff to do. there are no pirate stations, there are no pirate patrols, there are no xenon raids, the wars are behind walls but the most frustrating is the broken economy.. again

[Graaf]

Original Post with bad excuses.

Excuse me, but shouldn't the main factions be established since they have been around for quite some time? You, the player character, may be new but they aren't.

[ChaosShadow00x]

Because it is.

/thread

[Sleecc]

"I flew through Xenon space without even getting a pot shot at me"

In X3 I could do the same until my fight rank increased significantly. A 'defend station' mission in the early game of X3 was not much more than an L with a pair of N's, but once the fight rank was up they would send the entire Xenon alphabet after that same station bringing literally 80-100 ships in though a gate like a swarm of insects. I say that we should all just keep playing and see how far things will go after some reputation is built up ... and not worry about the release bugs because Egosoft has a history of refining their products into gems.

+1
I can only also support this!

My experience on game so far
X4 is one of the few games which actually relaxes me and yes I know, ALL X-Universe games are not fully done on release day therefor I played at a slow pace. BUT this is also one of the few games which simply mature more and more with time cause their Devs are actually looking at feedback and fixing things.

First impression
- the tutorial should be called more like "Hints" ... tutorial is simply the wrong word for it. This is a pity since you need to draw need players to the game and not scare them away.
- at last my old X3 concept is back (lets simply forget the Rebirth + other crap in between....)
- game feels like the main structure is good, like 60% - 70%
- well the rest still needs tweaking but this is easy, since adding new missions etc. polishing traders etc. will all be tweaked and come in time
- what we have now is all we need to have an awesome game at a later stage
- to be honest this game is way too complex to expect a 100% smooth start, all will be smoothed out in time (X3-reunion - auto traders were crappy, community updated scripts, tweaked them having a way better AI and performance. Egosoft brought this script out at normal patch into vanilla game --> result awesome! )
- my opinion is also to simply play it slow and the game will mature like a good red wine

Impression from posts everywhere
It must be the current times but people want everything in smaller and smaller windows. They simply dont have the patience for things to evolve, develop. So if the pace now is exactly the same as X3-Reunion used to be, now people would say ... OMG it is boring ... everything way too slow. Go play Fortnite or Quake for achievement hunting, this is the wrong game for that.
I had to play like 30 hours (old X3-Reunion) before I started with my factory building.
There was SO MUCH to do before that. Why it seems like everyone simply want to rush rush rush ... crazy. Simply enjoy the experience of the moment, enjoy the ride ...
Baddieus viewtopic.php?f=146&t=404700#p4769719 explained it best in this post of his. I feel exactly the same way about this game.

Closing
I think we have gotten a good half-empty penthouse and we will slowly start to fill it with more life. Getting furniture, moving it and painting the walls is really no hassle in this great penthouse!
This game is also not for people with a certain mind set. They will ALWAYS find it boring.
This has been one of the best Egosoft releases so I'm very relaxed about everything and Im sure it will change alot with time especially with this community and the behavior of the Devs.

PS: Look at when many members registered at this forum than you ll see what kind of community play this game.

[SteveMill]

Maybe it feels so empty because X3:AP had a shat-load of content in the end.
- 325 ships,
- around 100 sektors,
- tons of weapons, missiles and equipment
- a fully build up universe from the beginning

the fact that many people spend hundreds of hours (me included) with so much stuff would make feel every game empty

I installed the Litcube Universe mod for X3AP, which breathes new life into an old game. Realised how much more was in the old universe in terms of ships, equipment and weapons.

I can see why Egosoft have simplified things and shortened game loops so drastically though. You have to be a dedicated fan of the genre to put the work in you need to get to grips with it.

The time of games like the old X series has gone. We’re on a new path now. It’s just a shame they had to release it in its current state but that’s how it is.

I’m looking forward to something great being built on this framework. I do miss the epic battles though.