XR vs X4

[Slashman]

I think you make a few wrong assumptions. The biggest one being assuming anyone would be saying that polish and fine tuning does not reflect sales, no one said anything along that, in fact you are correct that immersion and polish will turn a few additional sales. The question here though is how much effort (aka pizza) has to be invested for those sales and does the additional effort justify the extra income? Not truly knowing the answer, I'd guess no for X games.

Or maybe Egosoft is just plain not that good at those things. That's an answer as well. Some developers are notoriously poor at cvertain things. Like Bethesda and characters/story in the Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3 games. Well, Egosoft is pretty bad at those things as well...

A good example would be KSP, which I have been playing quite a bit lately. Its a great sandbox game, but if you are after that polish and immersion you have to grab a few mods. This symbiotic relation is IMHO the only feasible way for niche games to achieve that state of grandness, the older X games and the like managed. But if we sum up all the hours put into making guides, mods, tools, forum stickys on top of the dev time, the price for X games would be huge and it would take (like it did) years and several iterations to reach its mature state. Unless you have a few hundred people working full-time and a SC type budget for all that pizza.

Given the overwhelmingly positive and numerous reviews for KSP (22 thousand plus on Steam alone), I'd be hard pressed to call it a niche (especially looking at the number of active Steam players). And even if I did, the question to ask is: "Is the level of polish and immersion enough for that game?" Judging by its review scores and many, many happy owners, I'd say yes. XR...not so much.

Which is why XR is a needed step towards X4 (whatever that may be), given there was no way forward from X3/TC/AP. So it makes sense to take a step to the side, arguably even a step back, to open up a path that allows growth. But with all growth it takes time and even if immersion is important, one has to prioritise things given the finite amount of resources available. Now everyone and their dog/cat will have a different definition of which are the priorities and which not, but usually its those sticking their necks for it that get to decide, which should be common sense really.

MFG

Ketraar

I certainly hope that is the case. I also hope that the lessons they take from XR are the correct ones. My ongoing concern is that we have no way of knowing because they never say anything until it's too late to do anything about it.

[Luanda]

I certainly hope that is the case. I also hope that the lessons they take from XR are the correct ones. My ongoing concern is that we have no way of knowing because they never say anything until it's too late to do anything about it.

yes, i say too, i hope... though i sadly lost ever trust in ego. they have lost a customer in me thats for sure. there is only one way to make me buy anything they make and thats to fix the old flaws, AI and pathing. until that they can put any fancy crap in the next XR game... (especially with FO4 coming it will be hard to beat it) XR might have been a necessary step but it surely took its toll. and i think not im the only one thinking like this.

[Nikola515]

Only problem with me in XR is that it is just empty. Exploration don't exist and there is so much empty space with nothing in it. Some side quests would be nice too..... Another thing that is turn off for me is lack to control our stations and everything is controlled by mentally challenged manager AI They should implement X3 controls for our stations/ships and than I might start calling it fun empire building game In X3 I loved setting up complexes and telling them what to do but here in XR it is just make me angry watching manager making one stupid thing after another.... So I don't see even point building empire anymore or even playing game at that matter. Another thing that is missing and it should 100% be in the game is station universal trading And NPC station building missions just like in X3.... If they add all of that I think XR would be pretty good game. But exploration and station/ship controls should be priority in my opinion

[Silla]

So looking back at what I wrote here before... I noticed that the Linux/Mac branches do have an public bugtracker now since 3 weeks or so ..so it seems that EGO finally did make a move on this toppic ..and Im glad about it.

http://www.egosoft.com:8282/jira/secure ... s.jspa#all

..one question so remains for me ... why isn't there any for windows yet? At least im quite positiv now that they will handle the bugtracking for a possible new version in a more up to date way

PS: Even so it seems like you still have to make a new account. It would be an improvment to merge the login system of the webpage( forum) and bugtracker in the futur.

[Gligli]

after little thoughts and a new topic, some question emerges:

Aren't Ego already owner of a X-Universe related card-game?
Isn't that possible, in regard of the love of Bernd for mini-games, that a NBT could be an adaptation or kind of stuff (free mini-games for smart-phones ie)? Its really trendy nowadays.

[chrisco54]

Only problem with me in XR is that it is just empty. Exploration don't exist and there is so much empty space with nothing in it.

It's space though .

I think I have the same problems with this game as you. It just seems very limited and frustrating when I play. To me it's like this game was built for the campaign, and not for free play. Lost so much control and micromanagement in this installment.

[Falcrack]

With a new rumor about possibility of new game I just want to see what everyone thinks abut it.

Care to point out the source of this rumor? I have been looking for it since you mentioned it, but have not found any confirmation of my own.

[yoyolll]

With a new rumor about possibility of new game I just want to see what everyone thinks abut it.

Care to point out the source of this rumor? I have been looking for it since you mentioned it, but have not found any confirmation of my own.

Rumor? I thought they announced it. It's in one of the threads around here, they said in an interview or something that most of the work Egosoft is doing from now on will make it into the next game rather than XR.

[spankahontis]

Or maybe Egosoft is just plain not that good at those things. That's an answer as well. Some developers are notoriously poor at cvertain things. Like Bethesda and characters/story in the Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3 games. Well, Egosoft is pretty bad at those things as well...

Don't see anything wrong with the Storyline of Elder Scrolls, it works quite well.
It doesn't have movie sequences so I can imagine that because Rebirth has events/plot in realtime game situations that it can seem as somewhat 'On the cheap' if that's what your getting at?
The Battle at the Gate in DeVries is annoying if you're on the side of the Gate and your paused in a plot sequence while you're being shot at by PMC.
The storyline however is great and all the other sub-plots, quests and Faction storylines are great fun, coming to the end of a 3 month modding session at the moment on Skyrim.

[Snafu_X3]

Rumor? I thought they announced it. It's in one of the threads around here, they said in an interview or something that most of the work Egosoft is doing from now on will make it into the next game rather than XR.

NO THEY BLOODY DIDN'T - CBJ explicitly stated (at least 2 times) that /development/ was going into the new game, but that this game was their current work. I'll see if I can find a link, but neither of them are very old if anyone could be bothered to search..

[ezra-r]

Only problem with me in XR is that it is just empty. Exploration don't exist and there is so much empty space with nothing in it.

It's space though .

I think I have the same problems with this game as you. It just seems very limited and frustrating when I play. To me it's like this game was built for the campaign, and not for free play. Lost so much control and micromanagement in this installment.

Add me to the list.

Exploration is lacking, game feels void and automatic.

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

More "Fields of Opportunity"-like systems would be welcome.

[Santi]

Highways really killed exploration for me. Exploration should be a mix of following "breadcrumbs" with navigation buoys or ships, maps or cartography bought from NPC's and places of "interest" that you can see visually, like asteroids fields, lights and phenomena, structures and ships.

Another point is that only when you discover a place, only then, should the "fast travel" be unlocked, exploration is mostly a one time experience and once you have discovered a location, then how to get there faster takes priority over any other game mechanic.

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

I loved exploration in Farcry 3.
Bandit outposts, caves, temples. They were usually very similar, just with different loot, layout of buildings, location and one-two unique buildings, but that did the trick. What was even more worthy, was travelling to those landmarks: survival in jungle, avoiding patrols in bushes, fighting animals and collecting their skins, finding people who need your help.

Something similar would perfectly fit X Rebirth. Even better if there was an unlimited amount of locations (with certain pre-created landmark types).

[Slashman]

I loved exploration in Farcry 3.
Bandit outposts, caves, temples. They were usually very similar, just with different loot, layout of buildings, location and one-two unique buildings, but that did the trick. What was even more worthy, was travelling to those landmarks: survival in jungle, avoiding patrols in bushes, fighting animals and collecting their skins, finding people who need your help.

Something similar would perfectly fit X Rebirth. Even better if there was an unlimited amount of locations (with certain pre-created landmark types).

You mean like have the game generate them on the fly procedurally?

That would be interesting. I'm all for more points of interest.

[j-h]

You mean like have the game generate them on the fly procedurally?

That would be interesting. I'm all for more points of interest.

Isn't for example Skyrim a good example why procedurally created missions is a bad idea? The Witcher 3 has handcrafted quests and it really shows and feels but of course required lots of work.

[Silla]

I loved exploration in Farcry 3.
Bandit outposts, caves, temples. They were usually very similar, just with different loot, layout of buildings, location and one-two unique buildings, but that did the trick. What was even more worthy, was travelling to those landmarks: survival in jungle, avoiding patrols in bushes, fighting animals and collecting their skins, finding people who need your help.

Something similar would perfectly fit X Rebirth. Even better if there was an unlimited amount of locations (with certain pre-created landmark types).

If I understand you right you have something like an open world play in mind. I like this suggestion ... but it would need another or additional way to travel (at best in 3 dimensions) besides the highway system to make it really work. Additinally it will mean alot of handywork for the designers...but thats possible. However, pretty location are just an empty shell without a story behind it. Listening to talks of NPCs on station could give you a hint on whats going on arround you so that you can find those stations ..like in recent open world games ...that way you wouldn't need a highway anymore the leads you directly to the location (what kind of discovery is that to begin with ...go on rails and "dicover" ) also it would be more story dense and make use of stations as a way to picking up information.

[gbjbaanb]

I loved exploration in Farcry 3.
Bandit outposts, caves, temples. They were usually very similar, just with different loot, layout of buildings, location and one-two unique buildings, but that did the trick. What was even more worthy, was travelling to those landmarks: survival in jungle, avoiding patrols in bushes, fighting animals and collecting their skins, finding people who need your help.

Something similar would perfectly fit X Rebirth. Even better if there was an unlimited amount of locations (with certain pre-created landmark types).

If I understand you right you have something like an open world play in mind. I like this suggestion ... but it would need another or additional way to travel (at best in 3 dimensions) besides the highway system to make it really work. Additinally it will mean alot of handywork for the designers...but thats possible. However, pretty location are just an empty shell without a story behind it. Listening to talks of NPCs on station could give you a hint on whats going on arround you so that you can find those stations ..like in recent open world games ...that way you wouldn't need a highway anymore the leads you directly to the location (what kind of discovery is that to begin with ...go on rails and "dicover" ) also it would be more story dense and make use of stations as a way to picking up information.

Its easy to make a new exploration mechanism - the cruise drive. Your shields and weapons drop to zero, wait a moment for the navcom to reconfigure things, and then your engines go 10x faster. Simples. No highways needed at all then, and you can't use it to escape combat because you have no shields or weapons. not to mention the unfocussed jump drive for those random exploration sessions, only this could jump you to a known sector - not just the randoms, and many "random" sectors could be added to the map, waiting for the UFJD to find and map them.

Of course, they could have done this in X3 and not needed the new engine, but hey ho.

[pref]

Care to point out the source of this rumor? I have been looking for it since you mentioned it, but have not found any confirmation of my own.

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=

and for some clarification
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... c&start=29

[Snafu_X3]

Tks for searching those out Pref