Is this version going to include a game?

[The Mule]

Wraithcat's basic point is X-BTF was not the game for him and he was not going to give X-T the chance to improving his gaming experience. A shame.

That is his personal choice.
It is also his personal choice to spend a lot of time and effort telling us all about it.

He seems to wish to leave the boards now, presumably because his posting was not greeted with warm applause.

His attitude is entirely consistent, the game was not right the first time so he gave up on it saying it was plain rot.
Our replies were not just right for him so he has given up saying we are just rot.

Who loses out with that attitude?

[Deleted User]

Did I shag someone’s grandmother, or something?

"No, its some would-be smart-ass from the Freelancer board who decided to come here and do what some feckwit from here did over there.”

“Wait, it’s coming to me.., yes, it’s possible if you have no imagination and want things laid out on a plate, railroaded through a plot.

But to launch into all these, frankly, silly criticisms which in every word shows you barely played it at all before discarding it, in such an ill-mannered and to judge from your limited vocabulary and feeble grasp of grammar, uneducated way is just pointless.

Worse than pointless it advertises to the world that you are a narrow-minded, judgemental, arrogant, rude teenager, I’d guess around 13? Now perhaps that act just wows everyone in the playground but here, where adults gather, it is just embarrassing, embarrassing not only for you, but for those of us who squirm at the memory of how we were when we knew everything.

Get some perspective in your life, learn to be open to possibilities and experience, learn the difference between a Big Mac and Cordon Bleu cookery and realise things can’t be all things to all people.

You don’t have the attention span, or to judge from your laughably inaccurate comments, the basic grey matter required to play anything more sophisticated than Quake.

Fine. Stay away from games that demand more, but don’t feel you have to deal with the frustrations your inadequacies cause by hunting out people who differ from you in capacities and interests and berating them.

Ranting impresses no-one, reason does. Honestly, all that ill-informed ranting does is make you seem a jerk. And no-one takes the opinion of a jerk seriously so you just wasted your time posting.”



ElectricMonk wrote:
Wraithcat wrote:
>>...the people who programed the IA were idiots.


>>That may be so, but at least they could spell a two-letter word correctly.


Excellent riposte

It's so good to see that you are able to discuss things without making jackass assumptions about me. And that last "riposte" was so damaging to everything I've said...

Firstly. Yes, I wrote my post to be deliberately provocative, which is why it reads as it does. However, it is still an accurate reflection of the game as I played it. As one poster noted, all my comments are a reflection of those made when the game was initially released. I was active on the boards then, and would suggest that anyone who was not around then check out the complaints and feedback recieved.

Just to dispell a few myths and personal assumptions. Firstly it seems that many people on this board have a bit of a Neapolionic Complex towards Freelancer. Frankly, I couldn't care less. I am not, as was people have asserted "some would-be smart-ass from the Freelancer board" and in fact am not even a member of that board. Freelancer isn't released in Australia until next week at the earliest. Yes, like everyone, I downloaded the demo, which I enjoyed alot. It is, however, as has been rightly pointed out by some people here, a more limited "shooter" type game, than was initially intended.

As to my age, and other traits. I am a professional, university educated person, who has been a member of the Australian Defence Force for over 15 years. I just don't happen to think that a person's argument should be assessed on their spelling and in fact advocate the phonetic reformation of English spelling.

I played the original "Elite" on the Amiga and loved it and played my way through most of the Wing Commander Series, and Privateer. I bought both Elite2 and Privateer 2 and didn't enjoy them at all.

Given this, I think I am as well qualified to comment on X-BTF as the next person. The fact is that in my view, and the view of many others, X-BTF just didn't deliver. X-tension might have, but as I pointed out, I am certainly not about to throw good money after bad on a product of dubious value. There are many games out there to buy, so why waste money on something that has already dissappointed?

The fact is, that as far as I am concerned X-BTF WAS a boring game. Everything took far too long to do, and the universe was simply "bland". Yes, the original Elite was a similar sort of game (worse if you consider all the effort you went through, just to kill youself docking...) but IIRC I was playing that game in 1988, on an original Amiga 500. I for one would hope that the intervining 10 or so years would have resulted in some conceptual leaps in the space sim.

To say the universe was two dimensional is as far as I am concerned, and understatement. Nothing I did, beyond that in the missions, seemed to have an impact, or ellicit a response. Everyone ignored me and not once did any of my industrial centers, or factories get attacked, much to my disgust, as that would have made things interesting. In fact, nothing I did seemed to impact on the universe as a whole and there was no sence of the universe being "alive" with people and activity.

Even when I completed the main mission, IIRC the Xenon were still there, so there wasn't even any real point in completeing the missions. And yes, I did complete the whole missions, and get my wonderful reward from the Argons. But what an anticlimax. When I save the known universe, I would at least hope for a bit of singing and dancing in the streets. A bit of "Hey, I know you!!", as I travel around. Of course the only indication from the game that you had achieved it was a little message, easily missed, as I did, that said something along those lines.

As for those who think it hilarous that I payed $100 for the inital release of the game, I would suggest the following:

1. Check where I live. Its a strange place, that doesn't use American Dollars!! (Shock Horror!!!)
2.Then maybe check the typical exchange rate from Australian Dollars to American Dollars.
3. Slap yourself on the forehead and say, "Doh!!"

FYI new release games here have generally hovered at the $80-100 dollar mark for many years now. Mind you, in the days of the venerable TRS-80 (Galactic Empire and Trader!! Yeah!!) that new release games were only $30.

Anyway, enough for now.

I'll answer specifics later in another post.

Bye

Wraithcat

Toy soldier wrote,

That is why I am angry. End quote.
Yawn.

[Deleted User]

I'm sorry that I offended you all, by calling your dearly beloved game rubbish and the people who released a Beta "Mongrels".

Clearly it really offended some people here. However, I stand by my comments as to the quality of the game released, even as I appologise for my intemperate attitude. The game promised much and by all accounts didn't fix it until X-Tensions. That is why I am angry.

I don't however appologise to the likes of young Steve Mill, and others who sought to engage in personal attacks. I attacked the company who released it, and the game, not any individual. If people think my response to others attacks and belittling of me was over the top, or for some reason take my comments about the game and company personally, then I suppose you'll just have to learn to deal with it.

I just don't see any evidence of the claims that Egosoft fixed everything and the world was a happy place. They released a grossly flawed game and then decided to make more money with the addon that fixed many of the issues that should have been fixed before the game was even released. Frankly, I don't care about the addon features that the X-Tensions introduced. What I do care about is that those elements of it that were introduced to fix the original bad design of the original release should have been available as a fix to X-BTF. If that had happened I would have bought X-Tensions without a doubt. But, as I have demonstrated, I don't buy from companies that have demonstrated bad faith.

I frequently buy addons to games I like, such as Starcraft, Diablo 2, Morrowind and others. However, it beggars belief that I would actually buy an addon to a game that I thought was lousy as some of you seem to imply.

The patches to X-BTF didn't fix any of the game issues that I am aware of, although it might be the case that the last one (ie 1.95) was released after I had already given up on the game. (My disc version is 1.8 )

For those who say that I am wasting my time here, and it is just like whinging about quake 1 on the quake 3 boards or starlancer on the freelancer forum, I disagree. The key difference is that X2 hasn't been released yet and I want the developers to be damn sure that they shouldn't pull the same stunt twice.

Once it has been released, then I'll direct my comments to it, if I think it is rubbish, then I'll say so. If it fails to deliver on what is promised, I'll say so. If it is the best space sim ever (not that hard an ask...) then I'll go dance in the streets. Then I'll say so.

But don't expect me to pay more to fix it in an "addon" if it sux.

Anyway, I've said my piece, and I'll leave you all in your happy land of cream, lollies, sunshinny rainbows, Spellcheckers and English Teachers and try not to trample the flowers on my way out.

Bye!!

PS. Flame away, if you like, but I won't be here...

PPS. Steve, thanks for reading.

Thanks for caring...

Mr angry wrote,
That is why I am angry.

Yawn.

[Deleted User]

I would just like to say, "Hi and thanks" to those persons who welcomed me to the boards!!

But unfortunatly, I've already heard most of the Cat jokes but thanks for showing you care...

I love these little fellas!!

Na i dont like these smilies this one is the best wouldn't you agree


Yawn.

[The Mule]

I must be the only person that has not heard all the Cat jokes, actually I have not heard any. Maybe I should pay more attention in future, then again...

[RustiSwordz]

When i first bought XBTF i got frustrated at the lack of SETA. I got fed up and didnt bother again until XTension add on came out.

Then i loved it. I gave XBTF another chance. And i was pleasently surprised. Never looked back since.

[Grimm]

For those who say that I am wasting my time here, and it is just like whinging about quake 1 on the quake 3 boards or starlancer on the freelancer forum, I disagree. The key difference is that X2 hasn't been released yet and I want the developers to be damn sure that they shouldn't pull the same stunt twice.

Then join the devnet, and save us all the long winded whining. If you want to make sure that the developers aren't making any mistakes, you're posting in the wrong forum. I'm sure Bernd, Markus and the rest would love to hear what you have to say, provided they don't ban you for your first post there. Try being constructive, instead of being whiny, and you'll get a much better response from the community.

[RustiSwordz]

For those who say that I am wasting my time here, and it is just like whinging about quake 1 on the quake 3 boards or starlancer on the freelancer forum, I disagree. The key difference is that X2 hasn't been released yet and I want the developers to be damn sure that they shouldn't pull the same stunt twice.

Then join the devnet, and save us all the long winded whining. If you want to make sure that the developers aren't making any mistakes, you're posting in the wrong forum. I'm sure Bernd, Markus and the rest would love to hear what you have to say, provided they don't ban you for your first post there. Try being constructive, instead of being whiny, and you'll get a much better response from the community.

yup! couldn't agree more

[Snokid]

one last gasp before this thread dies.

From what I know, the reason for BTF sluggish looks was not Egosoft's fault. It was actually the result of a publisher who was either worried about the game or just didn't care about it/wanted money.
If Egosoft had their way, XBTF would have had the improvements of x-tension, which would've been an overwhelming superb game...unfortunately they were rushed.

but now you see that they are taking their time as no ones rushing them through it (too much) Also, if they were just looking to make money on this game, they would've released it a long time ago with bugs and a jacked up. did they? Im sure they won't jack the price up to $50 bucks- although they deserve it and the game is, hopefully, well worth it.

I've heard all of the cat jokes

[ external image ][ external image ]

[The Mule]

sounds like a conspiracy theory.

[crunn]

Hi Wraithcat

Welcome to the forum.

Just wondering, if you hated X-btf with such intense passion as you seem to be suggesting,
Why did you not only complete the game but continue to play long enough after the end of the story line to notice that the Xenon kept respawning ??

IIRC it was around the 600hours mark when I finally stopped playing (which was shortly after the story line ended)

600hours (give or take) is a very long time to spent on a game you despise, is it not ??

[Commander Jamieson]

Welcome Wraithcat.

For all your infromation - It looks like Wraithcat is Australian (Oh no not another one.) and XBTF would have cost about 100 Australian Dollars.

IO

You leave Australia out of this post, we are not that bad or mean

For your info, when I bought XBtF over 3 years ago here in Australia, it cost me A$79.99 full retail price here. Perhaps he is from some another country using Dollars as their denomination? There are plenty countries who do.

Edit: That teaches me not to read all pages first before posting a reply. I can see now that WC (hey, this could be apropriate if I would not have a sense of humour) does indeed come from Australia. There are people and there are people here, all kinds of them.

As for your comments to rubbish a developer like EGOSOFT re releasing XBtF (or XTension for the same reason but not mentioned by you) in the state it was in when released. ES are developers and makers of the game. Publishers are the marketeers and "publishers" (doh!) of the game and these two NEVER see eye to eye re state of the game for release. Hence XBtF was released too premature, this was NOT ES fault, if you want to blame someone blame THQ, the publisher of XBtF (and Xtension).

Hence the release of XBtF was in the state it was released, haven't you heard of Frontier - First Encounter? This is an exact case of developer versus publisher, where the publisher (NOT the developer!) released the game for various reasons premature and bug ridden. Similar szenario with ES versus THQ!

If you read through some of the code, sound and speech files of XBtF plus examine the game with a hex editor you will find plenty of items and features in it which the developers wanted in the game and were short shafted by the developers THQ because they wanted to see a return of their money advances and released XBtF when they released it. They (THQ) did NOT give a fig at which state the game was at release, they wanted to see a cash return at all costs. For THQ it did not matter that XBtF was incomplete or we as buyers and players were not happy with the initial release.

Doesn't this ring a bell with some of the recent game releases? FL is not what it was ment to be initially, Unreal2 is not what it was ment to be initially. See a pattern here. Publishers are most likely the villains as they work with a static release date and if a particular feature is not finished yet, to heck with it, whether we as buyers or payers of the game like it or not.

For your info, EGOSOFT was then at release of XBtF a very small and dedicated developement team of just FIVE people or so. To make for us Space Sim addicts a Space Sim which ignited the same spark and imagination as Elite, FE2 and FFE did for me (and many other space sim fanatics as well) I thank EGOSOFT for that. No other previous game since then beside the above mentioned titles did this for me and believe me, I must have played 95% of these relased in between too.

Now EGOSOFT are still a small developer possibly a shade larger now with numerous contributors to the developement of the next release of X2 - The Threat, which might hit the shelf in a few weeks time. These unsung contributors do this for free, be they mission builders, ship data base improvers at al. Why do you think they spend their time to do this? The simple answer is, to make a particular Space Sim better than it already is.

I pity you, first of all bringing up a subject of a 4 year old game and critizising it now. If you say you frequented previous X forums, than you MUST have seen the reasons why XBtF was released in the state it was released. Then your motive of posting your post now might become clear.

How dare you bring up all these old hats, chewed over and disected over all these years here in the X forum. You have not even played XTension yet to see what XBtF should have been. This is a current game, albeit released over 2-3 years ago exactly bug ridden and premature but was it EGOSOFTs fault? There THQ, the publisher set a permanently fixed release date which they would not want to shift. I was one of the six original beta testers for XTension, we found ALL the bugs the game was initially released with and were horrified to learn that THQ anounced XTension is going gold and getting released in a couple of weeks time while we were still beta testing. The developers wanted to iron out the bugs but THQ wanted the release.

NO game EVER will be perfect as one can not please ALL people ALL the time.

But give credits where credits is due. EGOSOFT could have taken the money from the release of XTension and could have run, like Gametek did with FFE. But what did EGOSOFT do? Then you would have seen that EGOSOFT took critizism of X to heart and improved it out of sight. I admit, XT is not perfect, hence we get X2 - The Threat but rubbishing EGOSOFT for ALL the faults of X is just not on.

I, as a moderator on this forum could have closed this thread here or even deleted it but in fairness to free speech this thread will stay open unless it does get personal. You were so close to it with your attacks of EGOSOFT and I am ashamed to say you are an Australian. Possibly just by quirk of fate but NOT in the spirit Australians are known all over the world. I think fairness and just observations are part of it as Australians are known for. I will not go into other details you posted, other posters here gave proper answers to your post already.

No, I do NOT work for EGOSOFT but I do love Space Sims which are in the spirit of ELITE and keep the flame alight. Even if they are called Freelancer.

Cheers

[padre]

dear mr wraithcoat, i pi--ed off a few people with one of my early post's, if i remember right (who are you again) classic. but they are a forgiving lot, who welcome all input good and bad, it gives their fingers exercise , to err is human to forgive is god like. i hope, or i'm still in the dog house.
have u tried (edge of chaos) (tachyon the fringe) i liked em.

[HiTekHick]

I finished X-BtF in less than 90 hours (game time - not RL time). No cheats or anything funny - just using the resources out there (maps). It was a good final battle - but with the 2x125MW shields and the best guns, it was almost boring. I ran through the Xenon space like a madman and completed many of the missions before they were even given to me. The biggest ones I remember was the power cell sector and the 6 destroyer sector - that was fun!

After it was done, I proceded to destroy then replace various plants in the universe.

Now, with XT, I'm just getting started. All I have to say at this time is "XT ain't that ol' X-BtF!" The ability to purchase more ships and jump between them is awesome - in station or out in space even. Anyone that is looking for more that Elite!+ feel will probably like XT.

One of the few drawbacks is the inability to transfer your backups from BtF to XT. I would have loved to have kept a lot of things and kept the universe more syncronized - instead of starting out a noob again with minimal creds (granted you can trade in your first ship for a very nice layout on a freighter). Or maybe have explained that, "Due to the fact that the pilot was looking forward to leaving the X-universe, he gave all his factories and creds up hoping to come back to a warm welcome someday."

I'm now starting to see the fun that people had with XT and I may have a new game that has hooked me. At least I now have something to play with while waiting on X2. I should have bought X-Gold in the first place from EgoSoft... *sigh* Live and learn.

[The_Rock]

I completed many of the missions before they were even given to me.

That's impossible...

[HiTekHick]

Ok - so the mission wasn't complete, but the parameters were met. So when they would give me a mission and I realized I already did it (destroyed something or other - like the EC sector), I would then re--contacted them and they said "Good job on that mission". I didn't even leave the sector.

[crunn]

...it was around the 600hours mark when I finally stopped playing...

I finished X-BtF in less than 90 hours...

My, that was quick.

Though I did abandon the story line part way through to build a huge number of factories. Before eventually going back to finish. I flew into the final battle with 200+ wingmen, turned out to be considerable overkill. but fun all the same. I did the final battle several times out of interest, fewer wingmen and alone.

[HiTekHick]

...it was around the 600hours mark when I finally stopped playing...

I finished X-BtF in less than 90 hours...

My, that was quick.

Though I did abandon the story line part way through to build a huge number of factories. Before eventually going back to finish. I flew into the final battle with 200+ wingmen, turned out to be considerable overkill. but fun all the same. I did the final battle several times out of interest, fewer wingmen and alone.

200+!?! I went solo - I was already kicking stations' butts and there is only one I was not able to destroy by myself (Xenon Shipyard). I focused on making as much money as I could within a short time - so I had decent speed (somewhere about half the speed mods I could get), and decent turns and the best guns - and I was flying around with 2x25MW shields. I was a one-man terror out in space. Took on those 6 Xenon destroyers by myself too, which is why it was so fun - I couldn't catch them, but if they stopped - they were mine! But in fact - I never had a wingman.

[crunn]

200+!?! I went solo - I was already kicking stations' butts and there is only one I was not able to destroy by myself (Xenon Shipyard). I was a one-man terror out in space. Took on those 6 Xenon destroyers by myself too, which is why it was so fun...

Yea, the destroyers were fun.

I guess I was expecting a much more difficult fight for the final battle.
But as I said, I reloaded and did it again solo.

The speed that 200+ can take out the entire Xenon home sector is quite impressive.

[sai-ku]

Welcome Wraithcat.

For all your infromation - It looks like Wraithcat is Australian (Oh no not another one.) and XBTF would have cost about 100 Australian Dollars.

IO

You leave Australia out of this post, we are not that bad or mean

For your info, when I bought XBtF over 3 years ago here in Australia, it cost me A$79.99 full retail price here. Perhaps he is from some another country using Dollars as their denomination? There are plenty countries who do.

Cheers

He must be from New Zealand... who else would attempt to sully a great Australian city! Ba.... hate those auzzie haters!!!