[MOD] Ship Rebalance Mod ver 0.59 [30/08/2009] + 2 COCKPIT PACKS + Alkeena's BSD!!!!

[someone else]

@Gazz: that is a very cool idea, it would give it a real purpose.

considering there are two Tanker versions:
the first should have the same cargo capacity of a Hauler but limited to S cargo (no price change)
the second should have the same cargo capacity of the bigger SF of that race and still be limited to S cargo (no price change)

about shields: the TS class has been a bit overshielded now , will still have good shields but 5x 200mj shields is a bit too much.

so:
standard TS: 4-6 25mj shields
Hauler TS: 1-2 200Mj shields
Sup. Freighter: 3-4 200mj shields
small Tanker = Hauler
big Tanker = SF

hope that this satisfies all (need of protection, "realism", stupid hardcoded limitations)


what about TMs?
helios and pleco->one more shield
pelican->bigger cargo
caravel-> faster
boa->bigger weapon gen. and better weapons in turrets

anything else that needs a look?

As far as my experiences with the new TS go, I gotta say these are a LOT harder to pirate

hehehehehehe...

[lrd99]

considering there are two Tanker versions:
the first should have the same cargo capacity of a Hauler but limited to S cargo (no price change)
the second should have the same cargo capacity of the bigger SF of that race and still be limited to S cargo (no price change)

My vote for second version. Shielded like hauler - it is a cheap tool.

[someone else]

My vote for second version. Shielded like hauler - it is a cheap tool.

there are two different ships called "Tanker", like 2 TS called "Superfreighter". have a look

consider that being limited to S cargo.... its purpose is very well defined... anyways if you think it is better I'll give it the standard TS level of shielding. (and to the second version will be given the Hauler level of shielding)

no ideas on TMs?

[Sandalpocalypse]

personally i modded _3s into Sentinels (shielding, power, hull) and _4s into Vanguards (2x rearguns, improved laser recharge)

the advantage of this is that you can actually tell the difference ingame because of the variant label

very useful for ship fetch quests

[lrd99]

there are two different ships called "Tanker", like 2 TS called "Superfreighter". have a look

Thanks.

consider that being limited to S cargo.... its purpose is very well defined... anyways if you think it is better I'll give it the standard TS level of shielding. (and to the second version will be given the Hauler level of shielding)

I don't see the meaning of "standard" tanker, if it costs as much as standard TS. So I vote for XL tankers priced as normal TS with hauler level of shielding. I prefer them to be cheap working horses with limited area of usage.

no ideas on TMs?

None at all. Haven't found any use for them as a class in my experience... Nor I can imagine a role for them in the game.

[Gazz]

I don't see the meaning of "standard" tanker, if it costs as much as standard TS. So I vote for XL tankers priced as normal TS with hauler level of shielding. I prefer them to be cheap working horses with limited area of usage.

They can be a little faster and have a massive cargo bay so they are great for hauling EC but the cargo class restriction also makes them vulnerable because they couldn't load heavy shields.
That's all in the spirit of a tanker, which are pretty vulnerable vehicles...

[lrd99]

but the cargo class restriction also makes them vulnerable because they couldn't load heavy shields.
That's all in the spirit of a tanker, which are pretty vulnerable vehicles...

Oops... I missed it. 25Mj is M class and 200Mj is L. Only 5Mj fits in "tanker". Well... It have to have possibility to load more than a couple of 5Mjs.

Another matter about shields. As far as I remember, 200Mj is available if a player have 5+ racial rating. But TS is required only 4. It's not a critical issue, but looks rough.

[someone else]

I don't see the meaning of "standard" tanker, if it costs as much as standard TS. So I vote for XL tankers priced as normal TS with hauler level of shielding.

i cannot understand this. if it says useful things please explain
I said before:
standard tanker = same cargo capacity of hauler (about twice its current cargo capacity) but limited to S cargo, has the same price of the standard TS.
bigger tanker = same cargo capacity of the bigger Super Freighter (about 5/3 of its current cargo capacity) and limited to S cargo, has the same price of the Hauler TS.

the compatible shields are a bit weak... so they need to be a bit faster (the bigger version is painfully slow) to do their work. (something around 100-120 m/s)
probably 10x5Mj shelds for the standard Tanker and 15x5mj for the bigger one.

Another matter about shields. As far as I remember, 200Mj is available if a player have 5+ racial rating. But TS is required only 4. It's not a critical issue, but looks rough.

mmmh.... maybe raising the reputation required to buy the TSs that mount 200mj shelds. Reach 5 rating for a trader type of player can be very difficult, so that may hinder them.


Looking at the smaller version of super freighter I noticed that is slower, has less cargo and a bit more shielding than the Hauler version... it looks quite strange.... a Super Freighter that has less cargo than a Hauler....

@Sandapocalypse:

29)(0001.xml) now when you buy a tanker or super freighter class ship from ship yards it will list it as tanker or super freighter for the standard size and tanker XL or super freighter XL for the larger size. now it should be a little easier to know what you are buying plus with those quest givers you'll know what size they want.

draffut fixed that with a modified 0001 file.

[Sandalpocalypse]

Ah. That works.

still, i like the variety

[lrd99]

I said before:
standard tanker = same cargo capacity of hauler (about twice its current cargo capacity) but limited to S cargo, has the same price of the standard TS.
bigger tanker = same cargo capacity of the bigger Super Freighter (about 5/3 of its current cargo capacity) and limited to S cargo, has the same price of the Hauler TS.

the compatible shields are a bit weak... so they need to be a bit faster (the bigger version is painfully slow) to do their work. (something around 100-120 m/s)
probably 10x5Mj shelds for the standard Tanker and 15x5mj for the bigger one.

Mea culpa. I'd misunderstood it completely.
It may work... But how you think about more speed tuning for "standard tanker"? Compare to "bigger" with 100-120, it may be 120-140 to compensate M4+ level shielding.

mmmh.... maybe raising the reputation required to buy the TSs that mount 200mj shelds. Reach 5 rating for a trader type of player can be very difficult, so that may hinder them.

I think nothing wrong with raising requirements. So player have to use basic transports (standard TS and tankers) before advanced versions. Moreover it brings some additional fun in the game...
And there is some other way to own advanced freighters... To be honest, 3-5 of my first TSs (include 1-2 XL) in every game usually were bought with discount and then cared by repair laser.

[someone else]

ok, and this is settled.

the next thing is:
otas fighters. They sound like cheat (Solano anyone?), still I don't want to nerf-hammer them.. they are supposed to be the best of their class, they just need to have some inconsistencies removed (like 3x25Mj shields from that Solano)

anything else? weapon compatibility more "race-specific"... more manouverability on M5... lots of things.

[JrK]

I just realised something about the tanker idea. Giving it S cargo only is going to make it useless. You should give it M cargo, but more is not required. It still can't ferry everything and mostly basic items. The problem is the jumpdrive. Seeing as you need M cargo class for it, this would mean the tanker versions wouldn't be able to mount a jumpdrive. If you ask me, that immediately makes them useless beyond uselessness. A TS without jumpdrive is a dead TS.

This also removed the 5Mj only shield problem for those ships. As it can then mount 25Mj. That said I'd propose not to give any freighter more than 3x200 and that only for the largest of the largest. I'm playing a pirate game right now, and those 5x200 ships are pretty much no game anymore. They just take too long to take down. Alternatively, you could try giving them a lower shield recharge (maybe like vanilla). They can mount the 200Mj's for protection, but the recharge is going to be slow so they only have the heavy shields to have those seconds to get away. In my game their shields recharge too fast imo. I can't get through with 2 IRE and that is BAD news.

[lrd99]

Only cloudy ideas. For OTAS... Number of weapon bays may be decreased to 4. And/or price raised (halfway to M3).
You may also prohibit using of HEPTs on any fighters with weapon generators below some value. For example, lets only 1/3 of M3s will be able to use HEPTs (hello, OOS combat!). Left plasma for M3+ and M6.
And, as I said before, a number of weapon bays may be reviewed to exclude uberfighters (terran M3 ).

As for speed, turning rate, acceleration and hull values, I'm not sure. I don't think they need to be modded right now.

Giving it S cargo only is going to make it useless... The problem is the jumpdrive... A TS without jumpdrive is a dead TS.

Hmm... Agreed.

[X2-Eliah]

You could add the Venti, Notus and Eurus to the shipyard too.. Because they are near impossible to get and have very nice models.

[Lancefighter]

Giving it S cargo only is going to make it useless... The problem is the jumpdrive... A TS without jumpdrive is a dead TS.

Hmm... Agreed.

You could give them a jumdrive as base equipment - same as 'raider' variant m5s with a installed triplex.

[lrd99]

You could give them a jumdrive as base equipment - same as 'raider' variant m5s with a installed triplex.

No way... It will be too cool for TS.

[someone else]

I was thinking of adding Coloured Engine Effects by Algoran, what do you think?

I can't get through with 2 IRE and that is BAD news.

I'll do what I can... TS are supposed to be a bit tougher now, in theory after the new version you should be able to prey upon lower classes of TS (standard version and Tankers)... anyways we'll see.

[JrK]

The coloured effects look nice. How much of a performance hit would they have though? I can imagine some people suffering because of it. Personally I'd think trails are awesome.

EDIT: after reading the engine trails thread I wonder if the merge with rebalanced ships will be compatible with cm3, since there is a different engine trails specifically for cm3. Or are you going to merge them all?

[Doc Quixotic]

I wouldn't add the engine trails to your mod directly. Right now, you are doing an amazing job fixing many balance issues. While bells and whistles may be cool, you risk decreasing the appeal of your mod by adding too many unrelated features. If you do like to add many 'extra's', consider making modules, adding only compatability or creating a full and a lite version.

As for TS, fixed jumpdrives may not be in the spirit of the game. JD are probably too rare to be standard-issue on any ship. The best solution for the tankers so far is IMHO the M-cargo-only option. Perhaps rename them to something like Bulk Carrier to make their intended purpose more clear?

By the way, many people have been complaining about the widespread use of PBG in the current X universe, especially by race fighters. Have you considered limiting their prevalence somewhat?

Keep up the good work!
- Doc

[JrK]

I noticed that for instance the Nova Raider cant use the PBG in this mod. Where I'm pretty sure I had one before I used this mod that could use it. I believe Mamba's still have PBG capability, and that suits them since the Split are aggressive.

Hmm, I'm using CM3 and in that mod PBG's don't seem like the powerdrills they were. Honestly, a part of the PBG's problem in vanilla is that is does too much damage for the energy used, it is not so much a ship problem. So is it to the scope of this mod to address this?

I'm all for the added modules idea, btw. CM3 worked like this and as long as the modules are compatible it will be useful to have them apart. To what degree is the engine trails mod not compatible with this one now?