The shipsize decreases when inside ?.

[MagixJonsn]

There is a real Skunk in which you are sitting, not just a floating empty in space with a cockpit attached.

Is that so? Then please explain me this: when the player moves out of the cockpit and then returns to the cockpit it looks like, as if he is teleported/spawned to complete different location. It's like the the back of the ship doesn't even exist on the Skunk, but on a separate instance in the gameworld. The short graphics/loading issue hints this - especially visible when returning to the cockpit area. We don't even have a complete ship...

Looki here: http://youtu.be/uN3y3XiazHs?t=6m35s

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

There is a real Skunk in which you are sitting, not just a floating empty in space with a cockpit attached.

Is that so? Then please explain me this: when the player moves out of the cockpit and then returns to the cockpit it looks like, as if he is teleported/spawned to complete different location. It's like the the back of the ship doesn't even exist on the Skunk, but on a separate instance in the gameworld. The short graphics/loading issue hints this - especially visible when returning to the cockpit area. We don't even have a complete ship...

Looki here: http://youtu.be/uN3y3XiazHs?t=6m35s

If Skunk wasn´t there... Then it would ignore colisions & laser damage.
And you can see the Skunk while using drones, and there is no loading happening when switching to drone. That means that Skunk is loaded all time. Not only when leaving it.

[MagixJonsn]

The hull is there and the cockpit area is there. No doubt in that.

The other interiors of the ship are not there. And when the Skunk docks on a station, a new scene is loaded where it looks like you are just going out of the of the Skunk, but which is not the real Skunk anymore.

Sorry, but here's too much fakery going on, which is very disappointing given that this feature was praised.

[CutterJohn1]

That what YOU think, a lot of people really like for a lot of reason 3rd person view...

According to this poll it's not exactly a "lot" in proportional terms..

That poll is asking "What do you like", not "what do you always want to be stuck in".

Many of the comments say they also appreciate 3rd person views at times, and cockpitless 1st person(which isn't even an option). None of those polls asking for cockpits in X3 ever asked to disable the other view modes.

Having two different HUD modes, one for inside the cockpit and one for external view, is precisely the scenario that my linked post was about. It must be so nice to be able to say how easy it would be to do something without actually having to follow that statement through.

Except you could have used that hud inso many more places.

- You could have used that HUD in first person walking mode. As it stands, it seems we will be completely cut off, the future apparently having never heard of cell phones.

- You could have used that HUD while piloting the drones. Seriously? Zero hud at all? I'm wearing a virtual imaging device.... And having to exit out of there in order to access menus or even see the status of the ship will be annoying.

- You could haves used that HUD for cockpitless 1st person and 3rd person perspectives. No, perhaps they aren't the most popular anymore with this immersion fad going on, but many people do appreciate them.

- Modders could have used that HUD to more easily enable piloting more ships, for those that don't care all that much for the extra work that goes into cockpits.


It seems to me you've sacrificed an awful lot of player choice to accommodate this desire for a fancy cockpit. Was it worth the losing all those features just to allow people to swivel in their chair to see a screen?

[Nanook]

That what YOU think, a lot of people really like for a lot of reason 3rd person view...

According to this poll it's not exactly a "lot" in proportional terms..

That poll is asking "What do you like", not "what do you always want to be stuck in".

Many of the comments say they also appreciate 3rd person views at times, and cockpitless 1st person(which isn't even an option). None of those polls asking for cockpits in X3 ever asked to disable the other view modes....

None of the X games have had a third person HUD view. While you could still manipulate the ship in camera view, none of the HUD information was available. I don't doubt that Rebirth will have some form of outside view to admire your ship, but asking for two different HUD's is a different thing altogether, as CBJ has tried to explain. As for "cockpitless 1st person", we could switch the HUD/cockpit off in past games using Shift-h, so it wouldn't surprise me to see that in Rebirth, too, since it doesn't require a different HUD.

[RichardDaborn]

EDIT: no 3rd person view on release is confirmed

That's really weak by EGOSOFT to remove the 3rd person viewoption from the game,
and i'd love to hear a valid excuse why this decision was made.

No option for cameraangles = no movies no nothing...

Seriously EGOSOFT, why did you remove the options for varying cameras ?.

I'm with Dreez on this. the external camera views were almost essential viewing for me in the older games. I could lock onto a distant target in a battle say and enjoy watching it from almost a movie angle perspective. Especially with a game that's this slow.

I'm not overly hot on these camera drone views either with the fuzzy display and crappy hud.

Some aspects of this game sound amazing, some make me think WTF?

And how are fans of this game going to be able to get glorious screenshots? Lean out of the airlock with a polaroid?

[CutterJohn1]

None of the X games have had a third person HUD view. While you could still manipulate the ship in camera view, none of the HUD information was available. I don't doubt that Rebirth will have some form of outside view to admire your ship, but asking for two different HUD's is a different thing altogether, as CBJ has tried to explain. As for "cockpitless 1st person", we could switch the HUD/cockpit off in past games using Shift-h, so it wouldn't surprise me to see that in Rebirth, too, since it doesn't require a different HUD.

Err.. Can you explain what I'm seeing here then?

The only feature that didn't show up in third was the aiming reticle. I could still use the map, still use the console, still see the MFDs, everything. Targeting brackets also didn't show up in the cinematic third person views, but all the personal ship hud stuff remained, and as with third, you could use the maps/console, etc.

If they ever make new ships they're going to have to make new huds anyway, and I'm quite sure the ability to access menus and whatnot from places other than the cockpit seat view will be a highly requested feature.

[RichardDaborn]

That what YOU think, a lot of people really like for a lot of reason 3rd person view...

According to this poll it's not exactly a "lot" in proportional terms.

...this is not cause their is a feature that can brake your immersion that you are forced to use it, no one will force you to using it, i don't see why people that like it can't have it cause people that can simply don't use it don't want it...

And once again we see the fallacy that an optional feature has no effect on people who don't want to use it. See this post (amongst others) for the explanation.

For me CBJ its watching all the beautiful player controlled views of distance ships and objects. Del button to scroll views, zoom in and out. Now it sems all we got is some silly drone with a fuzzy picture feed and an obtrusive hud. Haven't these super advanced drones heard of HD transmissions yet?

[Nibel]

That what YOU think, a lot of people really like for a lot of reason 3rd person view...

According to this poll it's not exactly a "lot" in proportional terms.

question is not clear and hardly can apply to X games.
in X games i like both.
with first i shoot and do things with third i look around and watch how armada vs armada fight and how my ship turrets kill things.
i NEVER play race game (exmpl:NFS) in first person,ONLY third.
in games like Fallout 3 i play in first (because third is just horrible),np i'd play in third if it were playable,but it's not
shooter i play ONLY in first...well,C.O. tells because it's simpler.

[Ravenhurst]

There is a real Skunk in which you are sitting, not just a floating empty in space with a cockpit attached.

Is that so? Then please explain me this: when the player moves out of the cockpit and then returns to the cockpit it looks like, as if he is teleported/spawned to complete different location. It's like the the back of the ship doesn't even exist on the Skunk, but on a separate instance in the gameworld. The short graphics/loading issue hints this - especially visible when returning to the cockpit area. We don't even have a complete ship...

Looki here: http://youtu.be/uN3y3XiazHs?t=6m35s

a magic technique called "video cut"? maybe?

[jasonbarron]

This is not an issue to make it optional or not, this is just a button that we can press or not

A button to show an external view wouldn't fall into this category, no, but that's not what the OP was asking for.

There isn't that much important information in "cockpit" view that couldn't be relayed to an outside view.
All you need is shield, hull, speed, weaponpower, amo... all those are easily put on HUD.

Having two different HUD modes, one for inside the cockpit and one for external view, is precisely the scenario that my linked post was about. It must be so nice to be able to say how easy it would be to do something without actually having to follow that statement through.

+1 to that, CBJ.

Love the ship design, btw. Can't wait to put that baby through it's paces. I think the use of drones with the VR goggles is brilliant, looks like a LOT of fun. Good luck with the final weeks of development and remember: Red Bull isn't just for breakfast anymore!

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

[OT]

Good luck with the final weeks of development and remember: Red Bull isn't just for breakfast anymore!

Ditto... But tip Red Bull down the pan, Iron Bru is really what you want [/OT]

[stilgarpl]

The scale you see outside of your cockpit and what is inside is in exactly the same scalesceme. There is a real Skunk in which you are sitting, not just a floating empty in space with a cockpit attached.
Afaik the FOV is at 75° so its somewhat like you can see with your own eyes. You will probably not be able to change it, because you wouldnt be able to read the displays.

I thought CBJ once said (in a thread about 3D) that FOV changes if you have wider screens (for example, 3 screens in nvidia surround/amd eyefinity). Isn't it true?
Even if we can't change FOV, I hope it's simply calculated from screen's aspect ratio - not everyone has 16:9,16:10 or 4:3 (or 5:4...).

[Rabiator der II.]

The scale you see outside of your cockpit and what is inside is in exactly the same scalesceme. There is a real Skunk in which you are sitting, not just a floating empty in space with a cockpit attached.
Afaik the FOV is at 75° so its somewhat like you can see with your own eyes. You will probably not be able to change it, because you wouldnt be able to read the displays.

I thought CBJ once said (in a thread about 3D) that FOV changes if you have wider screens (for example, 3 screens in nvidia surround/amd eyefinity). Isn't it true?
Even if we can't change FOV, I hope it's simply calculated from screen's aspect ratio - not everyone has 16:9,16:10 or 4:3 (or 5:4...).

Hmm...
To make sure everyone can see the displays, regardless of screen aspect ratio, you would need TWO (minimum) FOVs, horizontal and vertical. The image can then be scaled to show the minimum FOV in the direction where the limit is reached first.

A 5:4 screen (1280x1024) would show the horizontal minimum FOV, with some more cockpit floor and ceiling than on others.

A 21:9 screen would show the vertical minimum FOV, possibly with a bit of fisheye effect in the horizontal.

[stilgarpl]

A 5:4 screen (1280x1024) would show the horizontal minimum FOV, with some more cockpit floor and ceiling than on others.

A 21:9 screen would show the vertical minimum FOV, possibly with a bit of fisheye effect in the horizontal.

You are right!

And I'm most interested in 48:9

Also, I hope those targetting circles are drawn in 3D and not on the screen

[MagixJonsn]

There is a real Skunk in which you are sitting, not just a floating empty in space with a cockpit attached.

Is that so? Then please explain me this: when the player moves out of the cockpit and then returns to the cockpit it looks like, as if he is teleported/spawned to complete different location. It's like the the back of the ship doesn't even exist on the Skunk, but on a separate instance in the gameworld. The short graphics/loading issue hints this - especially visible when returning to the cockpit area. We don't even have a complete ship...

Looki here: http://youtu.be/uN3y3XiazHs?t=6m35s

a magic technique called "video cut"? maybe?

It's definitely NOT a video cut. Look at the timer on the top. The player is doing a mission where he got this timer on top which continues smoothly throughout this action!

And if you still don't believe, just watch any other videos where the player moves from the so called "back"-interior to the front cabin. This graphic issue happens every time and is a strong indicator that teleporting or loading takes place. Which proves the ship only consists of the hull and the front cabin, but not of the back-interiors. The "back-interiors" are simply a new level outside the ship.

[Bobucles]

It's definitely NOT a video cut. Look at the timer on the top. The player is doing a mission where he got this timer on top which continues smoothly throughout this action!

Ooh, nice catch. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that switching between walk mode and flight mode would require some sekret loading process.

While the Skunk's design may be seamless in full, there is no point in loading any bits that you can not see or use. I'm sure noclip mode will reveal only the cabin and the player's immediate surroundings when in flight, just as the cockpit would have no hud or working parts while outside the ship. It's not necessarily a copout, as much as it is about culling assets wherever possible. That's an important thing to keep any game's performance high.

[CBJ]

The "back-interiors" are simply a new level outside the ship.

Incorrect. Bobucles is closer to the truth. No, the interiors don't exist when you're not in them, because it would be ridiculous keeping all that geometry in memory when you don't need it, but when you enter them you are not entering a "new level" and it's not "outside the ship". When an interior exists it exists in the same "space" as the rest of the game, and it is located inside the object it's an interior for.

Someone asked earlier whether it is possible to "look out of the window" from a station interior, which is essentially the same question. Well, the answer is yes, you can, assuming that is that there's a window to look out of!

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Of course you can look outside of windows while being in walking mode:

You can in fact even land on these beasts and get out of your playership to meet NPCs while watching the large ship move around in space FROM the deck of the ship!

[DaddyMonster]

@CBJ: If you know, are in the mood to answer questions (:-)) and it's not a state secret:

- Can you exit the ship in first person while undocked?
- The 'holding effect' with capital ships - does that include a modicum of gravity or are you just held still relative of the larger vessel?