Notchi wrote:
Everyone is spoiled by the normal part of game marketing for the last 10 years ? The thing about screenshots is that they are only showing the obvious. And that is that the graphics in 2011/12 ( when they were taken) is better than the one in 2008( and 11 for AP). It showed a general art direction for the ships, and that all is fine. But people under some strange disillusion ( like the release dates of 2011, 2012) expected to get the info about the stuff that really matter. Like changes in UI, sector set up ( not 199 c/p sectors), pilot animations, voice acting changes(heeee yaaaaaaaaaa), quest improvements, economy improvements, fleet management, ship supply changes ... and so on. Egosoft right now has a lot of years in development of space games, and hopefully they will make an impact in the genre with this title ( or in case they fail... we can always count RSI to save the day).
If they tell us everything now what do you expect them to tell us in the marketing campaign and honestly I would prefer to find out a lot of details for my self in game by exploring the game myself not to be told everything on the forums before the release.
Ok as far as a story line goes that makes sense but when talking about a game you want to buy people want to know what it can offer them, myself I'm fine buying the game now with what info has been released but some people want more in the place of being able to play the game right now.... can't say I blame them lol.
“Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed.”
― Alexander Pope
"Tis better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent...
Fallent wrote:BUT NEXT CHRISTMAS? You've got to be kidding me. That's a massive delay! It's only the start of March! I want an March/April release date, not a few days before 2014!
And I want a working polished game with a ton of content in it. Don't rush it, there's no point.
Athraku wrote:
That's kind of not true... the official release year has been post on the egosoft site and has changed as the date has come and gone, it only makes sense that people would get frustrated as yet another date is gone lol.
a year might have been mentioned, but there was no mention that it was a christmas release, that was an assumtion
kilerkg wrote:
If they tell us everything now what do you expect them to tell us in the marketing campaign and honestly I would prefer to find out a lot of details for my self in game by exploring the game myself not to be told everything on the forums before the release.
"everything now" is an exaggeration. A few decent sentences on mentioned subject's is all i ask. Maybe even a demonstration in a promo video ( like the think, build, trade for x:tc). X3 series of game while interesting is a bit clunky and infuriating in some segments. Like tedious replacement of lost ships, archaic UI... I'm asking for the info which addresses the weaknesses of previous titles.
Take mount & blade for an example. Open world sim game developed by a small studio that gets better each iteration. They address the problems of the last game, and they try to improve it in the following.
X:TC improved UI a bit from X:R ( still annoying can't chat and steer bug... but oh well). They have added some new stuff, kept a lot of old ones . Now rebirth is suppose to be a fresh take on the series. 10 years of experience in space sim genre + a bigger manpower will probably revive this almost forgotten genre of games (not counting the kickstarer revival).
Also i hope that they go for the complex type of game such as EVE:O, rather than unnecessarily complicated ( such as Derek Smart type of game).
In short, I like a lot of other people would like to know more about this game, information that already owning previous titles doesn't cover. ("X:R is a game in which you fly in space, build station and shoot stuff")
Notchi wrote:
"everything now" is an exaggeration. A few decent sentences on mentioned subject's is all i ask. Maybe even a demonstration in a promo video ( like the think, build, trade for x:tc). X3 series of game while interesting is a bit clunky and infuriating in some segments. Like tedious replacement of lost ships, archaic UI... I'm asking for the info which addresses the weaknesses of previous titles.
I think what you are asking for is info which addresses the primary weaknesses of previous titles not already revealled? Perhaps issues that for you personally are of prime importance vs. more minor weaknesses.
In fairness Bernd has provided info on many of these issues already but I agree that as an example UI and property management remains something of a matter of trust and faith at this point
Egosoft probably haven't finished those topics yet and are as we speak testing the improvements before sharing that info... winning back the hearts and minds of X3 players looking for that killer feature improvement amoungst the hundreds of others in the abitious sandbox soup.
Cycrow wrote:
the only person to blame for your assumptions is yourself. There was never anything offical about releasing it last christmas, you just assumed it would happen.
you are also assuming that the game is not going to be released until the end of the year. Again nothing offical has confirmed this.
going on the previous games, its likly the game will be released a month or 2 after the marketing starts. As it hasn't started yet, it will likly not be out in march, and april would be pushing it i think.
im sure if the game was released now and was really buggy/unplayable, you would be the first to complain about it
We can only ASSUME things because egosoft is ignoring us (yes, I used that word again) and leading us to ASSUME things. Sorry, Cycrow, but you walked into that one.
I'm just glad I'm not the only one fed up with all the monkey business that we're being lead through.
As for all the hard-core, dedicated, "I don't care. I'll wait till 2015 or later when egosoft delivers a polished product to us" fans out there (notice I didn't use my other "derogatory term"?)...you guys just sound like you are kissing up to egosoft. I can't see how you can sit on your hands for years (and it has been YEARS) and just keep saying, "Oh, I'll just wait...and wait....and wait..."
I too want a finished product. Never in any of my posts did I demand the game released. Nor did I request a specific release date. Nor did I request specific information. What I requested was some information from egosoft to us, the CUSTOMERS THAT WANT TO THROW YOU OUR MONEY, that the game is progressing...."We're looking at xxx quarter of 20xx" I think that's really what we, as the paying customers, want at this time. Information as to how the game is progressing. Give us topics regarding XR to discuss. Don't let us ASSUME things because that's what we are forced to do.
And for the record...I can't speak for all involved in these rants, but I'm not angry....just frustrated. Please take my comments as mere frustration to how we are kept in the dark about things. If you feel I'm attacking you, I'm not because I don't know you. My only "feeling" is frustration. Well...except for the comment about the hard-core, dedicated fans. Those feelings are "bewilderment"
Cowski wrote:
We can only ASSUME things because egosoft is ignoring us (yes, I used that word again) and leading us to ASSUME things. Sorry, Cycrow, but you walked into that one.
just because they are not giving you want you want doesn't mean they are ignoring you
But getting upset because someone doesn't deliver on your assumtions is just silly
Cowski wrote:
As for all the hard-core, dedicated, "I don't care. I'll wait till 2015 or later when egosoft delivers a polished product to us" fans out there (notice I didn't use my other "derogatory term"?)...you guys just sound like you are kissing up to egosoft. I can't see how you can sit on your hands for years (and it has been YEARS) and just keep saying, "Oh, I'll just wait...and wait....and wait..."
perhaps because they are not impatient as you and understand that games do take many years to create and that creating the game from scratch takes alot more time but ultimate will be better in the long run
Cowski wrote:
I too want a finished product. Never in any of my posts did I demand the game released. Nor did I request a specific release date. Nor did I request specific information.
Did i even say you did ? No
i was quoting someone else, who did infact say that
not sure why you think it might have been aimed at you
Cowski wrote:
What I requested was some information from egosoft to us, the CUSTOMERS THAT WANT TO THROW YOU OUR MONEY, that the game is progressing...."We're looking at xxx quarter of 20xx"
But you have been given this information, multiple times, u've been told, in this very thread that its currently on course for 2013, but u've decided thats not good enough
Cowski wrote:
I think that's really what we, as the paying customers, want at this time. Information as to how the game is progressing. Give us topics regarding XR to discuss. Don't let us ASSUME things because that's what we are forced to do.
Hate to break it to you, but you are not a paying customer, no one is, as the product is not available to be bought yet so you havn't put any money into
Cowski wrote:
And for the record...I can't speak for all involved in these rants, but I'm not angry....just frustrated. Please take my comments as mere frustration to how we are kept in the dark about things. If you feel I'm attacking you, I'm not because I don't know you. My only "feeling" is frustration. Well...except for the comment about the hard-core, dedicated fans. Those feelings are "bewilderment"
You frustrations are of your own making, as you beleive you are entitled to something that your not getting
Cowski wrote:
We can only ASSUME things because egosoft is ignoring us (yes, I used that word again) and leading us to ASSUME things. Sorry, Cycrow, but you walked into that one.
just because they are not giving you want you want doesn't mean they are ignoring you
But getting upset because someone doesn't deliver on your assumtions is just silly
Cowski wrote:
As for all the hard-core, dedicated, "I don't care. I'll wait till 2015 or later when egosoft delivers a polished product to us" fans out there (notice I didn't use my other "derogatory term"?)...you guys just sound like you are kissing up to egosoft. I can't see how you can sit on your hands for years (and it has been YEARS) and just keep saying, "Oh, I'll just wait...and wait....and wait..."
perhaps because they are not impatient as you and understand that games do take many years to create and that creating the game from scratch takes alot more time but ultimate will be better in the long run
Cowski wrote:
I too want a finished product. Never in any of my posts did I demand the game released. Nor did I request a specific release date. Nor did I request specific information.
Did i even say you did ? No
i was quoting someone else, who did infact say that
not sure why you think it might have been aimed at you
Cowski wrote:
What I requested was some information from egosoft to us, the CUSTOMERS THAT WANT TO THROW YOU OUR MONEY, that the game is progressing...."We're looking at xxx quarter of 20xx"
But you have been given this information, multiple times, u've been told, in this very thread that its currently on course for 2013, but u've decided thats not good enough
Cowski wrote:
I think that's really what we, as the paying customers, want at this time. Information as to how the game is progressing. Give us topics regarding XR to discuss. Don't let us ASSUME things because that's what we are forced to do.
Hate to break it to you, but you are not a paying customer, no one is, as the product is not available to be bought yet so you havn't put any money into
Cowski wrote:
And for the record...I can't speak for all involved in these rants, but I'm not angry....just frustrated. Please take my comments as mere frustration to how we are kept in the dark about things. If you feel I'm attacking you, I'm not because I don't know you. My only "feeling" is frustration. Well...except for the comment about the hard-core, dedicated fans. Those feelings are "bewilderment"
You frustrations are of your own making, as you beleive you are entitled to something that your not getting
Fair enough. I won't debate with you. We can agree to disagree. We are both pro-egosoft, just different versions that pro-egosoft. You have your opinions, I have mine.
Cycrow, the website said for an entire year "expected to be released in 2012". Yes, I expected a 2012 release believe it or not. I'm sure you can see how I came to that assumption. There was also several posts implying progress is good and Egosoft's getting closed to finished.
Then wham' bam it's moved into 2013. Since 2013 began we've heard or recieved practically nothing about the game.
I don't want to game released before it's ready, but I'm sure you can understand the frustation and why some others feel ignored. (Even if they're not) you can understand the feeling!
We're all clueless and playing a guessing game. This single little thread here is basically all that is left of this game existance of the internet. Sure, you can find it if you google 2011 results...
Fallent wrote:
I don't want to game released before it's ready, but I'm sure you can understand the frustation and why some others feel ignored. (Even if they're not) you can understand the feeling!
No, they(he?) don't understand our frustration. THAT'S JUST IT.
Fallent wrote:
I don't want to game released before it's ready, but I'm sure you can understand the frustation and why some others feel ignored. (Even if they're not) you can understand the feeling!
No, they(he?) don't understand our frustration. THAT'S JUST IT.
I honestly think the biggest mistake Egosoft made was providing a release date in the first place. Projects built "from scratch" are notoriously more volatile than modifications to existing engines (such as Albion Prelude). If the release date was "when it's ready" in the first place, people wouldn't be complaining so much now.
Fallent wrote:Cycrow, the website said for an entire year "expected to be released in 2012". Yes, I expected a 2012 release believe it or not. I'm sure you can see how I came to that assumption. There was also several posts implying progress is good and Egosoft's getting closed to finished.
my point was that you said you expected it to be released at christmas, where did anyone ever say it was a christmas release
saying they are aiming to release in 2012 does not mean "It ill be released christmas 2012"
and saying that its coming in 2013 does not mean that its going to be the end of 2013
release dates slip all the time, games development is not an exact science
your complaining your not getting told when the release date is, but when you were told your complaining because they missed it.
when ur told it'll be in 2013, you dont beleive it, and still demand a proper release date.
you are being told all the information that is available. The reason your not being told other things, like the exact release date is likly because its not know, so theres nothing to tell
what i dont understand is why you believe you are being ignored just because the release date slipped
This topic concentrate the best internet has to offer: two kind of people, not understanding each other, but nonetheless shouting opinions at each other, again and again, in what seems to be the first real perpetual movement in the universe.
Internet is such a wonderful thing.
Please, continue, you are making history.
Ok, then, seriously, each one of you look at yourself for a bit. Yes, just a bit, you'll see it's interesting.
You, Egosoft, messed up big time, I mean BIG TIME, when you failed to deliver your work in the said year. Two times. In a world where game marketing has changed a lot in the past 3 or 5 years. More than before. Crowfunding, social networks and so on has changed the old way, wether we like it or not.
I liked the old way. You didn't know about things, only rumors, you had to buy a magazine to inform yourself, and you discovered most of the game by playing it. The game releases when it's ready. And the people are aware of it when the developer want it, and nobody could complain. Good. I really liked that. But it just doesn't exist anymore.
Now, you open your mouth, you promise, and the trap is ready around you. You failed to deliver, and that becomes a big mistake. And I'm not talking about financial and economical consequences. Deepsilver must have been delighted to know that the release year was inacurate. Two times. I guess the big boss signing the checks must have had a really friendly and cheerful meeting with people in charge. Two times. But that's no what's important.
When you promise to deliver a work (I'm talking about years of release, as you can see, because I know that no exact date was never promised, but a year is a year, 2011 is not 2012 which is not 2013, and so on ...), and you failed, you can't look surprise when people are complaining. If I do that in my job, even the customer that have not yet paid we'll be disapointed. Because they anticipated. And my boss will probably kick my sorry ass, but that's another story.
So I'm surprised when I read that you (Egosoft people kind enough to go here and communicate) say you don't understand.
That said, work is work, industry (gaming or not) is industry, and there's allways something to delay the work. (That's why promising is bad, by the way. There's ALLWAYS something. ) So now all there is to do is to wait.
And not winning perpetualy at people that are anyway trying to clean the mess they did in the first place. Egosoft are good people. I mean, good people regarding the gaming industry. I don't know about good in general. Probably I won't put my overweight cat in their care just because I love their games. Well, maybe if I can keep a fat cat as a pet in the game. Maybe. Anyway.
We all know they will deliver the game, even if they have to do it for free on their free time. We know it will probably be good. When I say probably, I could say that french cheese is probably the best in the world, that internet is probably mainly full of nothing, and that WoW is probably the biggest holdup in the gaming history.
I think the best thing to do is suporting Egosoft, probing them with question from time to time, and forgiving them for their mistake, because they deserve it.
So, I think it would be fair to say that asking the same questions that we know won't get an answer, complaining over and over, starting over the same old argument as before, and, to be clear, playing the unbearable spoiled brat, is probably incredibly stupid.
You know, this child, the son of your sister, whom to you HAVE to be friendly because, well, it's your nephew and you really like your sister, but god, how delightful it would be to, say, smash that anoying face of his with this Action Man box and bury his constant complains under a mountain of imperialism-sponsored plastic toys.
So, as I don't remember how I started this probably useless message and what was it's point, I'll finish quoting my grandfather, in the original version: "Quand on a rien à dire, on ferme sa gueule".
Fallent wrote:Cycrow, the website said for an entire year "expected to be released in 2012". Yes, I expected a 2012 release believe it or not. I'm sure you can see how I came to that assumption. There was also several posts implying progress is good and Egosoft's getting closed to finished.
my point was that you said you expected it to be released at christmas, where did anyone ever say it was a christmas release
saying they are aiming to release in 2012 does not mean "It ill be released christmas 2012"
and saying that its coming in 2013 does not mean that its going to be the end of 2013
release dates slip all the time, games development is not an exact science
your complaining your not getting told when the release date is, but when you were told your complaining because they missed it.
when ur told it'll be in 2013, you dont beleive it, and still demand a proper release date.
you are being told all the information that is available. The reason your not being told other things, like the exact release date is likly because its not know, so theres nothing to tell
what i dont understand is why you believe you are being ignored just because the release date slipped
In the first part of the release date thread there was alot of anticipation about the game being released in 2012, or moving on to 2013. Alot of people hoped as Christmas drew near it would be 2012 release still (as the Egosoft website said) however most realised it wouldn't.
The fact is Egosoft website SAID 2012 RELEASE EXPECTED, so as Christmas drew near alot of people including myself still had some small glimmer of hope it would be a 2012 release.
End of 2012 was December. The Christmas Month. The last month of the year. Do you understand where I was coming from with the Christmas release now?
About 2013 Christmas release comment I made, I said I hoped it would be SOONER than that. Egosoft could still release the game in December and it would be a 2013 release. THAT was my point I was saying. I never said I DID expect it then.
I DO believe this game will be released in 2013, I also believe that 1 day before 2014 is still 2013. Again I'm not saying that WILL be the release date, just making a point.
And I've never once asked for an exact release date, just roughly a 1-2 month period estimate. Surely that has to be known by now?
pouet007 wrote:
Now, you open your mouth, you promise, and the trap is ready around you. You failed to deliver, and that becomes a big mistake. And I'm not talking about financial and economical consequences. Deepsilver must have been delighted to know that the release year was inacurate. Two times. I guess the big boss signing the checks must have had a really friendly and cheerful meeting with people in charge. Two times. But that's no what's important.
thats the problem thou, there was no such promise
there was no official promise that it'll be released in 2011, only a hope that they could be delivered then, unfortautlly they couldn't
Why do you think games companies are reluctant to give out release dates, even just a rough guess.
because people take it as a promise and expect it on that date.
it could go something like this:
Me: I will try to meet you in the pub tomorrow if im able.
Tomorrow:
Me: Sorry, somethings come up and i cant make it to the pub
You: Why cant you, you promised you'd be there and im expecting you to be there
Me: Sorry, something came up, i only said i might be there
You: But you've ruined my day, i planned everything based on meeting at the pub which you promised u'd definatly be there.
stop crying its not out, This isn't water you need nor the food you require! your not going to die!!
It's done when it's done. until then play something else, watch TV, play some sport.
I'd like to play this as much as the next person but I also don't want to be disappointed. So I don't mind it being delayed/pushed back.
I come here to look for new information and read stuff that's interesting.
I'm bored of coming here and seeing people crying like children over a wanting a sweet! I read this thread for information... not to get irritated!
I feel sorry for you mod having to filter and deal with that crud.. and then people like me moaning!!!
p.s.
they have had almost 1000 years to terraform Aldrin, why are they all still sitting around a giant rock?
eladan wrote:And I don't appreciate being told I'm making baseless assumptions.
Then don't make baseless assumptions. You are also assuming my argument, and are trying to refute it based on something that is irrelevant.
eladan wrote:CBJ, being a dev, is a pretty damn good authority. Sure, DS sets the release date, but they obviously can't and don't do it without advice from Egosoft.
Again, this is irrelevant to my point. I completely agree with this statement.
eladan wrote:Again, if you can point me to any posts by CBJ or other Egosoft authority saying the game "will be released in 2011" or "will be released in 2012", I'll concede the point. Otherwise, I'm not confused at all, and I don't see why anyone else would be.
My point is that CBJ has stated it is on schedule for this year, but people may have a reason to be skeptical, given previous statements, such as this one by CBJ at the top of the page mentioning a 2012 (no quarter specified) release frame (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... c&start=60) and also given release dates (2011, 2012, now 2013) posted on DS's site on XR. You can concede at this point (though I know you won't), because an ordinary person could take any of these sources' info as gospel. Deep Silver is XR's publisher. As XR's publisher, they also appear to ordinary people as an authoritative voice on XR's marketing (which encompasses a release date). I'm not saying that I agree or disbelieve anyone at all (which you seem to misunderstand).
If you can't figure out what I was saying at this point, given three misinformed exchanges (meaning that you are arguing against something I have not even contested) then there is nothing to argue about because you must be confused. Honestly, it's getting hard not to laugh because I think you are trolling me; I have to stop this.
Poor mods and devs, must be annoying dealing with spoiled people. If it was me, I would curse so much.
It's kind of funny how some seem to assume others will just ditch Egosoft and never return to the forum just because X Rebirth happens to be delayed. Did people already forget the great games already released in the series?
And some should take a chill pill, really. What ShoC said, it's a game. No reason to be upset about it. If you don't like that it hasn't been released yet, go play some CoD to blow off some steam. Or play some Tetris. Tetris is a good game.
Me: I will try to meet you in the pub tomorrow if im able.
Tomorrow:
Me: Sorry, somethings come up and i cant make it to the pub
You: Why cant you, you promised you'd be there and im expecting you to be there
Me: Sorry, something came up, i only said i might be there
You: But you've ruined my day, i planned everything based on meeting at the pub which you promised u'd definatly be there.
Not the best example cos its assumes of course your mate wasn't at the pub waiting for you when you communicated with him 10mins before you were due to be there.
Are there communication problems? Yes
Does the community outside DevNet lvl:x have to live with that? Yes
Is everyone looking forward to X Rebirth? Yes (with varied lvls of nervous tension)
Last edited by BigBANGtheory on Fri, 1. Mar 13, 23:21, edited 1 time in total.
. Now rebirth is suppose to be a fresh take on the series. 10 years of experience in space sim genre + a bigger manpower will probably revive this almost forgotten genre of games (not counting the kickstarer revival). 
Or play some Tetris. Tetris is a good game.