Destroyer AI. Relatively simple solution to one of the biggest x4 problem

[lllaxmatist]

X4 is a great game. With many great features existing and planned (looking for 8.0). But Large ship AI is notoriously bad. Many players are agree, that it is a huge problem (notorious several hundred Steam forum tread about ai agrees with me). I am not talking about ships collision, flying physics model etc. I am talking about Destroyer AI.
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Problem: It seems that Destroyer AI is over-tuned. AI tries to choose optimal attack position, go there and attack from it. Plus different skill levels may reduce chosen ai attack range. This over-tuned AI works great only with K and I. But destroyers are not fast ships. All they do is getting obliterated by graviton turrets of K or by the player if he fights non Xenon factions.

Solution. Add "Stupid AI" mode. No need to complex strategy,
If enemy L+ ship is in range -> stop -> turn with main battery face front -> shoot from max range.
If S or M ship -> ignore, that is work for turrets, not main guns.

If you wanna make smart engage distance calculation, use turrets with "capital only" or "capital first" modes.

P.s. And please, fix OOS main guns DPS. Is is surprisingly low compare to IS.

[flywlyx]

If enemy L+ ship is in range -> stop -> turn with main battery face front -> shoot from max range.

Due to some unknown limitation, the AI can’t obtain the real-time position of its enemies. So, the “dumb” AI you’re describing is already far too advanced for X4’s engine.

[lllaxmatist]

Due to some unknown limitation, the AI can’t obtain the real-time position of its enemies. So, the “dumb” AI you’re describing is already far too advanced for X4’s engine.

Is can update position surely, maybe not realtime. Look closely at K. It's AI always tries to position your ship under it's belly, so additional turrets may work.

[flywlyx]

Is can update position surely, maybe not realtime. Look closely at K. It's AI always tries to position your ship under it's belly, so additional turrets may work.

If it can’t get real-time position data, it simply can’t aim accurately. If you’ve tried the Maingun fix mod, you’ve likely noticed the improvement it brings. One key adjustment it makes is reducing the position update interval to 0.5 seconds—the engine’s upper limit. But honestly, that’s still far too slow; imagine trying to play an FPS with a 500 ms delay.

[Raptor34]

I can see why it doesn't update in real time per ship. But I wonder what the performance impact would be if they only update it in real time for a fleet AI, which then issues orders to the fleet. After all, the game is clearly already tracking the ships in real time, because it's a real time game after all, so I assume the issue is the many ships querying for that real time info.

[flywlyx]

I can see why it doesn't update in real time per ship. But I wonder what the performance impact would be if they only update it in real time for a fleet AI, which then issues orders to the fleet. After all, the game is clearly already tracking the ships in real time, because it's a real time game after all, so I assume the issue is the many ships querying for that real time info.

Physics, graphics, AI, maps, they are probably running in different time frames, and sync with each other with certain time intervals. It is probably too late to change any of these.
In X5, Egosoft should seriously consider separating low-attention AI processing and high-attention AI processing. Many NPC traders sit on 30-minute hold orders that nobody cares about, while the 10-second delay on capital ships generates a huge number of complaints.

[Hanariel]

If enemy L+ ship is in range -> stop -> turn with main battery face front -> shoot from max range.

Due to some unknown limitation, the AI can’t obtain the real-time position of its enemies. So, the “dumb” AI you’re describing is already far too advanced for X4’s engine.

Godamit... I'm quiting, can't believe I wasted so many hours on this game... if I knew this I would quit early....

[CBJ]

A wildly inaccurate claim posted by another player is probably not the best basis for quitting the game!

[chew-ie]

A wildly inaccurate claim posted by another player is probably not the best basis for quitting the game!

Apparently this is based on this post of one of the Egosoft devs. (link was posted in an ai related topic @Steam)

[CBJ]

If so, then that is a gross misinterpretation of what the developer actually said.

[flywlyx]

Godamit... I'm quiting, can't believe I wasted so many hours on this game... if I knew this I would quit early....

You might want to try the main gun fix mod first — many players are already happy with the results. Plus, low-attention combat is far less affected by this kind of issue.

If so, then that is a gross misinterpretation of what the developer actually said.

What’s the developers’ perspective on the firing position update intervals? Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I’m specifically referring to

move.attack.object.capital

the X4 FAQ describe it as:

1c. Once the ship is in firing position, it will remain there until it re-evaluates the firing position after a period of time. This time depends on the size and speed of the target. For capital ships with no boost available this time is a random value between 30 and 90 seconds, otherwise it is based on the size and speed of the ship with possible values ranging between 1 and 15 seconds.

This test also clearly shows that the Ody E isn’t moving continuously — it frequently pauses, while its target keeps moving without interruption.

[mr.WHO]

The only problem I ever had with destroyers (and Asgard, Erlking) is that AI constantly act, like it can't decide if it's want to focus on using the main guns or main turrets, changing it's mind every 10-15 seconds and going suboptimal on both.

It's irritating to try to go through waypoint gymnastics, loops and hoops in order for AI to simply "point your f*cking nose at the target and FIRE".

I really, really, REALLY wish we could have manual setting that we could simply tick to tell ships: "always point your nose on target unless main guns are destroyed".


...I'd even just got with "always point your node at target no matter what" (since it's rare for DD and BB to loose their main guns).

[lllaxmatist]

I have looked and tried main gun fix mod. If is a huge improvement.
With it destroyers evolve from "joke floating in sector" to "usable combat vessel".

But there is a big problem: "modded" status.
For people who play game with many starts is in no big issue, but for me who play in one main save (from 4.0) setting it to modded means i will be locked from future stuff(achievements, online elements) or will lose progression if have decided to continue unmodded backup.

Man gun fix is imperfect, but compared to vanilla it is a huge difference.
I think, that it is really big issue, if some game content (ai destroyers) is not working out of the box and requires mod to access it.
For me personally issue is so huge, that i will easily trade all of 8.0 diplomacy and other new stuff for in-house destroyer fix.

[chew-ie]

Man gun fix is imperfect, but compared to vanilla it is a huge difference.
I think, that it is really big issue, if some game content (ai destroyers) is not working out of the box and requires mod to access it.
For me personally issue is so huge, that i will easily trade all of 8.0 diplomacy and other new stuff for in-house destroyer fix.

I agree! Even as a signed mod would this would be a godsend