Skill and training Feedback

[Gregorovitch]

Can you please explain how this method would work as I do not quite get it?

The rules for autotrading and mining are different for ships assigned to stations. As near as I can tell a station trader or miner can always be assigned and work no matter how many stars thhey have and will be able to travel through a number of gates per deal/mining expedition based on either the station manager's management skill or the pilot's piloting skill, whichever is the greater. This means since it is easy enough to get pilots and managers to 2* using books readily available in the shops it is also easy enough to build a station who's traders and miners will have a two gate range of operation just using "off-the-shelf" rookie staff. Two sector radius of operations is easily sufficient for many a viable starter station.

Furthermore there is now a good reason to build e.g. a food factory. Practically all stations buy food regularly in small quantities so a food factory's traders are going to be very busy all the time on the basis of a two-sector radius of customers and therefore leveling up (relatively) fast automatically. Food factory = Pilot School, basically.

[nightphreak]

I've been running the game non-stop for 4 days now and none of my pilots are getting xp unless i use a seminar not sure if this is a bug or as intended but my pilots are stuck at one or two stars working for stations while my station managers are maxxing out management levels in way less time than that. do pilots have to be manually told to do things to gain xp ? confused as to how they are supposed to be gaining xp if they aren't gaining from daily activities.

[Sandalpocalypse]

no, crew just gain levels at absurdly low rates right now. it's being re-examined by Egosoft, no details yet.

[Matthew94]

I've been running the game non-stop for 4 days now and none of my pilots are getting xp unless i use a seminar not sure if this is a bug or as intended but my pilots are stuck at one or two stars working for stations while my station managers are maxxing out management levels in way less time than that. do pilots have to be manually told to do things to gain xp ? confused as to how they are supposed to be gaining xp if they aren't gaining from daily activities.

May I introduce you to this 13 page raging bonfire on the topic?

<Merged, Alan Phipps>

We always need more fuel for the flames

[M@ReK]

Can you please explain how this method would work as I do not quite get it?

The rules for autotrading and mining are different for ships assigned to stations. As near as I can tell a station trader or miner can always be assigned and work no matter how many stars thhey have and will be able to travel through a number of gates per deal/mining expedition based on either the station manager's management skill or the pilot's piloting skill, whichever is the greater. This means since it is easy enough to get pilots and managers to 2* using books readily available in the shops it is also easy enough to build a station who's traders and miners will have a two gate range of operation just using "off-the-shelf" rookie staff. Two sector radius of operations is easily sufficient for many a viable starter station.

Furthermore there is now a good reason to build e.g. a food factory. Practically all stations buy food regularly in small quantities so a food factory's traders are going to be very busy all the time on the basis of a two-sector radius of customers and therefore leveling up (relatively) fast automatically. Food factory = Pilot School, basically.

Clear now, thanks! Will have to put it in to practise.

[lordmuck]

Sorry if I have skipped it, but "Devs on the case" does that mean they have settled on an idea / already working on some idea / gathering information still?

If the devs have settled on an idea what is it?? Unless I skipped past it in this thread.

[Mahi Ma]

Can't they just limit the free auto traders to 1 per player controlled sector or so?

Also, there are way bigger cash cows in the game.... even a simple maintenance dock can make you rich - traders are good for the early game but later on those few cents don't really matter (it's not an realistic economy in the first place).

Also, how are you supposed to help struggeling factions without AI ships?

I don't quite get it why this had to be nerfd. It's not that the AI is too good with any star... Add war heroes characters who can kill 2 Ms with a scout if there is really a need for hard-to-get pilots.

[artig4n]

I personally wouldn't even play the game if there weren't mods available to eliminate the silly crew training feature. I absolutely don't want my crew to be 'individuals', I want them to be cookie cutter replacements for each other, all the same. That part of the game doesn't interest me, and I just find it annoying and frustrating.

So that's my feedback.

[bigdan6248]

I don't know if it has been suggested yet, but:
What about an Academy? Make it a station (and the ability for player to build one) that trains pilots/managers/ship traders/marines, etc. The player provides the cadets and retrieves them at the end of a set course period.
It would also be nice to have a shuttle or other type of cadet/employee/people mover. Kind of like a freighter now, but with small cargospace, but ample room for persons to move to and from academy, fleets, defense stations, etc.

[chew-ie]

I don't know if it has been suggested yet, but:
What about an Academy? Make it a station (and the ability for player to build one) that trains pilots/managers/ship traders/marines, etc. The player provides the cadets and retrieves them at the end of a set course period.
It would also be nice to have a shuttle or other type of cadet/employee/people mover. Kind of like a freighter now, but with small cargospace, but ample room for persons to move to and from academy, fleets, defense stations, etc.

No, this idea is new after one week of constant discussion.

Just kiddin, yeah, that was dropped a few times already. We are in a loop for a couple of days now - nothing new to add besides venting some steam.

[reanor]

I honestly don’t understand why this hasn’t been addressed appropriately. If the player base complaining for years that piloting skill is very slow training, why not actually LISTEN to what we are saying? Those books are fine, get to level 2, and I don’t mind flying around, but I’ve been running my explorer guy and my traders NONE-STOP for darn THREE DAYS- 75 hours!!!!, and all I get is measly 1/10 of a star, WHY?

Books for leveling 3+ are VERY rare and only through missions I saw maybe 2 missions for them. What is so SPECIAL about this darn piloting skill training that it almost became a fetish of X4 since the release? Why do you need to punish the player who wants to enjoy vanilla with this sadistic piloting skill training time?

If you say it’s for balance - well it’s NOT. In order to appropriately balance things like that, you supposed to improve other game elements and provide access to those rare books. Increase the rate at which level 3 seminars drop from kills, ventures and missions. You are GIMPING our play by limiting the mandatory gameplay element, we can’t advance our pilots which means they can’t use more advanced piloting features, which means we can’t use them in our game.

Just stop it already and get the darn rate corrected. If I play a game for 300 hours, ALL my pilots supposed to be level 5!!!! I want to rage when I look back and see how long this annoying problem been festering this game. It’s a darn slap on a face to all your fans that’s you can’t resolve this blasted issue since the games buggy release. Arghhhhj!

[abisha1980]

I honestly don’t understand why this hasn’t been addressed appropriately. If the player base complaining for years that piloting skill is very slow training, why not actually LISTEN to what we are saying? Those books are fine, get to level 2, and I don’t mind flying around, but I’ve been running my explorer guy and my traders NONE-STOP for darn THREE DAYS- 75 hours!!!!, and all I get is measly 1/10 of a star, WHY?

Books for leveling 3+ are VERY rare and only through missions I saw maybe 2 missions for them. What is so SPECIAL about this darn piloting skill training that it almost became a fetish of X4 since the release? Why do you need to punish the player who wants to enjoy vanilla with this sadistic piloting skill training time?

If you say it’s for balance - well it’s NOT. In order to appropriately balance things like that, you supposed to improve other game elements and provide access to those rare books. Increase the rate at which level 3 seminars drop from kills, ventures and missions. You are GIMPING our play by limiting the mandatory gameplay element, we can’t advance our pilots which means they can’t use more advanced piloting features, which means we can’t use them in our game.

Just stop it already and get the darn rate corrected. If I play a game for 300 hours, ALL my pilots supposed to be level 5!!!! I want to rage when I look back and see how long this annoying problem been festering this game. It’s a darn slap on a face to all your fans that’s you can’t resolve this blasted issue since the games buggy release. Arghhhhj!

yea that's something that makes one wonder, it's not a MMO, not a Online game. it's a freaking sandbox game with zero objectives other then giving the player some fun, and this ain't it.

[MHDriver]

My perspective is this. This is a single player game. It harms no body if a player wants to hit the easy button to get his/her crew trained up quickly any more than allowing modding. Players are free to use whatever mod they want and it harms no one. There are an infinite number of play styles so why not just let the players have what they want by making it a game settings selection that can be toggled. This endless "balance" debate on single players games is silly.

[Axeface]

Been playing more. Ive noticed that miners are leveling up management a lot and their piloting barely moves.
Overall it really seems slow egosoft. I have a miner that has been mining for hours, dozens and dozens of trades completed, and the captain has improved their overall star rating by 1/3 of a star, from 1 star to 1.3 stars (their piloting has not moved, management has).

Considering that 1 to 2 stars is supposed to be faster than the higher levels, I cant even imagine how long 2 - 3 is going to take.

Ide recommend speeding up 1 - 3 stars progression a little, like 30%.

Ide also like to say though... Im starting to get into the idea, because I saw a mission that rewarded a 4 star seminar and my reaction was to hammer my backspace key and get excited like a child.

My perspective is this. This is a single player game. It harms no body if a player wants to hit the easy button to get his/her crew trained up quickly any more than allowing modding. Players are free to use whatever mod they want and it harms no one. There are an infinite number of play styles so why not just let the players have what they want by making it a game settings selection that can be toggled. This endless "balance" debate on single players games is silly.

Disagree entirely. The whole point of most games is that a developer presents the player with a challenge that is fun and rewarding to overcome and players decide which games they personally like... the player should not chose these things within the confines of the 'vanilla' experience for most games. Other games do 'creative' mode and other stuff like that, which basically gives the player the ability to make their own experience, and those games I HATE.

[radcapricorn]

Ide also like to say though... Im starting to get into the idea, because I saw a mission that rewarded a 4 star seminar and my reaction was to hammer my backspace key and get excited like a child.

...but then you look at what that mission is and go like "bleh, this nonsense again..." Like, go between two sectors picking up and dropping resource probes in the same places. Really...

[Sandalpocalypse]

the current system of obtaining sufficient seminars to reach 2 stars is, from the player perspective, XR all over again. You need three 1-star seminars per pilot you want at skill 2. AFAICT, station traders have 1-3 such seminars when you talk to them. So you need to visit *1.5 stations per pilot*.. Equipping even a modest wing of 4 ships with 2 star pilots requires you to make at least 132 clicks - 4 to dock at a station, 10 to walk to and purchase seminars, then 15 to select, comm, and give seminar from .66 stars to 2. Plus travel time and walking time.

Ironically given the extremely poor XP rates they could have just removed basic and 1-star seminars and given us 2star pilots straight from the shipyard and it would have changed nothing in terms of getting 3 star pilots.

[Ranix]

I've been no-lifing X4 hard core from Friday night to Sunday (actually Monday morning). I trained all my pilots to 2 stars using seminars. Not a single one of my pilots has made it to 3 stars yet. I have 6 autominers

[Skeeter]

Maybe a xp bar for the levelling to see progress or a percentage indicator for the skill of said perspn would help show the progress. So they dont thing there not.

[Sandalpocalypse]

You don't accrue XP, you make rolls to level up.

[TonyEvans]

You don't accrue XP, you make rolls to level up.

Honestly, that change right there would probably be a drastic step in the right direction.