Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'
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People that badly want to buy a game when it comes out will buy it at full price. To the vast majority, it won't matter if that game is Steam only, media only, or both. The exception are the small number of people that, for some odd reason, refuse to use something like Steam. Additional sales at discount prices through digital distribution are usually gaining sales that the game would not have had otherwise.
People that come to forums and post about games, especially one that isn't out yet, are still the minority of a player base. If Rebirth requires Steam and it loses them a few sales, I can promise you they won't care and will be laughing all the way to bank with the increased sales they get from being on Steam. It's just that simple.
It's business, and being part of a minority sucks sometimes. If you won't use Steam and Rebirth requires it, too bad.
Edit - In addition, pre-release reactions such as these also see a lot of posturing. Many of the people that claim they will never use Steam if it's required (and hence won't buy the game) will actually end up getting the game anyway even if Steam is required.
People that come to forums and post about games, especially one that isn't out yet, are still the minority of a player base. If Rebirth requires Steam and it loses them a few sales, I can promise you they won't care and will be laughing all the way to bank with the increased sales they get from being on Steam. It's just that simple.
It's business, and being part of a minority sucks sometimes. If you won't use Steam and Rebirth requires it, too bad.
Edit - In addition, pre-release reactions such as these also see a lot of posturing. Many of the people that claim they will never use Steam if it's required (and hence won't buy the game) will actually end up getting the game anyway even if Steam is required.
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I've posted the same thing earlier and gave an example of how unreliable a vocal minority is when it comes to presenting a complete picture of how things will play out.Ebyl Vampyre wrote: In addition, pre-release reactions such as these also see a lot of posturing. Many of the people that claim they will never use Steam if it's required (and hence won't buy the game) will actually end up getting the game anyway even if Steam is required.
Also, in terms of profitability from Steam sales: The answer isn't very complicated.
When a game first retails and is on the minds of everyone, it sees the bulk of its sales. With a standard box release, the decent to the bargain bin is very rapid. What Steam does with its periodic sales, is refresh the interest in the game for those people who missed it when it was big news at release or who had an interest but didn't want to risk spending full price on it.
I've seen games as old as Titan Quest shoot up to the top 10 sales list on Steam. The original dev studio for that game doesn't even exist anymore. Lots of indie titles also get a boost this way.
The major advantage is that no additional boxes are required to be produced or shipped to accomplish this. A game can continue to sell long after its normal shelf life and still make money. I had never paid any real attention to the X series until the Superbox sale last year. I currently have 251 hours logged in TC. Now I'm actually looking at buying Rebirth as well. That's how Steam works. It never lets a game vanish. And it can generate attention for an older game for an entirely new audience than those that were in on the initial release day purchase.
It does that through holiday sales, software bundles and special promotions tying different game genres together. Like offering Team Fortress or Portal 2 perks to those who buy a copy of X game(no pun intended) at a particular sale event. This is stuff that small developers and publishers would have a hard time coordinating on their own.
Its basically no-effort cash generation even after a developer is long done with a game.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.
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No problems with Steam. Its a steady platform to play my games. Never had any problems. Either way, i will buy XR.
**edit**: I always had a bad vision about Steam. Until i wanted to race Simbin games. Finally i installed Steam and never disapointed me. It has great sales and is easy in use.
**edit**: I always had a bad vision about Steam. Until i wanted to race Simbin games. Finally i installed Steam and never disapointed me. It has great sales and is easy in use.
Without solutions, there wouldn't be problems
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Ok, to think this is always allowed.......Ebyl Vampyre wrote: In addition, pre-release reactions such as these also see a lot of posturing. Many of the people that claim they will never use Steam if it's required (and hence won't buy the game) will actually end up getting the game anyway even if Steam is required.
Well, for this i would never pay full price......... 5 Euro at max for a new game.(50 Euro is for a game on a DVD with DRM that i can play as much as i want and nobody can ever stop me playing it. That said i have the control, nobody else!).Steam Subscriber Agreement wrote: Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement and the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software.
Again, im taking full risk for full price.......Steam.......keep on dreaming.Steam Subscriber Agreement wrote: 9. DISCLAIMERS; LIMITATION OF LIABILITY; NO GUARANTEES
A. DISCLAIMERS.
THE ENTIRE RISK ARISING OUT OF USE OR PERFORMANCE OF STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND MERCHANDISE REMAINS WITH YOU, THE USER.
btw, new euro consumer rights are on the way:
https://www.era.int/cgi-bin/cms?_SID=ne ... kel=122654
im looking in a future where Steam offers alot more security, service, quality in all........
greetings
burneyx
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So 'most people here say they buy discounted' is solid evidence but actual data gathered from the primary source is not.apricotslice wrote:Is that really 2.5 million people or several hundred thousand people and 2 million spambots ?Chris0132 wrote:You may be interested to know that according to steam, there are two and a half million people logged into it right this second.
You cant go by what the program says is people logged in. They want you to think more people use it than actually do. And most of them dont care that the majority of registrations are not legit.
I had this argument with an admin on a forum once. He claimed the number of registered users as a justification for something, and then subsequently couldnt dispute that the actual number of users was a tiny fraction of that, and that most of the registrations had never posted because they couldnt. (Registration didnt have an effective spambot filter, but the forum itself was password protected. So Spambots could create as many registrations as they wanted to, just couldnt post.)
Now, I havent tried to register with steam, so I dont know what they use to keep out bots, but I seriously doubt what they do is adequate. And why should they care ? 2 million bots all trying to do something is actually good for their marketing image !
You really are looking for any excuse aren't you.
Go do some actual research, the number of users fluctuates by about two million people on a daily basis, with a regular, repeating pattern, probably because of the existence of the pacific ocean. When it's day there more people on the planet are asleep, and thus the number of logged in users drops, when more landmass is in daylight the users go up again, I don't think that has anything to do with spambots.
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That same clause applies to ALL computer-game media. Including all your fancy titles on DVDs with their DRMs. Don't selectively discriminate - if you hate that stuff, then say goodbye to all games.Burneyx wrote:Well, for this i would never pay full price......... 5 Euro at max for a new game.(50 Euro is for a game on a DVD with DRM that i can play as much as i want and nobody can ever stop me playing it. That said i have the control, nobody else!).Steam Subscriber Agreement wrote: Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement and the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software.
Example: Battlefield 2 eula:
sourceEA grants you a personal, non‐exclusive license to install and use the software for your
personal, noncommercial use solely as set forth in this License and the accompanying documentation.
The term of your license shall commence on the date that you start to download, install or otherwise
use the software, and shall end on the earlier of: (i) the date that you dispose of the software; (ii) the
date that all applicable intellectual property rights (including, without limitation, copyright) in the
software expires; or (iii) EA's termination of this License.
Or how about GTA4?
sourceLicensor hereby grants you the nonexclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to use one copy of the Software for your personal non-commercial use for gameplay on a single computer or gaming unit, unless otherwise specified in the Software documentation. Your acquired rights are subject to your compliance with this Agreement. The term of your license under this Agreement shall commence on the date that you install or otherwise use the Software and ends on the earlier date of either your disposal of the Software or Licensor’s termination of this Agreement
And, oh, look, here's Starcraft 2:
sourceTHIS SOFTWARE IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. BY INSTALLING, COPYING OR OTHERWISE USING THE GAME (DEFINED BELOW), YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO INSTALL, COPY OR USE THE GAME.
Last edited by X2-Eliah on Fri, 28. Oct 11, 12:58, edited 2 times in total.
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That has nothing to do with it, the argument is that loss of sales due to steam is a laughably insignificant number compared to the number of sales you'd gain simply by using steam, let alone spending your store-money on a few extra days on the steam frontpage, maybe one of the big banner ads they do.apricotslice wrote:Burneyx, thanks. That puts the final nail in the coffin.
Chris0132, no research needed. I wouldnt touch that subscriber agreement if you paid me to.
GAME OVER.
Please stop just saying random things you dislike whenever a counterargument becomes more complicated than making up stuff.
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X2-Eliah wrote:That same clause applies to ALL computer-game media. Including all your fancy titles on DVDs with their DRMs. Don't selectively discriminate - if you hate that stuff, then say goodbye to all games.Burneyx wrote:Well, for this i would never pay full price......... 5 Euro at max for a new game.(50 Euro is for a game on a DVD with DRM that i can play as much as i want and nobody can ever stop me playing it. That said i have the control, nobody else!).Steam Subscriber Agreement wrote: Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement and the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software.
Well, reality is, i have my DVD's at home, can play whenever i want and nobody is able to kick me out with an total loss of my money.....
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"Reality is" that nobody is going to boot you off steam, unless you do something stupid like trying to run pirated games on it or something.Burneyx wrote:X2-Eliah wrote:That same clause applies to ALL computer-game media. Including all your fancy titles on DVDs with their DRMs. Don't selectively discriminate - if you hate that stuff, then say goodbye to all games.Burneyx wrote:Well, for this i would never pay full price......... 5 Euro at max for a new game.(50 Euro is for a game on a DVD with DRM that i can play as much as i want and nobody can ever stop me playing it. That said i have the control, nobody else!).Steam Subscriber Agreement wrote: Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement and the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software.
Well, reality is, i have my DVD's at home, can play whenever i want and nobody is able to kick me out with an total loss of my money.....
If you're just going to pretend the EULA does't exist because you find it incredibly improbable anyone would act on it, you can do that on either platform.
Last edited by Chris0132 on Fri, 28. Oct 11, 13:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Actually they could probably do it without that, they just probably won't bother as it would involve actual legal action.X2-Eliah wrote:Unless it is a cd-key-only drm and involves any sort of internet-connection, then actually they can.Your disc means as much as a rolled up toilet paper... Legally and principially.
'They probably won't bother' is the general user response to EULAs of any sort.
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Exactly... So why this singling-out of Steam? That platform has no impact on what publishers specify in their EULAs.
In fact.. just to push the knife.. Anyone played X3:TC here? What about you, apricot? Did you agree to this?
Now, children, can we stop saying that 'steam is bad because of its eulas'? Because that's rubbish. Distributers of ALL games do this, not just steam.
In fact.. just to push the knife.. Anyone played X3:TC here? What about you, apricot? Did you agree to this?
Source? Your game install folder\Documents\License_EN.txt.Koch Media EULA for X3:Terran Conflict wrote:Koch Media Ltd
END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (EULA)
LICENSE
This is the Koch Media Ltd License Agreement. ("The Agreement") will govern your use of all Koch Media products contained in this package. Deep Silver is a division of Koch Media.
GRANT OF LICENSE
Koch Media hereby grants you, and you accept, a limited license subject to the terms and conditions contained herein to use the software recorded on the CDROM.
You may only use the product on a single computer or its temporary replacement, or on a subsequent computer. If you wish to use the product on more than one computer, you must purchase an additional copy of the product. You may not either temporarily or permanently transfer sublicense your rights to use the product under this Agreement without the prior written consent of Koch Media Ltd.
The Manual and the Software are copyright and are the property of Koch Media Limited with ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Now, children, can we stop saying that 'steam is bad because of its eulas'? Because that's rubbish. Distributers of ALL games do this, not just steam.
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That's really fairly standard, as far as I know it stems from the fact that games are information, and the thing about information is that you can make copies of it.
So, just like anything you can make copies of, what you actually buy when you buy a copy of it, is a LICENSE to use the information in your personal life. It's why buying a book does not allow you to republish its contents in a derivative work, it's why buying a movie does not let you use it a stock footage.
The hard copy you have has absolutely no legal value whatsoever.
Seriously read the first page of any book you own, it's got more or less exactly what that license has in it.
So, just like anything you can make copies of, what you actually buy when you buy a copy of it, is a LICENSE to use the information in your personal life. It's why buying a book does not allow you to republish its contents in a derivative work, it's why buying a movie does not let you use it a stock footage.
The hard copy you have has absolutely no legal value whatsoever.
Seriously read the first page of any book you own, it's got more or less exactly what that license has in it.
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I have no problem with that.X2-Eliah wrote:Did you agree to this?
Koch Media EULA for X3:Terran Conflict wrote:Koch Media Ltd
END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (EULA)
LICENSE
This is the Koch Media Ltd License Agreement. ("The Agreement") will govern your use of all Koch Media products contained in this package. Deep Silver is a division of Koch Media.
GRANT OF LICENSE
Koch Media hereby grants you, and you accept, a limited license subject to the terms and conditions contained herein to use the software recorded on the CDROM.
You may only use the product on a single computer or its temporary replacement, or on a subsequent computer. If you wish to use the product on more than one computer, you must purchase an additional copy of the product. You may not either temporarily or permanently transfer sublicense your rights to use the product under this Agreement without the prior written consent of Koch Media Ltd.
The Manual and the Software are copyright and are the property of Koch Media Limited with ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
It says I own a cdrom and can use it on one computer at a time.
No problemo.
Steam says I own nothing and have no rights to anything. Big problem.
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No, it says you are permitted to use the software, you don't own the software, you are permitted to use it. That's what a license is.
Also the all rights reserved bit probably means they reserve the right to retract the license at any time for any reason.
Steam itself isn't a license to a game, it's a license to use the steam service, which you don't pay for, and so obviously they are under no obligation to continue to provide it.
When you buy a game on it though, especially from a third party developer, they generally have their own EULAs, although they are unlikely to be any more favourable than that one.
Also the all rights reserved bit probably means they reserve the right to retract the license at any time for any reason.
Steam itself isn't a license to a game, it's a license to use the steam service, which you don't pay for, and so obviously they are under no obligation to continue to provide it.
When you buy a game on it though, especially from a third party developer, they generally have their own EULAs, although they are unlikely to be any more favourable than that one.
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Would you rent a car for full price and give it back whenever they want you to with no money back?Chris0132 wrote:No, it says you are permitted to use the software, you don't own the software, you are permitted to use it. That's what a license is.
Also the all rights reserved bit probably means they reserve the right to retract the license at any time for any reason.
I guess not......
So my question is, why should i do this with software?
@apricotslice, mate your welcome

greetings
burneyx
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Sorry but steams bans user all the time because they don't like the software on there system/hardware of the system/payment issues not all banks are as fast/isp quirksChris0132 wrote:
"Reality is" that nobody is going to boot you off steam, unless you do something stupid like trying to run pirated games on it or something.
So to say you only get banned for cheating/other illegal stuff is rubbish.
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Because you agree to do that with every book, film, game, and replicable commodity you buy.Burneyx wrote:Would you rent a car for full price and give it back whenever they want you to with no money back?Chris0132 wrote:No, it says you are permitted to use the software, you don't own the software, you are permitted to use it. That's what a license is.
Also the all rights reserved bit probably means they reserve the right to retract the license at any time for any reason.
I guess not......
So my question is, why should i do this with software?
@apricotslice, mate your welcome
greetings
burneyx
You just choose to pretend that you actually own most of them.
Taking exception to one particular vendor of said commodities because you're arbitrarily afraid that they might shatter your delusion when none of the others have so far, makes no sense whatsoever.
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With a car you pay the full cost of a car. And went you rent it. You only pay a share of the costBurneyx wrote:Would you rent a car for full price and give it back whenever they want you to with no money back?Chris0132 wrote:No, it says you are permitted to use the software, you don't own the software, you are permitted to use it. That's what a license is.
Also the all rights reserved bit probably means they reserve the right to retract the license at any time for any reason.
I guess not......
So my question is, why should i do this with software?
@apricotslice, mate your welcome
greetings
burneyx
When you buy software you don't pay the full price of the software. Only a share of it. So in a way. How is it different ?
Especially when games cost considerable more than a car the the price you pay is less than u would pay for a car rent