Beta Test....Part 5

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Fri, 21. Mar 03, 20:19

X-Warrior wrote:Also, why should an M1 be more expensive than an M2 ? It's basically a TL with less cargo space and a few guns. I think some people are overestimating the power of an M1. Better to buy a TL and an M2 if prices go like some people want!

I think the situation is even worse than that. Speaking from an X-T perspective, M1 class ships are SLOW. At least TLs can get you across a sector in less time than it takes to make a cup of coffee, and if the M2s are also similar to X-T (the Paranid M2 had a maxed top speed of over 500 m/s, IIRC!) then they'll be even faster. That makes your "TL + M2" idea the best route to take, unless TLs have been seriously nerfed in X2 (e.g. made slower, given less shielding, etc).

Snokid · Post by **Snokid** » Fri, 21. Mar 03, 21:10

Al wrote:
Snowyhands wrote: Im impressed by the game, but steels report's are just losing a little of the excitement. They were good the first he was wriing them, now they don't have the enthusiasm of the previous ones!
Snowy dont be so bloody miserable. Steel is doing this in his own time. I bet if he didn't say anything you'd be whinging that there was no info available about X2. If you've nothing good to say dont bother at all

Al

why?that's comforting to know. If you don't like to eat that "special-soup" your mom makes, who cares, just bear it. Im only letting Steel know that, yes he's doing an excellent job in informing us about X2, which is greatly appreciated, but I also liked that he put some lovin' into the meal. If anyone wanted to read something that was plain we would just ask him to just put info down on the paper as statistics. Steel WANTS to make it an exciting read- that's why he wrote so much. Everyone on the dev team is doing this for fun and out of love!! I don't see why giving a little criticism is going to ruin their lives. Just because I didn't just say "STEEl this is wonderful, I love you, can I have your babies" doesn't mean that I don't thank him for doing this

** I definately didn't find tthis comment appropiate. it seems you're a hypocrite as you don't follow your own advice: "if you don't have something nice to say....." I certaintly didn't find this comment pleasant

Post by **X-Warrior B AS** » Fri, 21. Mar 03, 21:12

pjknibbs wrote:Speaking from an X-T perspective, M1 class ships are SLOW. At least TLs can get you across a sector in less time than it takes to make a cup of coffee, and if the M2s are also similar to X-T (the Paranid M2 had a maxed top speed of over 500 m/s, IIRC!) then they'll be even faster. That makes your "TL + M2" idea the best route to take, unless TLs have been seriously nerfed in X2 (e.g. made slower, given less shielding, etc).

hmmm, yeah, I forgot about the speed they'd better speed up those M1's, or they'll just be collector's items, not serving any purpose.
But in X2 there will probably be limits as to how many fighters a ship can carry. Perhaps an M1 will be able to carry a lot more ? That would at least give them one advantage over the TL.
They definately need more speed.

And Xenon M2's were the fastest in XT at over 600m/s iirc.

Snokid · Post by **Snokid** » Fri, 21. Mar 03, 21:20

crunn wrote:
Al wrote:Its a fair point. I thought the TLs were reasonably priced in Xt. They were expensive but I got my first one after 14 hours game time. It was hard but perfectly achievable.
64 Million is (or should be) a lot of time and playing. X2 should follow the Xt tradition where you basically have to earn everything you buy. If you want something special, it will cost more and hence take longer to get.

those who used Hex cheats to get TLs etc very quickly generally became bored with the game.

Al
Absolutely

I want owning capital ships to be something to aspire to.
Something that requires some hard work.

14 hours ?? well done !! (I think I was in the 50's, but I wasn't going all out for it)
I don't want to be able get one after only 20-30hrs.
Makes them seem cheep.

isn't this what I was implying? I don't want to have to work for like months either just to get a capital ship. But i don't want to get one in a week... 64 million isn't a bad price but it could be put up a few notches. Then again, as someone said, we barely know anything as to how the economy will work, or how much capturing will pay off. I don't see why people get so angry when someone posts something that, not harsh, but a "reality"

MasterHonk · Post by **MasterHonk** » Fri, 21. Mar 03, 22:14

I have not played X-Tension so I dont know how long it takes somebody in the X-Universe to get that much money but I know that MOST PEOPLE will not be hardcore gamers like the ones egosoft developers will find in this forum. So make this game accessible for a broad audience otherwise egosoft will not make much profit. Let working people have the chance to have access to most of the games content without having to go to a flight school first. Or having to spend all of their life playing this game ! This I think is the problem of most fan forums. The people u meet are hardcore gamers a small percentage of the people that will be responsible for the economic success.

just me two cents

Michael

By the way when it comes to turn based strategy games even i am a hardcore player so @all "fans" take no offense.

Tiberian Commander · Post by **Tiberian Commander** » Fri, 21. Mar 03, 23:53

Steel - (The cockpit view in the game).

I was wondering when you look around in the cockpit do you see a slight movement when you look up down L or R, to create a 3D effect.
I don't know what the name for this is but human eye's are not central.
So when you look up the objects closer to you like the cockpit view in front of you appears to go down a bit and if you look down it goes up a bit.
In other words you can see around objects slightly wich creates the 3D effect for realism.
Could this be in the game or if not, have a think about it for a later game like X3.

scritty · Post by **scritty** » Sat, 22. Mar 03, 00:42

The effect is called "parallax isometric deformation"

. On a flat surface the illusion of 3d by moving a forground object faster than the background object it passes over.

No idea whether egosoft use it in the game..that's just what it's called.

BTW..I'm new, and X-Tension (which I got on import from Germany last week) is the best game I have bought for a very long time (and I'm a very old gamer).

Cheers

Clarker

CanadianBrit · Post by **CanadianBrit** » Sat, 22. Mar 03, 01:05

Just one small question:

Can this thing navigate gates or do you just "jump" straight to sectors?

pixel · Post by **pixel** » Sat, 22. Mar 03, 01:32

Welcome Scritty!

Steel · Post by **Steel** » Sat, 22. Mar 03, 01:38

The Devil wrote:Just one small question:

Can this thing navigate gates or do you just "jump" straight to sectors?

All ships can go through gates (gates are bigger).

Steel

Tiberian Commander · Post by **Tiberian Commander** » Sun, 23. Mar 03, 03:35

Get back up there - bump

silentWitness · Post by **silentWitness** » Sun, 23. Mar 03, 05:28

I think 64 Million is very steep!

Anything over that for what basically is the hull is way too steep!

Maybe for a full weapon and shield loadout! but not for the basics only! it's all well and good if you plan to go around capturing everything or spend the first few months building up a trade empire the like of which the x universe has never seen... but some people want 20 (to 30) or so stations and to be able to afford one this year without cheating!

Otherwise the khaak missions will be the onlyway to get one!!!

Snokid · Post by **Snokid** » Sun, 23. Mar 03, 06:48

there is no real argument here as we don't know how the economy will work. If it is basically like x-tension you can have this ship un 1 or two days if you want. Which may not be all that bad if you need it for a mission. But considering this guy's position as being a thief I don't think you will get into the action all that quickly and thus ou own't really need a captial ship that early in the game. Im sure it won't take a whole year to get 100 million credits, but I don't want to abuse the system and have a whole fleet of these things as soon as I get the game unless it's neccessary- meaning the game requires/forces you two for a mission or the sort. What would there be to brag about if we could get some in like 5 days?

It has nothing to do with being a "harcore x'er"! It has to do with gamer's pride

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Sun, 23. Mar 03, 07:43

silentWitness wrote:I think 64 Million is very steep!

Anything over that for what basically is the hull is way too steep!

OK, since you believe this, you obviously also believe you should be able to go and buy the hulk of a supertanker (no engines or other stuff, just the hull) for pocket change. Why not try it? We'll wait...

Oldman · Post by **Oldman** » Sun, 23. Mar 03, 07:53

MasterHonk wrote:I have not played X-Tension so I dont know how long it takes somebody in the X-Universe to get that much money but I know that MOST PEOPLE will not be hardcore gamers like the ones egosoft developers will find in this forum. So make this game accessible for a broad audience otherwise egosoft will not make much profit. Let working people have the chance to have access to most of the games content without having to go to a flight school first. Or having to spend all of their life playing this game ! This I think is the problem of most fan forums. The people u meet are hardcore gamers a small percentage of the people that will be responsible for the economic success.

just me two cents

Michael

By the way when it comes to turn based strategy games even i am a hardcore player so @all "fans" take no offense.

Good Morning

A good debating point.

The big problem is where or how do you cater for the 'masses' and also for the hard core space sim player at the same time, is it possible to do both?
Even for long term players of X, some of the features in X2 will be considered too easy or too hard...or from another point of view....as is shown in this thread, the balance of cost of items in the game will not suit everybody.

If you 'dumb down' the game to cater for the casual player then you might have instant sales for a short period of time, but the steady trickle of players/buyers that you might have had in the future could be lost.

Hard core players....if you had maybe (just for a debating point) half a million players or 'buyers'..over a long period of time that supported the game this would be preferable I would think than a quick 'flash in the pan'?

Given that Egosoft have plans for an online game in the future and maybe that (at the moment) their emphasis is in 'space sims' perhaps having a good 'back up' of hard core space sim players might be preferable...I don't rightly know

I think for a game such as X2 you will probably get a large folowing from the 'space sim' fans, whether you can 'keep' them playing the game is another matter...that is a difficult thing to do, I think (IMHO) that X2 will definately keep the hard core space sim fan happy....plenty of content it seems, but at the same time keeping the casual player happy?.....
I suppose you need to be interested in a space theme orientated game to buy X2 in the first place

Difficult question to answer....

Oldman

The_Abyss · Post by **The_Abyss** » Sun, 23. Mar 03, 19:17

Of course, it may be possible that we'll be 'loaned' a capital ship earlier in the game when the Khaak present themselves, so everyone will get a try early on - you just might have to give it back afterwards!

Hellterra · Post by **Hellterra** » Sun, 23. Mar 03, 19:38

Give it back - No Way keep it

crunn · Post by **crunn** » Sun, 23. Mar 03, 21:18

How about a difficulty level setting when starting a new game.
Easy/Medium/Hard

BUT this will only affect the buying price of capital ships and stations.
The level setting will not alter anything else. Not the prices of other resources or difficulty of the AI. Too much work redesigning things I expect.

Eg.
Easy - (Titan = 64M) (SPP = 600K) (etc.)
Medium - (Titan = 100M) (SPP = 1M) (etc.)
Hard - (Titan = 200M) (SPP = 2M) (etc.)

Thus whether you're the casual, devoted, or hardcore player you can choose.

(I'd probably go with medium)

fltcapt Hawkeye · Post by **fltcapt Hawkeye** » Mon, 24. Mar 03, 01:52

they need to be expensive if every1 had m1 and m2 would be so over the top and maybe u need to have a group of staions to keep it going maintanance and stuff

HSeldon · Post by **HSeldon** » Tue, 25. Mar 03, 18:22

Being a noob around here and to the X games I´ll just dribble a polite little pool of drool into this corner over here ok ?

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Beta Test....Part 5