Collecting ideas: multi-player in games like X3

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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supakillaii
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Post by supakillaii »

It'd be cool if (it comes, it would be cool if) you could make teams... let's say 10 player MAX. And you'd get a choise between Carrier Style and Destroyer style.

Carrier Style: 1 Carrier with few guns, few small ships (let's say M4's or M5's) and 1 pilots the M1, some ppl arm the M1 cannons and the rest just fly around

Destroyer Style: Same as Carrier except M2 would be more heavily armed and could host a max of 3 ships (M5's) and when enemies (other players, Kha'ak or Xenon) appear, the 3 ships launch off and players arm the guns and pilot just tries to survive
Jingleheimer
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Post by Jingleheimer »

I like the plug 'n play idea, but I have to agree the concerns on keeping it updated are warranted. If it's co-op oriented, then the chances of your empire being destroyed are minimal (small posibility by pirates, xenon, or khaak). An idea to preserve people's progress , while admittedly less immersive, would be to make a person's stations and ships indestructable while they're not logged in. AI control could be another possibility; although I'm not fond of the idea of someone else controlling my empire except maybe my ships if the AI is good enough.

Synchronizing saves shouldn't be too difficult in theory, although it would require a server (official or unofficial) to keep things straight in an efficient manner. Furthermore, there would probably need to be more of a bulletin board style of communication between players since most of the time not everyone will be logged in at one moment.

I'm intrigued by the idea of trading with other people through a universal hub of sorts in another sector. I like it because it supports a huge aspect of X3, and not many other ideas do to a large extent. In other words, most ideas I've read so far focus mainly on combat. However, one problem I see is keeping things balanced. Perhaps it's my lack of understanding, but I sense a potential for exploitation. Also, there would need to be a way to track cheats, as currently there isn't any way that I'm ware of to indicate whether a ware was scripted in or not. I guess that could probably done with a blanket ban on all scripts while in multiplayer mode.

The only original idea I could add would be to have races, kind of like in Tachyon (I think it was this game). Ironically there are racing ships in X3, but no races! I'm not much of a racing fan, but I could see this as being potentially fun. It could even be somewhat of an obstacle course around asteroids and such.
Last edited by Jingleheimer on Fri, 7. Dec 07, 22:31, edited 1 time in total.
g04tn4d0
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Post by g04tn4d0 »

I'm not really a fan of MMO-only stuff like Eve Online. I don't like to pay a monthly fee to play a game that will, one day, be shut down and have all my hard work lost forever.

Freelancer did it best, in my opinion, by having a simple stand-alone server. Players logged into the server from their browsers. Player information was kept on each individual stand-alone. I think that having a peer-to-peer relationship could also work, like many other games use so that the player's can use their single-player data in a multiplayer game.
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humility925
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Post by humility925 »

This can be something like Spore, like player build a station, said enemies player destory station while normal Player's station is not destoryed in his game, only A.I can destory normal player's Station. I dont know, that's ways yoiu dont lose your hard work while mean and evil player can get awary. I'm not a fan online due to very limited online in my hometown.
parameter
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SP/MP options

Post by parameter »

Reader81 wrote:This can be something like Spore, like player build a station, said enemies player destory station while normal Player's station is not destoryed in his game, only A.I can destory normal player's Station. I dont know, that's ways yoiu dont lose your hard work while mean and evil player can get awary. I'm not a fan online due to very limited online in my hometown.
I agree with you. I have too many problems with our local landline. I still think we should have the option to single play but when we want to try MP we log onto a server.. Check out the Call of Duty, Battlefield 42 and Fkmod.com sites to see what I am getting at. I used to run a Ghost Recon and a Rainbow6 server. Not at home! You will need to consider, Bernd, the use of Punkbuster.com to filter idiots and spammers, and maybe Gameranger.com for battlenet talk. The latter is certainly Mac and PC friendly.
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reldred
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Post by reldred »

I have difficulty trying to imagine how an X game would work with multiplayer, in a traditional sense.

What I would like to see is local area network support for players joining and playing co-operatively (Think Two-player mode in old-school games like Tyrian. It's competitive to a degree, but still quite co-operative), whether that's doing trading while you escort them (the 'server' as such would control the all-important point of SETA), manning a turret (Get a bunch of likeminded friends together and do some big battles with your mates operating turrets and managing weapon loadouts, monitoring activity on sector map, etc.

It would also allow people with more money than good sense to setup some interesting multi-monitor configurations (Who here can't say that they haven't wanted to set up a cockpit/flight-stick/multi-monitor setup for X3 like the big flight sim setups?).

I just can't really see multiplayer working without ditching SETA. SETA would have to be handled in a co-operative fashion, which makes online play rather difficult.

There are the usual deathmatch modes, but those really don't do the legacy the X games have made any justice. There are plenty of shooters out there for people interested only in frags.

Now, ofcourse, you could ditch SETA altogether and do Freelancer style 'cruise' engines or trade-lanes for making up for the long travel times. But then it's more the sequal Freelancer players always wanted, rather than an X game.

Bah, I'll play whatever Egosoft throws at me, it generally tends to be quite good and quite deep in comparison to the more arcade feeling games in the genre.
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Ikaruga
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Post by Ikaruga »

I don't knnow if the idea has been submitted before, but I would like a multiplayer mode "a la Diablo II" :

An open mode where you have your character stored on your PC (with his ships, his stations, etc...) , you can play it offline alone, or in multiplayer on a server you created or someone created.
More practical, but there will be a lot of cheating.

A closed mode where your character is stored on a server, you can't play it offline, so fewer cheaters.
If brute force doesn't solve your problems, then you aren't using enough
daedalao
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Post by daedalao »

The problem with SETA is that it's just time compression. Having an additional extension available, such as the cruise engine from freelancer... you can't turn near as well, and your speed increases. And it diverts all power to engines so you can't use it in combat.

Also, I think that just having the ability to have other players in your universe makes the most sense. Player can create their own gameplay styles (dogfighting, etc) Taking the 4X out of an X game is just about r*******.
GR1M_REAPER
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Post by GR1M_REAPER »

I like the co-op idea of keeping the single player X universe intact. It might work something like Hardwar (very old game). Being able to have real people as your gun crews would be v.cool. The players should be able to join a company/partner ship with a shared account or stike out on there own. Quitting the company should also be possible.
An option to run a home server (no GUI) for a few friends to connect to a real time enviroment is a must. SETA should be included if only 1 user is online or if all users agree.
Elucca
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Post by Elucca »

Freelancer-style, except players can choose to play co op- they can belong to the same faction as another player. They have individual accounts and an overall account.

I think for any multiplayer implementation you would have to tone down the players advantage over the AI (less effective strafe drives) and of course death needs to be less...final.
Exactly. Although, in Freelancer you didn't have possessions besides the ship you were flying. They'd need to come up with something so that someone else wouldn't just blow up your stuff while you were offline.

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RavenIII
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Post by RavenIII »

I notice GR1M_REAPER mentioned Hardwar, loved that game. Basic idea was a moon (albeit I'd still prefer space), where you're stuck in craters. Could own a warehouse and pick on the AI (there would be bounty hunts and "pirates" to pick on), taking their goods, likewise for players.

Hmm, but what would I like in multiplayer for a game like X3?
  • Co-op, similar to the current X3 but with more than a sole player :roll:
  • Raiding rival bases sounded good from above, perhaps tie that in with co-op, yet a seperate mode? Sort of like tug-of-war :P
  • Perhaps some sort of "assault the objective(s)", with a heavily defended base, one attacking team, one defending, not sure how that'd work entirely though.
    • Probably something like destroy the shield nodes or something, turrets can shoot you (player or AI controlled?), fighters chase you away (or kill you? most definitely player controlled).
    • Mines, Torpedo Vessels, Shield Nodes and Lasertowers I guess. Time limited I reckon.
I'm going to talk a little theoretically here, if you did an entirely multiplayer game (much like Enemy Territory: QUAKE Wars or Battlefield 2) excluding "true" co-op, at least include "bots". They can take a game some way if you allow a player to practice on them before hitting the real players. And if the online community doesn't shape up how you'd wish it to be (as a player), then its somewhere to go as refuge until friends come online.

I miss cooperative play in the Aliens versus Predator sense (first in the series), shooting up those semi-mindless aliens with friends and family :D

Anyway, thats my 2 pence worth I reckon.
foxz88
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Post by foxz88 »

I"m asking myself what would happen to my property (station, ship, complex) when I log out.

I think we could have sector that are heavily protected by the AI so your ennemy could not destroy them but your profit would be limited. As your empire extend, you could build factory in lower security sector were the profit would be higher. You would have to put patrol, lasertower, strong sheild, drone, etc... You could even buy protection from the AI so when your factory is under attack, the AI would "jump" a fleet to protect it.
shane-oh
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Post by shane-oh »

Here is what I think
Deathmatch: Just a small sector with each player in an m3+ - 5 type ship

Super deathmatch: average sector, massive fleets

A scenario where one player has to defend a complex/factory from the other players by deploying mines and such (would be fun in a minefield)

Capture the flag: Player has to open their cargo bay to get the "flag" and eject it in a certain area (no transporters to move the flag about), and for the team to return the flag, they need to destroy the ship and collect the "flag"

King of the Hill: just staying within a certain distance of a station, nothing too complex

Also when selecting a ship to play as, the player should get a certain amount of points which they use to buy and equip their ships, the cost of everything based on how good it is
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Nanook
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Post by Nanook »

I know that Bernd has said they'll at some point develop some sort of multiplayer game, but I don't really see how that would work without greatly simplifying the current game structure, which I wouldn't want to see happen. Maybe something where you develop your empires offline, and then join with one or more online players to battle it out to see who has the strongest empire/fleet. Even then, the multiplayer gameplay would probably have to be greatly simplified. Personally, though, I'd just rather see Egosoft's efforts going into making the game world more complex and more lively, with a lot more player-NPC interaction.

But what I think would be cool is some way to have an ingame chat connection to other players, while you're playing your single player game. Perhaps even have some sort of video connection where you could give other players a glimpse of your game, even let them observe your battles in progress.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

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mdimasso
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Post by mdimasso »

In my opinion (and I may repeat ideas for previous posts) the game should be like this:

-The servers should not be massive, only 8 to 32 players or something like that. This way the universe wouldn't get crowded too fast, and it would create a nice competition enviroment between rival player companies and fleets. All of this in the normal single-player system we all know.

-You should only log off while docked in a station (not a ship). Also if you dock in one of your stations, and it gets destroyed, it counts as your death too. That is why players should dock in NPC stations or protected places.
Yes, your own stuff can be shot down while you are not watching, it keeps the game real. If you decide to have a huge empire, deal with it, you have to protect it, the space is a dangerous place. That is why the core sectors should have much stronger defenses to help "newbies" in their way to better ships and first buildings.

-If you die you should reappear in some sort of Hospital Facility (which should be added to most imortant sectors) with an M5 of the corresponding race (the one owner of the sector you are in). If you had an insurance, you would get in cash a percetange of the ship you died on's worth (more expensive ships, more expensive insurance... insurance should exist for stations too).

-The travelling system should be tweaked, as SETA won't work. Someone said the same as I thought, something similiar to the cruise engines in Freelancer. I think this would solve the problem.

-There should be some kind of interaction between players, apart from creating parties and go hunting for loot, such as buy-sell stations, ships, money transfers, etc.

-Each player should count as a separate faction for the purpose of friend-foe settings.

A little idea: if a player destroys a ship or station owned by another player, the latest has the chance of, in response, place a bounty (BBS mission) on the agressor's head. That would dispatch some NPC bounty-hunters along with other players interested in the money.

Just a bunch of thoughts, hope you like them.

Also, please, if you know abount Freelnacer servers, check this out, I need help! http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=195326
junj.chan
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Post by junj.chan »

I think there must be the freedom to do what you want as there is in single player. Maybe having a seperate multiplayer and singleplayer universe would work well.

-The multi universe should be small, the point being you play with your friends.
-It could work quite well in a similar style to some RTS's where multiplayer games are saveable so you can resume them later (Empire Earth comes to mind)
-To resume the game you should have most players present (perhaps 2/3rds).
-Any player that is not present has all stations controlled by the computer, ships that are running on auto-pilot continue. Any ship that the player was flying or does not have orders is temporarily removed from the game.
-Property of absent player still in the game should either be invulnerable to other players but destroyable by the computer but some compensation paid for anything destroyed or perhaps completely invulnerable.
-Each player is a faction in order to set Friend or Foe settings.
-There should be several "wilderness" reigons made of several empty (+ roids) sectors for player expansion.
-These wilderness reigons allow for players to either build their own individual empires, 1 empire together, or several opposing empires in teams.
-If players ally to create an empire they count as 1 faction and are able to declare war or make alliances etc. with all NPC factions. (Will require some sort of diplomacy screen, or even better diplomats and embassies)
-Start conditions should include things like starting money. This means you can all start from scratch or all start with enough to build your empires and slog it out, or anything in between.
-There will also need to be sort of team work systems, such as the ability to form squadrons/gangs/fleets/whatever else you want to call them. When one member of a squad accepts a BBS then all squad members have accepted it. Prize money is split evenly between all players.
-No PvP should be an option when starting a game but should not be adjustable during the game, after all, thats what you all agreed to at the start.
-There should be some sort of script limitation, i.e. no scripting objects in/out by players. Scripts, such as software or mission scripts, should still be allowed so you can add extras into your game.
-Another starting option could be race. This will determine your race rankings at the start of the game. All players start neutral to each other. And possible an option to be neutral to everyone.
-I think it would be good to have the ability to let somebody else control your assets if your not there, be this in game by handing over possesion temporarily or physically, as in let someone else play your game (don't know how to do this though, possibly just a simple save game transfer).
-Allowing new player to join would be good as well only by agreement of all players, perhaps through some sort of voting system. New players should start with the same conditons as all original players did.
-There was more but i've forgotten it. (but i think i've remembered most of it now)
-And this is by far the longest post i've ever written on a fourm.... :roll:
Doomed498
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Post by Doomed498 »

The main thing I'd like to see would probably be some sort of co-op mode (like in freelancer) where there is a persistent server which the players log into. It wouldn't have to have too many players, only maybe between 4 and 8. Each player could exists as a separate race, giving you the ability to make another player either your friend or enemy.

The universe size should be configurable (small, medium or large). The larger sizes should be bigger than the current universe, especially if the game had 8 players. The entire universe should be PvP, however security in the very core sectors (Argon Prime, etc) should be so tight that to attack another player really wouldn't be worth it (like in Eve Online).

Quite a few things will have to be tweaked for multiplayer, for example SETA could be replace with some sort of high speed cruise engine (again, like in freelancer).

When logging off, a players assets would remain on the server, except for the playership and any ships that undocked and had no orders. This would mean it would be up to the player to defend their stations, so improved options to patrol and defend would need to be included.

Saving the game could be handled by the server and the game could only be resumed when a configurable number of people were available to join.

I think that the player should only be defeated once they are killed and they have no more assets and below a certain amount of cash. Otherwise if the player is killed, they just end up back at either their nearest station or the nearest shipyard or equipment dock. There should be some penalty for death, perhaps taking a large sum of money from the player?

I'd love to one day have the ability to be able to build complexes and fleets and then challenge those of other people's!
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em3e3
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Post by em3e3 »

Here's a different take on MP: A mixture of AI controlled trading/mercenary companies and player-owned companies. That way, you don't necessarily know who is AI and who is a real person, unless you/they want to make contact. And, if you choose to leave an MP game, you can keep your property and move it to a new game.

If you're not playing, you can set which ships/stations continue trading, and are subject to damage/loss, and which stations/ships become 'invincible' or at least untouched.
Criminal_Colt
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Post by Criminal_Colt »

I'm not fussed so long as it doesn't impinge on a decent single player experience.

I love multi-player games but I don't have any extra ideas.
parameter
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Post by parameter »

Criminal_Colt wrote:I'm not fussed so long as it doesn't impinge on a decent single player experience.
I love multi-player games but I don't have any extra ideas.
I totally agree with you! Multi player in a multiverse is great, mainly for those with the network and money but for those of us that have to work for a living , :P ...give 'kids' their pocket money etc we need to have stress relief in the less costly single player mode.
As I mentioned before I used to run game servers and think the limit on M/Player should ideally be 8 to 12, the load usually fouls up the ethernet at some point so lag is a real pain. Most network data still has to negotiate ancient, telecommunication infrastructure.. quick dig at our national provider
:P
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