[X3LU] Mayhem 3.21b

[medwed]

Can someone else please check? It is important that you update .cat/.dat files. Strange thing is that you have them when you create new OWPs... Weird.

My large weapon platforms also got the cds mk3 (as build-in).

[Nefasi]

@Joubarbe: Go on vacation already!

Next playthrough, I think I'm going to go for a Commonwealth Fighter, and stick em with Particle Accelerator Cannons (70k cred) rather than the Electro-Magnetic Plasma Cannon (186k cred), or even the Impulse Ray Emitter (23k cred). Probably Falcon Sentinels? Since im going for the cheaper/efficient lasers than the lackluster laser regen won't seem too bad. Sharing the 200MJ will also make it easier to streamline mainline M3s and M6s.

I'm just learning the ropes with fighters and up until Mayhem 2 refused to use them.
- 2013 in vanilla> kamikaze suicide = never ever use them
- 2015 in LU> fighters actually work thanks to "Bounce" but you can't or don't want to afford repairs/losses = so you stay out of trouble and skip fighters. Use them only later in the game with a big bank account (for fun) and even then only with heavy armament so they can kill fast before losses rack up
- 2017 in Mayhem with ADS> Hey the game balance allows for spending some resources to repair and/or replace a fighter here and there. You're also forced to use them as they are pretty much all you have in the beginning, so i tried my luck. The only thing i hate is that the OOS calculations don't take their size and evasive potential into account.

It's probably obvious for most of you and the mechanics are the same for big ships. But as i never used M3 much my conclusion came pretty late - just after the first OCV invsasion.
If you don't kill the enemy fast (and you probably won't in early game). Don't use the heavier guns the fighter can mount.
Being used to LU i tried to equip Gamma Ray Cannons, Plasma Burst Generators and such. Even the Arrow couldn't sustain the fire against a PX. When the alpha strike fails you're gonna sit there and watch such a high class fighter with the best laser recharge rate firing just a single green spark every 5 seconds. With the OWP it was the same.
I'm gonna downgrade the weapons now. It will free some cash for sure.

So far i used a wing of Falcon Sentinels because of the 400MJ shield. The survivability is really great. The offense just poor. They were equipped with Energy Bolt Chainguns and this weapon was too heavy for them from my observations. But i can totally recommend them. Enemy heavy weapons that are meant to knock through such a defence will miss often and they survive the lesser fire long enough until the turret switches target or they ADS retreat. Best use them before a hard hitting squadron get's into action.
The Falchion is a discount tip. You get fire power that nearly rivals the heaviest M3's for under 4mil and it's sturdy too. The speed is roughly the same as the Falcon S. so they won't stretch out the formation that much if used in combination.

For carriers i don't like the TM solution as i think i can have a better handling with fewer capital ships (also repair ware storage). Fortunately i can start to build a couple of Teladi Terns soon. Costing around 50mil they are the cheapest capital carrier with 25 fighter ports.

My mining fleet choice is the Kite Miner. It gives the most Mobile Drilling Systems for the buck.

Managing a TM carrier fleet is kinda tedious and kinda not. Especially when telling them to go do things through ADS. Grouping them in a wing to move all the TMs together is nice, and you can keep Automatic Mode on for the most part. Protecting a wingless ship is the best way to string em together. Though there are instances where a few fighters will go become Rambo and die. And if the fighters deploy, they stay out the entire time you specify them too, and if you leave it at 300 seconds, thats a lovely 5 minutes of them chilling in the air after you clear the hostiles. You can emergency dock them, but then you gotta re-enable their Automatic Mode. Easy for 2 or 3, not so much when you get to 10+

You stock em with fighters by first having all your TMs numbered (I use ADS auto number mode) and chilling in space, near the sanctuary. Then you Template Outfit them with the homebase (the command on the sanctuary) pointed at the TM you want to stock up with. Rename the fighters through ADS through their carrier. If you prefer, you can go to the carrier's owned ships and tell all owned ships to hide themselves from the property menu as you'll never need to manage the fighters themselves.

You can repair while they're docked in the carrier. But I find it easier to dock the carrier and have the sanctuary do a repair of the fighters (the fighter can be docked inside the carrier!).

The upside with fighter swarms, is that OOS I think favors them, or at least, it doesn't absolutely wreck them. Sure you'll be trading a few fighters for the big target, unless ADS saves them, but in terms of the credits you put on the field, you're punching way above your pay grade. Of course, when I say swarm, I mean like 80+ per target. Litcube has if i remember correctly did mention that he changed OOS to more accurately simulate IS conditions than vanilla but idk how different the two are.

The Falcon Sentinels 19MW recharge and 4,856MJ bank means it'll run out pretty fast. The Thor has 42MW and 11,835MJ for comparison. I kinda doubt it can run the PAC for a decent amount of time.

The fighters don't actually cost that many credits. For example, the credits required to build a Falcon Sentinel are :
358,972 credits for the raw materials (without bonuses)
311,632 credits for the shields
210,348 credits for 9 IREs (611 DPS per, 5,499 DPS total)
880,952 credits in total
160.2 credits per DPS

Or 631,044 credits for 9 PACs (775 DPS per, 6,975 DPS total)
186.6 credits per DPS


For the Thor :
489,280 credits for the raw materials (without bonuses)
428,500 credits for the shields
1,899,810 credits for 10 EMPCs (1637 DPS per, 16,370 DPS total)
2,817,590 credits in total
172.1 credits per DPS

I've not really progressed with managing capitals. My corvette fleet is literally Kamikazi bombing with CIGs and HEPTs (the alpha is noice). And the Washis I've taken I've just been using them with Tri-Beams in the front and Flaks all over. They took down the Exterminator (my first M2!) shields so I could boop it with the cobra and board it with the marines. (Btw, I hate chaff hitting boarding pods, like, at this point, we should just have the marines hold onto handrails outside the ship and just kick off. And yes, that exterminator did have chaff and no, flails wont sneak in the boarding pods ). Any advice on the roles I can press the 3 Washis I have now or the 1 Exterminator?

[Nefasi]

Any advice on the roles I can press the 3 Washis I have now or the 1 Exterminator?

4 M7 Washis
3 M7 Maruaders
1 M2 Exterminator
1 M1 Polacca

I went and capped some ships to end Day 2 with a bang.

Also I've got my miner fleet up and rolling. Around 80 Eclipse Miners are now mining away happily, without shields, defense weapons, or even an escort, in Unknown Sector Alpha. On the down side, the 6 seller cap is making it difficult to sell minerals as they're also busy selling loot and factory goods. Either I need to do it manually every now and then or get another sanctuary to route the products to instead.

[The Cuban Nightmare]

I tend to keep M7's for sector defense since they can generally outclass most small pirate raids. Set the auto jump and you should be fine. Get a Starliner Dock up and set your heavier ship to base there. The MLCC allows for fleet movement and coordination. If you give them all quantum jumpdrive extensions, you can have a jump beacon in your cargo and the fleet can jump directly to your position instead of a gate. It's great for when you need to deal with enemy capital ships.

I personally focus on heavy ships since fighters tend to die quickly. If you can get a good routine going, capturing large ships and recycling them to build smaller ones is a viable strategy. I am currently building a fleet of 25 Setantas which should be enough to roll face on most things.

For your mining fleet, you should get a few TLs. Get shields on your miners ASAP or they can get wrecked in OOS. If you base the miners to a TL, you can go to the TL and select "Mining Base" as a command. This will set all homebased ships to mine and then drop off their cargo at the TL. Set the TL to follow a miner and you'll never have to worry about it again. To actually sell stuff, you can use a courier command on a TS to collect the goods and drop them at a base or you can send another TL, transfer the goods and sell manually.

[VincentTH]

oK, I found the problem. I did not rename MayHem.cvat|dat file to the highest number.

Fixing that solves the problem

[pioupes]

No need quantum jumpgate to allow MLCC ship jump to your beacon in cargobay, but it's better to have it in each ship with a jump beacon near starliner and maccallum dock to retreat and fast redeploy

[VincentTH]

My DA Buy ships keep getting killed in Pirate sectors, despite not having a Property in that sector (Spit Fire). Is this a new feature?

The ship has a jump drive, and autoJump set to Yes. There are plenty of ECs in the sanctuary where it is homed. It only need to buy Meat Steak and ECs.

[Joubarbe]

Does it have enough e-cells? What is its destination? If it hasn't got enough e-cells to jump to the buying station, it will try to refuel, then maybe go through hostile sectors.

Try to restart it.

[Sirrobert]

My DA Buy ships keep getting killed in Pirate sectors, despite not having a Property in that sector (Spit Fire). Is this a new feature?

The ship has a jump drive, and autoJump set to Yes. There are plenty of ECs in the sanctuary where it is homed. It only need to buy Meat Steak and ECs.

Did you set the minimal reload jump fuel to ensure the ship has enough fuel to jump to the destination AND back home?

You need to set the refuel number to twice the max jump distance of the station +1

[VincentTH]

My DA Buy ships keep getting killed in Pirate sectors, despite not having a Property in that sector (Spit Fire). Is this a new feature?

The ship has a jump drive, and autoJump set to Yes. There are plenty of ECs in the sanctuary where it is homed. It only need to buy Meat Steak and ECs.

Did you set the minimal reload jump fuel to ensure the ship has enough fuel to jump to the destination AND back home?

You need to set the refuel number to twice the max jump distance of the station +1

Fuel is set to 70, and Sanctuary range is set to 9

[hanuland]

My DA Buy ships keep getting killed in Pirate sectors, despite not having a Property in that sector (Spit Fire). Is this a new feature?

The ship has a jump drive, and autoJump set to Yes. There are plenty of ECs in the sanctuary where it is homed. It only need to buy Meat Steak and ECs.

Did you set the minimal reload jump fuel to ensure the ship has enough fuel to jump to the destination AND back home?

You need to set the refuel number to twice the max jump distance of the station +1

Fuel is set to 70, and Sanctuary range is set to 9

In Litcube's setup guide.

Code: Select all

Plugin manager is not compatible.
Bonus Pack is not compatible.
Mods not specifically designed for LU as per author description are not compatible.

This has been reported in a number of the Korean community, and the cause has also been revealed.

Have you ever installed a bonus pack? Then, you did not install clean yet in my opinion.
If DA does not jump, I think that you had install the bonus pack.
AP's Bonus packs cause conflicts with the LU and as a result, not only the DA also the UT do not will jump.

This is not a matter of Joubarbe or Mayhem.

If you want to install Mayhem 2 without problems with steam, you can refer to this article. Translated for you.

http://blog.naver.com/hanuland/221067781800

[VincentTH]

My DA Buy ships keep getting killed in Pirate sectors, despite not having a Property in that sector (Spit Fire). Is this a new feature?

The ship has a jump drive, and autoJump set to Yes. There are plenty of ECs in the sanctuary where it is homed. It only need to buy Meat Steak and ECs.

Did you set the minimal reload jump fuel to ensure the ship has enough fuel to jump to the destination AND back home?

You need to set the refuel number to twice the max jump distance of the station +1

Fuel is set to 70, and Sanctuary range is set to 9

In Litcube's setup guide.

Code: Select all

Plugin manager is not compatible.
Bonus Pack is not compatible.
Mods not specifically designed for LU as per author description are not compatible.

This has been reported in a number of the Korean community, and the cause has also been revealed.

Have you ever installed a bonus pack? Then, you did not install clean yet in my opinion.
If DA does not jump, I think that you had install the bonus pack.
AP's Bonus packs cause conflicts with the LU and as a result, not only the DA also the UT do not will jump.

This is not a matter of Joubarbe or Mayhem.

If you want to install Mayhem 2 without problems with steam, you can refer to this article. Translated for you.

http://blog.naver.com/hanuland/221067781800

I don't think this has anything to do with the Bonus Pack, as I have deleted the BP from LU a long time ago (This is the 12 time I ran MayHem using the same LU install). Also, all other DA at other Sanctuary does not have this problem.

The only thing different, is that I have the new feature "Add Sanctuary Default Products" to that very station. I only have the DA Buy EC, and nothing else.
Also, the Sanctuary in question has 40K EC, so it ruled out the fact that the DA runs out of ECs.
My guess is somehow the DA-Buy ship tries to buy Soja Husk in Split Fire, a product that is not on my buy list, and a sector where I don't even have a satellite in.


[EDIT]

Note this has not happened to me before, until this release (I did not play much before 2.1.3, however).

I was able to reproduce the problem (same station, different ship). The ship has plenty of EC to jump home, but choose to fly to the gate instead. The ship died a few seconds after I save the game. (Look at South gate in Brennan Triumph. There is no property of mine in that sector, so the ship has no business being there)

save game

[snajpa]

1 day in game and everything seems to be going great. Love the DA changes although they dont seem to reserve runs.

Suppliers/Gathers will sometimes both run to a factory thats rdy for I/E but only one is needed. I feel like IDN did not to that but i could not be remembering correctly. Still It does not seem to be a problem yet or if ever.

All in all I like what u have done with 2.1.2

I may change it as well (I've already changed DA Buyers in 2.1.3). In IDN, only one ship can do a job at a time. In this built-in version, two ships can do the same job at the same time.

Yes i can confirm what Ghost140 said, in my game as soon as there is a factory that needs let's say e-cells all 5 suppliers jump on that task resulting in all of my ore mines and other factories stock with e-cells to the maximum capacity.

With gatherers situation is similar eg three ships going to one factory as soon as it hit export treshold %, as well as with freighters, it's normal to see sancutaries stocks at 183% of set capacity because two freighters are doing same task like if they could not see each other doing that already.

So far at least for me the IDN seems to handle things better.

[Joubarbe]

Do you run 2.1.3? All DA agents have been changed. If they're all going at the same place now, it's because there is nothing else to do.

[Hector0x]

I think he didn't object because ships were not properly managing their tasks, but that they can overshoot now. If you have more than one LU-Freighter the whole capacities setting on the sanctuaries becomes purposeless because when the conditions are met to haul some resources all of them do it at the same time and you end up with the amount you wanted multiplied by the number of freighters (4 freighters haul 100% individually so you get 400% in the dock)
Setting the capacity down accordingly is only a faulty workaround because then the wares get sold by DA-Sellers.

Only real option is to use just 1 LU-Freighter per Dock. Nothing big, but maybe a fix is possible, so it's worth mentioning.

Edit: I don't use freighters to empty the factories, only for resource transfer between sanctuaries.

[snajpa]

I think he didn't object because ships were not properly managing their tasks, but that they can overshoot now. If you have more than one LU-Freighter the whole capacities setting on the sanctuaries becomes purposeless because when the conditions are met to haul some resources all of them do it at the same time and you end up with the amount you wanted multiplied by the number of freighters (4 freighters haul 100% individually so you get 400% in the dock)
Setting the capacity down accordingly is only a faulty workaround because then the wares get sold by DA-Sellers.

Only real option is to use just 1 LU-Freighter per Dock. Nothing big, but maybe a fix is possible, so it's worth mentioning.

Edit: I don't use freighters to empty the factories, only for resource transfer between sanctuaries.

Yes 2.1.3.

Don't get me wrong im not complaining, in fact i don't mind my factories being fully stocked as long as it's due to me which factory, but on the other hand it's not very efficient use of available resources and totaly not the behaviour i was expecting to see.

Freighters

Me too only for transfers sanctuary-sanctuary and that's where i see them misbehaving (is that the correct spelling?) on the side note DA Sellers don't seem to care about overstock set to YES, they sell even overstocked goods and IIRC in vanilla LUV they ignored such a goods.

[Joubarbe]

I was able to reproduce the problem (same station, different ship). The ship has plenty of EC to jump home, but choose to fly to the gate instead. The ship died a few seconds after I save the game. (Look at South gate in Brennan Triumph. There is no property of mine in that sector, so the ship has no business being there)

save game

You mean the ship that get destroyed 200ms after I load the savegame? Yeah... great.

Freighters could be improved I agree. They are vanilla. You shouldn't need more than 2 to do Sanctuary to Sanctuary wares transfer though. I've spent more than a day trying to get the Dock Agents smart, I won't do it again.

[snajpa]

I was able to reproduce the problem (same station, different ship). The ship has plenty of EC to jump home, but choose to fly to the gate instead. The ship died a few seconds after I save the game. (Look at South gate in Brennan Triumph. There is no property of mine in that sector, so the ship has no business being there)

save game

You mean the ship that get destroyed 200ms after I load the savegame? Yeah... great.

Freighters could be improved I agree. They are vanilla. You shouldn't need more than 2 to do Sanctuary to Sanctuary wares transfer though. I've spent more than a day trying to get the Dock Agents smart, I won't do it again.

There's no need to do that, I do appriciate the changes You've made to them especially the buyers and also sellers selling overstocked goods is actually a thing that i always wanted to have option just more control over it would be a nice thing like another switch on threshold page.

In terms of factories i'll just stay with IDN, also freighters are not a big problem, more like a thing to remember when deling with them at the beginning when you have small stocks and limited resources.
Later in game it does'nt really matter if i have 10K or 11K of ore in sanctuary.

Just was thinking that maybe all of this is somehow related to DA changes as i don't remember this happening prior to 2.1.2 or maybe i just didn't notice

[Ghost140]

I have no problems with DA's they are great.

As far as freighters yea they do overstock but that's not really an issue for me if u use no more than 2. So may I suggest to those having issues with freighters to use LU vanilla Couriers with a maintain loop for sanctuary to sanctuary transfers?

Reading the descriptions it should do the job, yes you have to set each one up manually but it should be only a one time thing.

[Joubarbe]

DAs are designed with "later in game" in mind. On the long run, I think they are more efficient as they are now in 2.1.3. If you just starting a game, don't put too many DAs, it's often useless.

(Freighters don't overstock when you put Overstock to no... It's just that there can be a few of them on the same job; that's not Overstock)
(DAs never look at the Overstock option, they buy/gather up until 100%)