The big GamesCom interview with Bernd - Comments

[NLS]

In my older posts I thought all gameplay theories presented are irrelevant, since I expected the game to be more or less finished (or scrapped which still makes the theories irrelevant), but now from the interview I deduct that large parts of the game are yet to be formulated, so... fire up the theories and suggestions, you guys may actually REform the final game (which seems it is far after all).

[Ketraar]

Removed or significantly reduced :
player ship choice
travel freedom
plot choice/timing
equipement/upgrade choice

Added or significantly expanded :
building choice
tactical choice (ship subsystems)

Overall, a very big loss for a small gain.

So you list stuff arbitrary? Or have you any info on how big the universe will be that we dont know of? That travel freedom assumption is a taken out of the blue just to try prove a failed point once you realised there were not that many negatives to summarise, same goes for plot as you have 0,01% info on that.

As for equipment choice, well I gather we get a ton MORE freedom (hints to hardpoints and their possible compilations, drones and missiles, yet not even all is mentioned), thats 3 out of 4 listed point gone.

Economical choices are HUGE compared to existing games, thus the possibilities great.

So the only real issue is the one ship thingy, which is a big change I understand, but undermining the rest over it is at least incorrect. I for one give more weight to (finally) improvements to the economy, since I liked the one-ship policy in XBTF.

Just saying the usual outcry for the end of times type of predictions based on little to no information is something that gets me itchy.

MFG

Ketraar

[Texhnolyzed]

The X series never was excellent. It has always been highly flawed and badly designed. In terms of depth it's not really what many make it out to be either...

X Rebirth is pretty much bound to be the best in the series, if they really do create it from ground up without recycling stuff from the previous games.

[BigBANGtheory]

From what info is available, freedom will not be an issue, even sure some "freedoms" may be cut, but others (and imo far more important ones) are added

Let us see that, shall we ?

Removed or significantly reduced :
player ship choice
travel freedom
plot choice/timing
equipement/upgrade choice

Added or significantly expanded :
building choice
tactical choice (ship subsystems)

Overall, a very big loss for a small gain.

As for depth, well you got to be really blind to not see that its promising to be MUCH more immersive than TC/AP ever hoped to be (mind I like TC/AP).

Depth and immersion are not the same thing. One can make an immersive yet very simple game. Besides, immersion is highly subjective.
I do not need cockpits, interiors and other "fluff" to get immersed. I just need the tools to play the way *I* want.

Not sure I agree with your assesment there Geek, but granted there maybe a core element of gameplay suited to your playing style that you feel has been compromised.

Personally I felt a bit robbed with TC in not giving me the tools I wanted, Rebirth is sounding like a more well rounded game to me with a more inner detail and few gaps missing (already discussed).

[bluenog143]

I'm looking forward to X:R a great deal to be honest. When I do buy X:R and download it I will try it for myself to see what it's like. The interview was great and was clarifying on several points but there's nothing like playing the game itself.

[Geek]

So you list stuff arbitrary?

There is a difference between a game feature and a player freedom.
I excluded some features because they were not influencing freedom. I am honest in making this list, but feel free to challenge it, on a reasonable basis.

Or have you any info on how big the universe will be that we dont know of? That travel freedom assumption is a taken out of the blue just to try prove a failed point once you realised there were not that many negatives to summarise, same goes for plot as you have 0,01% info on that.

Now these are blatant lies.

We *have* detailed information about the universe and navigation.
No SETA (or warp drive/cruise engines whatever) and highways means we will not wander away from places they connect (even more than with gates). Oh, and we can not create new highways either. So yes, the player is litteraly railroaded. Size is not the question here.

We have enough information about the plot in regards to player freedom.
First, it is mandatory. Second, many (if not most) ship upgrades and equipement will be revealed through the plot only.

[Alan Phipps]

Maybe it would have a slightly calming effect if we consider that the early and probably most linear parts of the plot(s) are intended as the tutorials that many X games have been said to be missing. I suspect that such parts of the plot(s) will be avoided in replays through some method such as unlocked starts.

[Ketraar]

Where our old universe was a simple arrangement of cubic sectors, we now have a hierarchy of really stellar proportions allowing a more realistic and varied universe than before.

And nowhere it sais you HAVE to restrict your self to the Highways, in fact in the Q/A Topic Bernd said you are free to move around much (more) like before, so there is no rail-roading, and sure not less freedom.

MFG

Ketraar

[Killjaeden]

No SETA (or warp drive/cruise engines whatever) and highways means we will not wander away from places they connect (even more than with gates). Oh, and we can not create new highways either. So yes, the player is litteraly railroaded. Size is not the question here.
.

Where you able to create gates in X3? No. Was there anything outside the sectorcenter in X3 worth checking out? No to 99%. Will the highway prevent you from traveling out? No. Did you regulary fly far away from the sector centre/ tradelanes? I'm pretty sure no, because there is no reason at all. If you just want to be far away from stuff you can still do that in XR.
Where you able to interrupt gate/OA travel to check out what's inbetween? No.
I don't see how that is more railroading then in X3. Actually, as you can interrupt the lower highways there is even more freedom (and they said there will be something worth checking out inbetween).

Depth and immersion are not the same thing. One can make an immersive yet very simple game. Besides, immersion is highly subjective. I do not need cockpits, interiors and other "fluff" to get immersed.

They add to the immersion, they don't create it alone. So it is more immersive with cockpits and crewmembers. It is not mandatory, it helps alot however. A Pen&Paper RPG player might tell you that graphics wheren't necessary for the game to be immerse for him

[Geek]

Was there anything outside the sectorcenter in X3 worth checking out? No to 99%.
Did you regulary fly far away from the sector centre/ tradelanes? I'm pretty sure no, because there is no reason at all.

That is quite a bit of an exageration. In X3 most derelicts and free containers, even several gates are way off the center.

Will the highway prevent you from traveling out? No.

First, you can not exit super highways.
Second, you can go very far from local highways in a reasonable time.
So yes, the new navigation system is far worse than in previous games.

[Aragosnat]

Depth and immersion are not the same thing. One can make an immersive yet very simple game. Besides, immersion is highly subjective. I do not need cockpits, interiors and other "fluff" to get immersed.

They add to the immersion, they don't create it alone. So it is more immersive with cockpits and crewmembers. It is not mandatory, it helps alot however. A Pen&Paper RPG player might tell you that graphics wheren't necessary for the game to be immerse for him

Only if the people belive they can do a good job at it. Which for some would mean they want it to be like a FPS style game as the devs went through all the trouble to making nice looking 3D models.

.... And you can do things to gain those discounts. For example, if you scan a station, if you fly over its surface, you might unlock additional discounts. Maybe you found something – and whatever this is gives you a two percent discount on purchases.
Those are small stories: Yisha will deliver a short comment that explains why you gained the discount.

Does the scan a station part to get discounts sound like we are blackmailing the station owner? For myself. Anyone without sector police licsence (unless a pirate like sector, then the pirates could be police) would either be a competator or a pirate. And such a response would be either call the cops to deal with them and or if possable cap or blow them to bits before they get away. As realistically who wants someone taking a look at what you have when ever they want? Unless there is a vaild reason someone can....

True that part of might not get implemented at all. While it is nice that we might get something from scanning it should not mean we get to avoid having some negative impacts which may be immediate or could happen later on. With possably a way to reduce or remove the negative aspect. Example: Scanning in an Argon core sector without a licsense would mean a drop in rep and having the cops come after you.

I do like the idea that if we work / buy / sell for said station we would get a discount.

@Iifrit Tambuur-san: Thank you for asking if we can push the co-pilot out the airlock as well as doing the translation and interview.

[henkbein]

In my older posts I thought all gameplay theories presented are irrelevant, since I expected the game to be more or less finished ...

Exactly my thoughts.
Reading the German transcript makes me feel like X-Rebirth is still in a somewhat early development. I bet on a release halfway 2013 .

[Sibilantae]

As for the "Sequel" thingy, Bernd repeatedly mentions this all over the place: X-Rebirth != X4

Many people understand this as Rebirth will be built from scratch, from a technical point of view. And really no one objects this.

However it seems Egosoft is also willing to trash the core gameplay (namely freedom and depth) with it, and that is far more disturbing. Just because something is new does not mean it is good.

And please, do not tell me the game is not released yet. We have enough information too get an idea of what XR will be. Some of us have played other games too, and know from that experience where things are heading (dumbing down for the masses).

I disagree that core gameplay is being trashed. In part, it depends on your definition of core gameplay. Besides this, the rebuild is clearly more than purely technical.

If they rebuilt the gameplay to be exactly the same, then we would have, in effect, an X4, which Bernd did say (as Ketraar pointed out) is not what XR is supposed to be. From the very beginning, it's been fairly clear (to me at least), that the link between this and previous games is the shared (and drastically changed) universe, and some linking story elements. Excuse my skepticism in this matter, but it seems that some of us here are suffering a case of "It's different, now it sucks", on the basis of "dumbing it down for the masses". Did you not read what they're doing with trade? How they're addressing combat?

Sure, this may not end up working , but the fact is, we *shouldn't* judge it in light of previous games' gameplay - not until it's released. Sure, throw an "I told you so" if the game disappoints - but have some sense until then.

[Sibilantae]

I really have to work on my double-posting.

Was there anything outside the sectorcenter in X3 worth checking out? No to 99%.
Did you regulary fly far away from the sector centre/ tradelanes? I'm pretty sure no, because there is no reason at all.

That is quite a bit of an exageration. In X3 most derelicts and free containers, even several gates are way off the center.

Why shouldn't this be the case around "inhabited areas" in X:Rebirth? Derelicts and free containers etc? In principle, we will apparently have a more freeform system than we did in X3.

First, you can not exit super highways.
Second, you can go very far from local highways in a reasonable time.
So yes, the new navigation system is far worse than in previous games.

Let's look at X3:
First, you could not exit a wormhole between two gates (i.e. you couldn't terminate travel mid-jump).
Second (I think you meant to say "can't"): We couldn't go very far from sector centres in a reasonable time.
So yes, the Rebirth navigation system seems to be more freeform, with fewer restrictions. To me, it seems considerably less arbitrary than sector design in X3 used to be.
Furthermore, while we can't exit superhighways, we can do so for "local" highways - *and* we can maneuvre around in it to adjust our speed, according to Bernd. The implication, to me, is that we are no longer in a position where, when SETA is active, we can only stare at the screen; instead, during long travel times, we have a choice between letting the highway carry us, and working to maximise our speed.

I'm very impressed with the navigation system, and I hope to find it *both* more immersive *and* deep (..."depthful"?). There isn't much sign that this won't be the case.

To me, it really seems as if the biggest reduction in freedom is in the reduction of flyable ships to only one (drones notwithstanding). I can see why there would be annoyance here. It may be that it'll work better than the alternative for combat - and, considering the number of times I've seen people complain about the ease of personal combat in X3, a focus on improving its complexity on Egosoft's part would be welcome, no?

[Santi]

Freedom to travel and explore without nothing to see or experience is no freedom just a bore. SETA and Jump Drives are a gimmick, they don't give you any freedom, they just shorten what otherwise will be a very tedious journey. X series got away with it because of the amazing art design for stations and ships, but after a while sectors are pretty much all the same.

In Rebirth, Egosoft is actually grouping several sectors into one big Stellar System, with different locations, stations, colonies and industrial complexes, it makes travelling outside of highways feasible and rewarding, exploring have a real meaning. And you have several Stellar Systems to explore, each with a different lay out.

And you can create highways, it is one of the upgrades for stations, by the way, you create stations using resources, you don't buy modules any more, I see that as proof that Rebirth will be more complex that games before.

[Killjaeden]

That is quite a bit of an exageration. In X3 most derelicts and free containers, even several gates are way off the center.

And you personally went around and scouted for those things in every sector? I don't think so. Gates belong to tradelanes, that's why they are not "off". Local-highways already exist in X3, except that they don't give a speed bonus. Ever watched NPC traffic? they all travel the same route until they reach their destination sector. And with a highway system the problems of autopilot crashing into oncoming traffic or roids in the middle of the sector are gone without even touching AI. It's a clever solution. Dumbing down... suure

Will the highway prevent you from traveling out? No.

First, you can not exit super highways.
Second, you can go very far from local highways in a reasonable time.
So yes, the new navigation system is far worse than in previous games.

And you where able to exit jumpgate routes or OA's, right?

[Fame]

Bernd:
Ah, Environment Events. Um. Yes and no. I can not say anything final yet, we definitely have alone in the plot very large events, which are universe changing to say it a bit overblown, but ... there are some things we are working on, which I don’t know sure if they will be in there already in version 1.0, we of course have to bring out someday a game and can’t continue forever working on it.

This quote gives me great hopes about Rebirth. A changing universe isn't a dull one.

Although I'm struggling a bit with the exact meaning of this..."...changing to say it a bit overblown..." ?
I'm also wondering, in this 'new' Universe how big is 'big'?. Are the 'systems' going to be joined in a seamless fashion, or is it something like... ...you use superhighways to get from one system (solar?) to another. Sorry to sound a bit dumb but I'm trying to visualise the whole concept of the new universe.
One thought for example:- will there be a finite edge or boundary to the game 'world' or is it infinite....or will it 'seem' infinite.

Good questions. I haven´t toughed about that.

If the universe is changing it may seem bigger than actually it is, i think . But being "infinite" i don´t know if it is a good cenario in a game .....

You could in theory overcome the edges if you fly in circles or in another way returning to the starting point after a long time ( i hope this sentence made some sense).

That Boron caracter in TC is something , especially when he says that something, "possible some tiny little thing is broken".... and then you see what he needs to fix it.

Fame

[GrieferBastard]

I like the travel improvements. I'm a big fan of anything that condenses activity in a realistic and immersive way, which this sounds like it would do.

I like the idea of subsystems in general. My concern is that it sounds like it's making cap ships more like slow moving space stations and going towards a narrower set of options for encounter resolution. That doesn't enthuse me.

Plot related limitations don't concern me as I expect mods will be out quickly to change that.

The new space stations sound amazing and are the part I'm excited about.

The real killer for me though is the ships. I could stand with having one ship and using drones to remote pilot other ships, to a degree. Yet the final result seems to be (and I fully admit that we're reckoning without our host here until the game is released) the loss of the exact reason I play the X games at all.

The ability to produce and control, directly AND indirectly, my own fleet of ships in 3rd and 1st person is virtually unique to the X games, most effectively in the X3TC/AP games. To create and control, directly and indirectly, ships of all sizes and calibers with whatever loadout I can scavenge, beg, borrow or steal and use to accomplish whatever goal I wish. It richly reflects how I've played the game and adds a lot of character. No other game does that so well for me.

The loadout limitations, ship limitations, these are not just 'features' to me. They are why I play and what I play for. I'm sure the game will be amazing for what it's designed for and I'm sure the audience it's aiming at will like it. The stinging bit is that it's becoming more and more clear that said audience is not me.

What I hate the most is that sense of lost interest that's been more and more common lately. Loved Mass Effect, ME2 far less so, never bought ME3 and never will. Loved Dragon Age, DA2 was announced and was very specific in leaving out everything that I'd enjoyed in the original. Never bought it, glad I didn't. The open world 'do what you want how you want with what you want' games are going away.

This sinking sense of disappointment is uncomfortably familiar. A lot of great eye candy, some nifty new features, yet that brilliant laissez-faire open world heart of it torn out.

Unfortunate. Perhaps, uniquely of late, this won't be like that. Sorry if some of us struggle to get our hopes up though.

[Sibilantae]

I like the travel improvements. I'm a big fan of anything that condenses activity in a realistic and immersive way, which this sounds like it would do.

I like the idea of subsystems in general. My concern is that it sounds like it's making cap ships more like slow moving space stations and going towards a narrower set of options for encounter resolution. That doesn't enthuse me.

Plot related limitations don't concern me as I expect mods will be out quickly to change that.

The new space stations sound amazing and are the part I'm excited about.

The real killer for me though is the ships. I could stand with having one ship and using drones to remote pilot other ships, to a degree. Yet the final result seems to be (and I fully admit that we're reckoning without our host here until the game is released) the loss of the exact reason I play the X games at all.

The ability to produce and control, directly AND indirectly, my own fleet of ships in 3rd and 1st person is virtually unique to the X games, most effectively in the X3TC/AP games. To create and control, directly and indirectly, ships of all sizes and calibers with whatever loadout I can scavenge, beg, borrow or steal and use to accomplish whatever goal I wish. It richly reflects how I've played the game and adds a lot of character. No other game does that so well for me.

The loadout limitations, ship limitations, these are not just 'features' to me. They are why I play and what I play for. I'm sure the game will be amazing for what it's designed for and I'm sure the audience it's aiming at will like it. The stinging bit is that it's becoming more and more clear that said audience is not me.

What I hate the most is that sense of lost interest that's been more and more common lately. Loved Mass Effect, ME2 far less so, never bought ME3 and never will. Loved Dragon Age, DA2 was announced and was very specific in leaving out everything that I'd enjoyed in the original. Never bought it, glad I didn't. The open world 'do what you want how you want with what you want' games are going away.

This sinking sense of disappointment is uncomfortably familiar. A lot of great eye candy, some nifty new features, yet that brilliant laissez-faire open world heart of it torn out.

Unfortunate. Perhaps, uniquely of late, this won't be like that. Sorry if some of us struggle to get our hopes up though.

Well sir, there may yet be hope in moddability =)

[The_Mess]

Was there anything outside the sectorcenter in X3 worth checking out? No to 99%.
Did you regulary fly far away from the sector centre/ tradelanes? I'm pretty sure no, because there is no reason at all.

That is quite a bit of an exageration. In X3 most derelicts and free containers, even several gates are way off the center.

And yet, for the most part, all the core stuff was located within the gates, rarely out of all the sectors in the vanilla game was there anything of interest to check out.

Will the highway prevent you from traveling out? No.

First, you can not exit super highways.
Second, you can go very far from local highways in a reasonable time.
So yes, the new navigation system is far worse than in previous games.

Have you even been following the info we've had? Tradelanes can be disrupted and we'll probably have the ability to exit and enter the in-system ones when we choose so. While exiting super highways that travel between systems seems a bit of a strange thing to grump about, as typically outside of a systems outer most orbital objects (like the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud) there's nothing but empty space. Heck, we need very large resolution or very long exposure times to even pick up Trans-Kuiper objects due to the share sparsity of them.

As for ingame speed limits, Bernard hasn't yet confirmed what's going on there (iirc), but given the removal of seta, it's a no-brainer that for gameplay reasons something like a cruise drive or something similar to boost travel speed is involved.