UK - Green Goddess

[Rapier]

Green Goddesses? I thought all the moderators were blokes






Oh, you mean the firetrucks. No, ain't seen any.

On the issue of pay, I don't think the danger argument stands up. Long distance lorry driving is 'more dangerous' (in terms of fatalities per 100 workers per year) but is much worse paid. What I think is a reasonable demand is that they are now highly skilled workes on a pay structure that matches their pay to that of (unskilled) manual workers and that this should change. The Government don't appear to be listening which leaves the firemen with very few options.

On another note, IIRC, the Prime ministers pay is only about £140K per year. The way some polititians make loads of money is by writing for newspapers and advising external companies in their area of expertiese. companies

[Jericho]

On the issue of pay, I don't think the danger argument stands up. Long distance lorry driving is 'more dangerous' (in terms of fatalities per 100 workers per year) but is much worse paid.

Yeah, but there are considerable more lorry drivers then firemen, so naturally there are going to be more deaths.

You could argue that working in a shop is more dangerous as so many people have heart attacks or get killed going to and from work, per 100 workers per year.

If there was only one car in the world and it crashed, killing the driver, then cars are 100% deadly. If there are 2 cars in the world, and 1 crashes killing the driver, then cars are 50% deadly.

I have no idea how many fireman there are in the country, and have no idea how many of them die.

Not trying to start a flame or anything. Just my tupence worth.

[Rapier]

I think you misunderstand what I meant by the figures. Statistically, a lorry driver is more likely to die whilst doing his job than a fireman is. This doesn't mean that driving a lorry is more dangerous than being a fireman, it could just be that firemen are more careful. It's the high level of training and the equipment thay use than keeps the firemen 'safe', and it's these skills that deserve more pay.

[pjknibbs]

Yeah, but there are considerable more lorry drivers then firemen, so naturally there are going to be more deaths.

Yeah, but he DID say "per 100 workers per year". Of course, part of this would be down to the fact that lorry drivers drive long distances (well, duh) and road travel of ANY kind carries a fatality rate of several thousand people per year.

[Al]

oh dear, RIGHT NO FLAMES PLEASE COS THIS COULD GET POLITICAL,

England is going through a 48 hour FireStrike, not good enough pay.

Britian is going through a fire strike. I know us people north of the border aren't many in numbers but this affects all of us.

Al

[Al]

and as to the death rate of truck drivers. If you have witnessed the saftey gaps (or severe lack of them) left by lorries on the motorways then it doesn't come as a surprise that a large percentage of serious/fatal accidents on the motorways involve lorries, and the subsequent relatively high death rate of drivers. No-one to blame but their own dangerous driving styles.

Sorry to deviate from the topic but this really is something that annoys the hell out of me.

Al

[Zabre]

And according to the Beeb:-

Strathclyde in Scotland received more than 230 hoax calls in the first few hours!!!!!!

People who do things like this make me sick

[Deleted User]

I just don't see why the firefighters don't let the army use the fire trucks in stead of those Green Godesses. I'm sure that the army could learn how to use them very quickly, and it would really help to save lives. I agree that they need a pay rise but they could at least let the army use their equipment.

[Al]

thats something that has been bugging me. The firemen dont own the equipment and hence dont have any right to stop the army using it. Of the things the head firebrigade folk have been consistently stating is that the green goddesses are outdated etc. If someone dies as a direct result of the lack of piece of specialist equipment which the firebrigade have prevented the army getting access to, should the person/people in charge be charged with manslaughter?

dont get me wrong I do sympathise with the firemen but I dont agree with the way they are going about blackmailing the country. Be it on their own heads......

Al

[Eagle]

I just don't see why the firefighters don't let the army use the fire trucks in stead of those Green Godesses....

Quite simply, training. It takes months of specialist traing to be able to operate a modern fire appliance effectively. The UK's Armed Forces (or is that Englands'? ) do not have the time for that...they have far more important things to do. Like their job......

[Al]

But things like the pneumatic cutters (jaws of life?) and long ladders that they use do not require specialist training but they are still preventing the army from using them. That is simply endangering more lives and cannot be condoned.

Al

[Eagle]

I'm sure the Armed Forces would take them if they really needed them! After all, they do belong to the Government.

[Al]

probably but the point is that the firebrigade lose nothing by allowing access to these things and are only harming the public opinion.

Al

[Eagle]

Very true. However, I don't think they are stopping equipment being taken. UKAF's just haven't, err.....'asked' for it....yet!

[SteveMill]

I just don't see why the firefighters don't let the army use the fire trucks in stead of those Green Godesses....

Quite simply, training. It takes months of specialist traing to be able to operate a modern fire appliance effectively. The UK's Armed Forces (or is that Englands'? ) do not have the time for that...they have far more important things to do. Like their job......

Excellent point - if being a fireman is easy enough to pick up after a few weeks training they would not be asking for more money.

[Gandalf The White]

It does have to be said though, the armed forces have baled the country out because if it wasn't for them at this time, then we would really be in a bad situation.

I doubt I will be popular for saying this, but my way of thinking is, there is plenty of unemployed people out there who haven't or don't get half the money that most of these jobs pay. Whether it be fireman, train drivers and they are really winding me up and other such folk. If the strikes were over health and safety and working to many hours to be safe, then I might think more in their favor because obviously, doing these sorts of jobs, you need to be alert.

[Rapier]

I'm sure the firemen wouldn't go on strike if they thought that there was no-one to take their place. I get the impression that, although it's not been said, there are plans to enable a very rapid re-start of a full fire service if it was needed.

[Firebird]

I'm sure the Armed Forces would take them if they really needed them! After all, they do belong to the Government.

They belong to the County Council, You and I, We pay our taxes local and national which funds central and local services, which includes the Fire Service.

The Government dont actually own anything, they simply have things in safe keeping for us.

Semantics I know.....

[Firebird]

You do know there only after £8.50 an hour....

40% sounds a lot except when its 40% of zip......

I dont think there being unreasonable, but then of course my house isn't burning down... snifff sniffff..... honey whats that smell of burnigs.....Byeeeeee

[Brianetta]

...but they are still preventing the army from using them. That is simply endangering more lives and cannot be condoned.

Al

They aren't. The picket lines are to prevent any errant firefighters using the appliances. The firefighters *are* helping with nearby fires, but on foot (ie as civilians).

The government is busy deciding whether to train the armed forces to use modern appliances, but as the armed forces were brought in in a hurry, and they're very familiar with their own kit, they are using that. Even though a green goddess is generally about 50 years old with a top speed of 30mph.