Blue Screen Of Death (2.50)

[Alan Phipps]

Start MSDOS Command Prompt by right-clicking on it and select 'Run as Admin' to get the higher level prompt screen. Now type in 'sfc /scannow' without the inverted commas and see if that detects (and maybe repairs) any issues with your OS files. If that shows the OS was OK then we have to go hardware or device driver issue hunting.

[illusive_pimpernel]

Start MSDOS Command Prompt by right-clicking on it and select 'Run as Admin' to get the higher level prompt screen. Now type in 'sfc /scannow' without the inverted commas and see if that detects (and maybe repairs) any issues with your OS files. If that shows the OS was OK then we have to go hardware or device driver issue hunting.

Okily Dokily. Another day another round of bug fixing. I ran the command prompt as administrator with the command you specified:

Windows protection found corrupt files and successfully repaired them. Details are included in CBS.Log windir\logs\CBS\CBS.log

You reckon this was the problem? Ill run the same scenario from my save and report back ASAP. Thanks Alan

[Malankatank]

Sorry i can not contribute but i want to say THIS THREAD is exactly whats right with these forums. If you have a problem somone will try to help you. Awesome.

[illusive_pimpernel]

Start MSDOS Command Prompt by right-clicking on it and select 'Run as Admin' to get the higher level prompt screen. Now type in 'sfc /scannow' without the inverted commas and see if that detects (and maybe repairs) any issues with your OS files. If that shows the OS was OK then we have to go hardware or device driver issue hunting.

Okily Dokily. Another day another round of bug fixing. I ran the command prompt as administrator with the command you specified:

Windows protection found corrupt files and successfully repaired them. Details are included in CBS.Log windir\logs\CBS\CBS.log

You reckon this was the problem? Ill run the same scenario from my save and report back ASAP. Thanks Alan

Hi. I managed to play rebirth for another 20 hours which means iv'e logged 26 hours on free play so far. I havn't had a problem since I repaired the broken os files a few days ago as per Alan's instruction. But I got the blue screen of death again today. This is what the event viewer said happened in the second that the blue screen occurred: (five events - one critical)

This is the critical event:
Event kernel power 41, category 63, critical event

These are the four information events that occurred in the same second as the critical event

Log Name: System
Source: Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Processor-Power
Date: 17/10/2014 20:10:29
Event ID: 26
Task Category: (4)
Level: Information
Keywords:
User: SYSTEM
Computer: -PC

Description:
Processor 0 in group 0 exposes the following:

1 idle state(s)
2 performance state(s)
0 throttle state(s)

Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
<System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Processor-Power" Guid="{0F67E49F-FE51-4E9F-B490-6F2948CC6027}" />
<EventID>26</EventID>
<Version>0</Version>
<Level>4</Level>
<Task>4</Task>
<Opcode>0</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8000000000000000</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2014-10-17T19:10:29.644812500Z" />
<EventRecordID>253778</EventRecordID>
<Correlation />
<Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="60" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>-PC</Computer>
<Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
</System>
<EventData>
<Data Name="Group">0</Data>
<Data Name="Number">0</Data>
<Data Name="IdleStateCount">1</Data>
<Data Name="PerfStateCount">2</Data>
<Data Name="ThrottleStateCount">0</Data>
<ComplexData Name="IdleState">01</ComplexData>
<ComplexData Name="PerfState">5A090000640000003C06000042000000</ComplexData>
</EventData>
</Event>

Log Name: System
Source: Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Processor-Power
Date: 17/10/2014 20:10:29
Event ID: 26
Task Category: (4)
Level: Information
Keywords:
User: SYSTEM
Computer: -PC

Description:
Processor 3 in group 0 exposes the following:

1 idle state(s)
2 performance state(s)
0 throttle state(s)

Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
<System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Processor-Power" Guid="{0F67E49F-FE51-4E9F-B490-6F2948CC6027}" />
<EventID>26</EventID>
<Version>0</Version>
<Level>4</Level>
<Task>4</Task>
<Opcode>0</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8000000000000000</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2014-10-17T19:10:29.644812500Z" />
<EventRecordID>253781</EventRecordID>
<Correlation />
<Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="60" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>-PC</Computer>
<Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
</System>
<EventData>
<Data Name="Group">0</Data>
<Data Name="Number">3</Data>
<Data Name="IdleStateCount">1</Data>
<Data Name="PerfStateCount">2</Data>
<Data Name="ThrottleStateCount">0</Data>
<ComplexData Name="IdleState">01</ComplexData>
<ComplexData Name="PerfState">5A090000640000003C06000042000000</ComplexData>
</EventData>
</Event>

Log Name: System
Source: Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Processor-Power
Date: 17/10/2014 20:10:29
Event ID: 26
Task Category: (4)
Level: Information
Keywords:
User: SYSTEM
Computer: -PC

Description:
Processor 2 in group 0 exposes the following:

1 idle state(s)
2 performance state(s)
0 throttle state(s)

Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
<System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Processor-Power" Guid="{0F67E49F-FE51-4E9F-B490-6F2948CC6027}" />
<EventID>26</EventID>
<Version>0</Version>
<Level>4</Level>
<Task>4</Task>
<Opcode>0</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8000000000000000</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2014-10-17T19:10:29.644812500Z" />
<EventRecordID>253780</EventRecordID>
<Correlation />
<Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="60" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>-PC</Computer>
<Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
</System>
<EventData>
<Data Name="Group">0</Data>
<Data Name="Number">2</Data>
<Data Name="IdleStateCount">1</Data>
<Data Name="PerfStateCount">2</Data>
<Data Name="ThrottleStateCount">0</Data>
<ComplexData Name="IdleState">01</ComplexData>
<ComplexData Name="PerfState">5A090000640000003C06000042000000</ComplexData>
</EventData>
</Event>

Log Name: System
Source: Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Processor-Power
Date: 17/10/2014 20:10:29
Event ID: 26
Task Category: (4)
Level: Information
Keywords:
User: SYSTEM
Computer: -PC

Description:
Processor 1 in group 0 exposes the following:

1 idle state(s)
2 performance state(s)
0 throttle state(s)

Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
<System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Processor-Power" Guid="{0F67E49F-FE51-4E9F-B490-6F2948CC6027}" />
<EventID>26</EventID>
<Version>0</Version>
<Level>4</Level>
<Task>4</Task>
<Opcode>0</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8000000000000000</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2014-10-17T19:10:29.644812500Z" />
<EventRecordID>253779</EventRecordID>
<Correlation />
<Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="60" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>-PC</Computer>
<Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
</System>
<EventData>
<Data Name="Group">0</Data>
<Data Name="Number">1</Data>
<Data Name="IdleStateCount">1</Data>
<Data Name="PerfStateCount">2</Data>
<Data Name="ThrottleStateCount">0</Data>
<ComplexData Name="IdleState">01</ComplexData>
<ComplexData Name="PerfState">5A090000640000003C06000042000000</ComplexData>
</EventData>
</Event>



What does it mean? Is my computer only utilizing three of my four processors? Also just before the blue screen occurs the computer makes a sound like its working hard then the sound stops dead. Then starts again. It's like its trying to work but keeps stopping every 4 or 5 seconds and then tries again then crash?

[Alan Phipps]

It is interesting that the point of failure has moved on in the game as that probably indicates a more fundamental underlying issue than just a simple single driver or piece of code.

I see that some other users with that exact kernel power critical error addressed it by taking overclocking off their cpu (which you don't appear to use), others by improving their psu's stability under high demand, and yet others by removing multiple drivers that were in active conflict with each other (which I think we have already addressed). Essentially this failure appears to be a symptom of a stressed cpu (for example high temp or low voltage leading to cpu core errors) where the cause may lie in hardware issues that are exposed by cpu-heavy software or conflicting drivers highly-stressing the core(s).

I would suggest running a stress test tool on your cpu such as Prime95 (Google it). It may expose the type of stressor or the weak core (if there is one).

That all said you will probably need additional advice from somebody a bit more system-tech savvy than myself. I shall alert CBJ to this development.

[CBJ]

I would agree with Alan's assessment that it's starting to sound like a PSU issue. Unfortunately unless you happen to have the right equipment and understanding of how to test it, this can be one of the hardest hardware issues to identify and track down. With a new PC you'd be best off having it dealt with under warranty, but with an older one it's sometimes just worth replacing the PSU anyway if you can, because it's one of the few components that could physically damage other hardware if it does turn out to be failing.

I should point out that I don't make a habit of recommending someone replace hardware to get a game working. If you don't feel it's something you want, or are able, to do, then we can keep looking into other possibilities. Stressing the PC using tools such as Prime95 might help confirm and/or narrow down the problem, for example, but there's no guarantee it will trigger the error, or that it will get us closer to identifying the cause even if it does.

[illusive_pimpernel]

I would agree with Alan's assessment that it's starting to sound like a PSU issue. Unfortunately unless you happen to have the right equipment and understanding of how to test it, this can be one of the hardest hardware issues to identify and track down. With a new PC you'd be best off having it dealt with under warranty, but with an older one it's sometimes just worth replacing the PSU anyway if you can, because it's one of the few components that could physically damage other hardware if it does turn out to be failing.

I should point out that I don't make a habit of recommending someone replace hardware to get a game working. If you don't feel it's something you want, or are able, to do, then we can keep looking into other possibilities. Stressing the PC using tools such as Prime95 might help confirm and/or narrow down the problem, for example, but there's no guarantee it will trigger the error, or that it will get us closer to identifying the cause even if it does.

Thanks for your replies. For your information the processor is around 50-55c when idle and around 60-65c when stressed however it can reach 70c sometimes. Also this doesn't happen with any other game. I can play civ 5 with 20 civs, 40 city states and a huge map, that means a very stressed cpu for non civ fans. I can play rome 2 with thousands of men on the battlefield. Indeed my cpu reaches higher temperatures playing civ 5 than it does rebirth! So I cannot accept that it's simply a PSU issue because rebirth is the only game it happens to. As I said before iv'e never ever experienced a blue screen or any other serious crash on this rig playing any other game, ever. No it must be rebirth.

Maybe it's got something to do with the fact that rebirth is utilizing four cores and because iv'e got the old cpu architecture (not an I-series) it simply can't exchange the threads properly? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the 64bit exe has just been rolled out? If it were the psu it would happen on other cpu stressful games but it simply doesn't.

I will run the stress test tool that you guys recommended but there must be some underlying problem either with rebirth or with one of the hardware that rebirth is utilizing.

[CBJ]

Once again, the game cannot be the direct cause of a bluescreen error. These are only generated by driver-level software and the system kernel, either crashing themselves or responding to hardware faults. The error messages you are reporting and saying correspond directly to the time of the crash point pretty strongly to the latter.

I should also point out that the PSU is hardware that the game is utilising; the fact that some other game doesn't trigger the problem is neither here nor there. It's not just the CPU that draws power; the graphics card may actually draw more than the CPU, and other parts of your system will contribute too, and it is the combination of all these at any given time that will determine the total power draw and whether or not your PSU is able to handle it.

The CPU architecture is not relevant to your current problem. The fact that it is below the minimum requirements for the game may affect performance, and will certainly make it work hard and draw a lot of power, but it will no in and of itself be the cause of the errors.

[illusive_pimpernel]

I didn't say it was the direct cause. I inferred that it may be the indirect cause. I base that on the fact no other other cpu intensive game has caused such an kernel-processor-power error. It's not a case that some other game doesn't cause the same error, it's a case of no other game causing such an error. In any case such points are immaterial. Let's not have a philosophical discussion about whether the glass is half full or half empty.

So what should I do? Should I replace the psu? You said in a previous post that there may be other options. Iv already turned down the graphics options to 'low' or 'off'. is there anything else I could do which would result in less power being utilized or is that not the problem.

Is it just a case of waiting until rebirth is further optimized so that it will use less overall power?

Thanks CBJ and Alan.

[CBJ]

I agree that we shouldn't labour the point about causes, but I wanted to make sure there were no misconceptions. On the same basis I should also point out that the counterpoint to no other game causing this problem for you, we also have the situation that this game doesn't cause that problem for other people. So as you say, let's stick to the topic of things that might solve your specific problem.

In your position I would certainly consider replacing the PSU, but only if you were comfortable spending the money on something that is not 100% certain to solve the problem. I would also take into consideration the age of your current PC, and think about whether it is worth replacing one part if you have plans to replace the whole thing at some point.

Other options at this stage are limited to trying to narrow down and confirm the cause of the error a bit further; things like seeing whether any other error log messages come up, checking temperatures of both CPU and GPU around the time of any future crashes, and trying to identify any commonality between occasions when it happens in-game.

Regarding optimisation, this could actually have the opposite effect. A lot of optimisation work in a modern game is about removing bottlenecks in one thread, allowing the other threads to spend less time waiting for it. The result is often a higher framerate, which not only makes the graphics card work harder, but can also mean fewer CPU cores idle at any given time. It's very unlikely that anything we can do with the game will solve your problem.

[Alan Phipps]

For what it is worth, this is what *I* would personally be doing in your shoes before changing any hardware:

1. Running a cpu stress test such as Prime95 to see if my cpu is unstable under stress.
2. Running the Win7 RAM check to see if there is any bad or intermittent RAM and perhaps augmenting this with an external tool such as Memtest.
3. Running the MSDOS command 'chkdsk' to test each of my harddrives involved with the game, saves, or pagefile.
4. Monitoring all temperatures, voltages and fanspeeds while playing and hoping to catch a failure event in the recordings.
5. Making sure that I had the very latest approved (non-beta) drivers for all devices and peripherals on my system.
6. Minimising all unnecessary applications and services while playing, perhaps using a tool such as GameBooster to help in the selections.

[illusive_pimpernel]

I agree that we shouldn't labour the point about causes, but I wanted to make sure there were no misconceptions. On the same basis I should also point out that the counterpoint to no other game causing this problem for you, we also have the situation that this game doesn't cause that problem for other people. So as you say, let's stick to the topic of things that might solve your specific problem.

In your position I would certainly consider replacing the PSU, but only if you were comfortable spending the money on something that is not 100% certain to solve the problem. I would also take into consideration the age of your current PC, and think about whether it is worth replacing one part if you have plans to replace the whole thing at some point.

Other options at this stage are limited to trying to narrow down and confirm the cause of the error a bit further; things like seeing whether any other error log messages come up, checking temperatures of both CPU and GPU around the time of any future crashes, and trying to identify any commonality between occasions when it happens in-game.

Regarding optimisation, this could actually have the opposite effect. A lot of optimisation work in a modern game is about removing bottlenecks in one thread, allowing the other threads to spend less time waiting for it. The result is often a higher framerate, which not only makes the graphics card work harder, but can also mean fewer CPU cores idle at any given time. It's very unlikely that anything we can do with the game will solve your problem.

Cant you use the technical data I provided in the bluescreen to ascertain the problem. Each one of the four numbers contained in the technical information represents a piece of hardware or application right? The 'stop code' if im not mistaken:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/featur ... _explained

All I need is someone computer savy (like you cbj) to decipher what the numbers actually mean. Could you help me with that? Or is deciphering what the bluescreen numbers mean pointless?

[illusive_pimpernel]

I agree that we shouldn't labour the point about causes, but I wanted to make sure there were no misconceptions. On the same basis I should also point out that the counterpoint to no other game causing this problem for you, we also have the situation that this game doesn't cause that problem for other people. So as you say, let's stick to the topic of things that might solve your specific problem.

In your position I would certainly consider replacing the PSU, but only if you were comfortable spending the money on something that is not 100% certain to solve the problem. I would also take into consideration the age of your current PC, and think about whether it is worth replacing one part if you have plans to replace the whole thing at some point.

Other options at this stage are limited to trying to narrow down and confirm the cause of the error a bit further; things like seeing whether any other error log messages come up, checking temperatures of both CPU and GPU around the time of any future crashes, and trying to identify any commonality between occasions when it happens in-game.

Regarding optimisation, this could actually have the opposite effect. A lot of optimisation work in a modern game is about removing bottlenecks in one thread, allowing the other threads to spend less time waiting for it. The result is often a higher framerate, which not only makes the graphics card work harder, but can also mean fewer CPU cores idle at any given time. It's very unlikely that anything we can do with the game will solve your problem.

These numbers:

Technical information:

*** Stop: 0x000000F4 (0x0000000000000003, 0xFFFFFA8007E24B30, 0xFFFFFA8007E24E10, 0xFFFFF8000033D6270)

What do these number mean?

[CBJ]

I'm afraid I can't help much with the error information; that's more Microsoft's domain. From what I can find, stop code 0x000000F4 apparently translates to "A process or thread crucial to system operation has unexpectedly exited or been terminated" but what exactly that means in practical terms is going to be hard for anyone but Microsoft to decipher. The number after it apparently tells you that it was a process rather than a thread, and the remaining numbers are supposed to tell you more about it, but I have no way of translating them into something meaningful.

[Lander1979]

I would get onto microsoft's tech support and see what they have to say about it.

[illusive_pimpernel]

So should I buy a modular or non modular psu. What's the difference? Also should I try upgrading the motherboard?

[Alan Phipps]

I can only direct you to what checks I would do first before considering changing any hardware (6 posts up). If you reuse possibly faulty parts and devices in a different system, you may just transfer the problems.

Also I would try getting Microsoft's and/or your system manufacturer's tech sp advice about the issue before committing to any expenditure that might not even solve the issue. Changing mobo is not for the faint-hearted and is akin in complexity and equipping to buying a new self-build system.

As to which PSU to get next (should you wish to), that will also depend upon your system and case layout and its demands and so it is best to see what your system manufacturer recommends. If the type and size is not that critical then read psu hardware reviews. Ask 10 people on here for recommendations and you might get 10 different answers.

Modular PSUs have removable cables so you can remove any unnecessary case clutter of unused cabling. That also introduces small increases in resistance due to the additional PSU case connectors that may also risk additional connectivity issues.

Standard PSUs have fixed cabling with a fixed (generous) number of type cables and connectors as standard, which can mean redundant cabling that gets untidy in the case and lies in the way of cooling airflow.

Further hardware pro and con debate should be in the Off Topic forum please (where you have such a thread already).

[Lord Crc]

If you haven't, download MemTest86+, stick it on a usb stick (they have an auto installer for making a bootable USB stick[1]), boot from usb stick and run the tests over night.

Just nice to rule out obvious memory errors before changing components "blindfolded".

[1]: http://www.memtest.org/#downiso

[illusive_pimpernel]

I can only direct you to what checks I would do first before considering changing any hardware (6 posts up). If you reuse possibly faulty parts and devices in a different system, you may just transfer the problems.

Also I would try getting Microsoft's and/or your system manufacturer's tech sp advice about the issue before committing to any expenditure that might not even solve the issue. Changing mobo is not for the faint-hearted and is akin in complexity and equipping to buying a new self-build system.

As to which PSU to get next (should you wish to), that will also depend upon your system and case layout and its demands and so it is best to see what your system manufacturer recommends. If the type and size is not that critical then read psu hardware reviews. Ask 10 people on here for recommendations and you might get 10 different answers.

Modular PSUs have removable cables so you can remove any unnecessary case clutter of unused cabling. That also introduces small increases in resistance due to the additional PSU case connectors that may also risk additional connectivity issues.

Standard PSUs have fixed cabling with a fixed (generous) number of type cables and connectors as standard, which can mean redundant cabling that gets untidy in the case and lies in the way of cooling airflow.

Further hardware pro and con debate should be in the Off Topic forum please (where you have such a thread already).

Well iv already bought the motherboard and it's on it's way, so there's no going back there. You state it's a complicated issue but how so, I thought it was a simple matter of replacing it and installing the operating system fresh.

And I ran memtest as well as prime 95 and there were no problems presented in either application.

[Alan Phipps]

Well if the new mobo is a different shape or size and should need a different mounting system (and hopefully not a new case), maybe even a different cpu/cooler configuration to what you have now, perhaps different RAM modules to those you have now, a new psu maybe, perhaps you want to upgrade your graphics card, different cooling fan layouts, different connection layouts, perhaps a different BIOS, ... you get the drift.

You might be lucky and it all slots together with what you have now but you will need to reactivate your OS and recheck all your drivers (remember that Win7 supply/support from Microsoft is ending soon). Then you still need to hope that none of your reused devices have brought problems across.

As I said, I hope it all works out for you, but it is not always trivial to change a mobo.

I think this thread can probably lapse anyway since you are changing so much hardware. Feel free to start a new one with your new rig if you still have game issues.