Suggestion: Single-gun fighters get radar range increase

[Falcrack]

I would like to have a bit more reason to use the single gun fighters (like Elite, Kestrel, Jaguar, Pegasus, etc) by giving them a radar range boost. Maybe 60 km instead of 40 km, or something like that. The justification could be that they only have one gun because they need the power or space for a stronger sensor.

Having the radar range extension would give me more reason to fly these ships for exploration purposes, which should be their natural role. Right now, they feel really useless and lacking in purpose.

[Raptor34]

Probably more you can do. But it's a good and simple start.

[RoverTX]

On a related note I have a mod that increases radar range for all scouts to give them a specific fleet duty and making them worth fielding.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1902196111

[enyophaze]

pretty sure you can extend radar range for any ship through research at the PHQ.

[Casishur]

It would be most effective if the larger the ship, the greater its radar range should be.

Ships should get a few fixed special features themselves.
E.g. stealth bomber with pre-installed non-expandable reduced enemy detection range (which is currently already possible in the form of a ship modification.)

This would help to avoid using only one type of ship later on, as it will eventually become mainstream due to firepower, shield and maneuverability.

[vvvvvvvv]

The justification could be that they only have one gun because they need the power or space for a stronger sensor.

That falls apart immediately, because the only ship with 60km range is Hyperion. For 80km we have Sapporo, with a HUGE sensor array. Or whatever that spinning thing is supposed to be. Largest 225km sensor range is a gigantic station dish. That implies that seeing far in the universe is difficult and requires gigantic sensors. Far seeing scouts go against that.

With such constraints, a scout with huge radar range would need massive disadvantage. Like it could only have 200 hull, no shields and no weapons, and shipmods would be forbidden.

A better approach was in Rebirth. There, larger ships had larger range, and military ships had more range than civilian ones. Makes sense, because more juice allows bigger radar, and the best radar is given to the military.

[Raptor34]

The justification could be that they only have one gun because they need the power or space for a stronger sensor.

That falls apart immediately, because the only ship with 60km range is Hyperion. For 80km we have Sapporo, with a HUGE sensor array. Or whatever that spinning thing is supposed to be. Largest 225km sensor range is a gigantic station dish. That implies that seeing far in the universe is difficult and requires gigantic sensors. Far seeing scouts go against that.

With such constraints, a scout with huge radar range would need massive disadvantage. Like it could only have 200 hull, no shields and no weapons, and shipmods would be forbidden.

A better approach was in Rebirth. There, larger ships had larger range, and military ships had more range than civilian ones. Makes sense, because more juice allows bigger radar, and the best radar is given to the military.

"just" redo all the sensor ranges then. Frankly speaking most if not all fighters don't need good sensors. Nerf them across the board to 20km. Scouts get 40. Frigates could get 50. Gunships and corvettes would have 30km.
Also this all ignores the gigantic elephant in the room that is adv sats anyway... Imo rather than there being one adv sat, they should as well be a whole sensor network. Consider that currently the AI, excluding BUC, already ignores your sats for reasons. Them actually being a whole network of micro sats instead of one single target would make it more logical too.

[vvvvvvvv]

Frankly speaking most if not all fighters don't need good sensors. Nerf them

Players become unhappy when things they had are taken away.
You're proposing to take things away.
Why would other people support your proposal?

[alt3rn1ty]

I kind of agree with the OP, I also never use small single gun fighters basicly because Yasurs exist.
Give it Shroud for -80 radar visibility and +20 radar range (with a lucky roll of the dice), plus its speed makes an excellent Explorer/Scout ship, that can also put up a good fight with its default weapons.
Would love to own a MKII or MKIII Yasur, but was never blessed with one during the previous Ventures/MTS as I couldn't devote enough time. One day, hopefully.

[Raptor34]

Frankly speaking most if not all fighters don't need good sensors. Nerf them

Players become unhappy when things they had are taken away.
You're proposing to take things away.
Why would other people support your proposal?

Looking at what Egosoft has done, I don't really need their support. The devs just need to consider whether it fits, their vision or whatever.

[flywlyx]

The issue isn't that the scout's range is too short—it's that the S and M ships have ranges that are too large. I'd prefer a full rebalance of radar ranges across all ship classes. Smaller ships should depend on larger or capital ships to cover greater distances. Given the current map scale, a more balanced setup might look like: S - 10 km, M - 20 km, L - 40 km, and XL - 60km.

However, this would limit players’ ability to explore using S/M ships, which clearly doesn’t align with Egosoft’s design philosophy. It seems more suited as a mod concept rather than an official game change.

[vvvvvvvv]

The issue isn't that the scout's range is too short—it's that the S and M ships have ranges that are too large. I'd prefer a full rebalance of radar ranges across all ship classes. Smaller ships should depend on larger or capital ships to cover greater distances. Given the current map scale, a more balanced setup might look like: S - 10 km, M - 20 km, L - 40 km, and XL - 60km.

As mentioned before, that's how it worked in rebirth. It is possible that they were in a bit of hurry, that's how everything ended with 40 km range. Kinda like we used to have L miners with 40 docked ship capacity.

[flywlyx]

As mentioned before, that's how it worked in rebirth. It is possible that they were in a bit of hurry, that's how everything ended with 40 km range. Kinda like we used to have L miners with 40 docked ship capacity.

I just checked Roguey’s X Rebirth site—most ships in X Rebirth had a 12 km radar range, and in version 4.7, carrier range was increased to 32 km. That might just be a placeholder value.

Since ships also reduce their detectability, it would actually make sense to lower the detectable range for S-class ships as well.

[Raptor34]

The issue isn't that the scout's range is too short—it's that the S and M ships have ranges that are too large. I'd prefer a full rebalance of radar ranges across all ship classes. Smaller ships should depend on larger or capital ships to cover greater distances. Given the current map scale, a more balanced setup might look like: S - 10 km, M - 20 km, L - 40 km, and XL - 60km.

However, this would limit players’ ability to explore using S/M ships, which clearly doesn’t align with Egosoft’s design philosophy. It seems more suited as a mod concept rather than an official game change.

Beyond the scope of this thread, which is why I previously suggested that stuff like sensor ranges and capacity should be something you can change by swapping out internal parts, rather than the current system where those are tied to the ship mod system, and are also something you can only buff.
Though Egosoft would need to decide if they want to continue with the old upgrade system of straight mk.1, 2, 3 and buffs only. Or move more towards a system of tradeoffs as seen in the weapon systems, where there might be reasons you don't just put all your biggest guns on it.

[flywlyx]

Beyond the scope of this thread, which is why I previously suggested that stuff like sensor ranges and capacity should be something you can change by swapping out internal parts, rather than the current system where those are tied to the ship mod system, and are also something you can only buff.
Though Egosoft would need to decide if they want to continue with the old upgrade system of straight mk.1, 2, 3 and buffs only. Or move more towards a system of tradeoffs as seen in the weapon systems, where there might be reasons you don't just put all your biggest guns on it.

The modification system could still include trade-offs. For instance, a mod might offer +100% weapon cooling or +100% radar range—changes like these would clearly distinguish a combat ship from a scout. As it stands, the current modification system feels too insignificant.
The real issue is that this kind of balancing was never built into the game’s core design, and implementing it properly would require significant work across multiple systems.

[Raptor34]

Beyond the scope of this thread, which is why I previously suggested that stuff like sensor ranges and capacity should be something you can change by swapping out internal parts, rather than the current system where those are tied to the ship mod system, and are also something you can only buff.
Though Egosoft would need to decide if they want to continue with the old upgrade system of straight mk.1, 2, 3 and buffs only. Or move more towards a system of tradeoffs as seen in the weapon systems, where there might be reasons you don't just put all your biggest guns on it.

The modification system could still include trade-offs. For instance, a mod might offer +100% weapon cooling or +100% radar range—changes like these would clearly distinguish a combat ship from a scout. As it stands, the current modification system feels too insignificant.
The real issue is that this kind of balancing was never built into the game’s core design, and implementing it properly would require significant work across multiple systems.

Why I distinguish from the current mod system though, is that it is intended to basically be some guy tinkering around with things.
What I proposed is an official shipyard equipment package. You'll change the things through the ship build/loadout screen like you change your weapons/shield/engines.

I'll argue that the core design does support it though. Look at the ship mod system, it already has the elements necessary there. The question is whether the work done there can be exported elsewhere.
Like let's start with something simple. I'll call it the "Scout" package. Using the ship mod system, I'll describe it as +sensor range, +weapon reload, -weapon cooling. Note that all these already exist in the current ship mod system. What matters is twofold, whether a ship modification can take qualities from two different categories, since iirc sensor range is under chassis. And also whether you can then export that towards a shipyard equipment which can apply it universally. I.e. I install this "Scout" package and it'll apply the sensor range buff and also the weapon nerfs towards all the available guns.

And as mentioned, this goes beyond just tweaking sensor values, if it works, you can also bring back and update the old sentinel/vanguard/raider system, allowing you to further customize your ships for your needs, while not needing actual separate ship designs since it's all internal. And of course, without needing to manually mod your ships individually.

[vvvvvvvv]

As mentioned before, that's how it worked in rebirth. It is possible that they were in a bit of hurry, that's how everything ended with 40 km range. Kinda like we used to have L miners with 40 docked ship capacity.

I just checked Roguey’s X Rebirth site—most ships in X Rebirth had a 12 km radar range, and in version 4.7, carrier range was increased to 32 km. That might just be a placeholder value.

Since ships also reduce their detectability, it would actually make sense to lower the detectable range for S-class ships as well.

That does not seem to be correct.

S:
Camulos Sentinel: 15 km
Drostan: 24 km
M:
Daito: 18km
Dwalin: 12km.
L:
Fedhelm: 24km
Heavy Sul: 8km
Rahanas: 8Km
XL:
Lyramekron: 12km
Arawn: 36km.

[Raptor34]

As mentioned before, that's how it worked in rebirth. It is possible that they were in a bit of hurry, that's how everything ended with 40 km range. Kinda like we used to have L miners with 40 docked ship capacity.

I just checked Roguey’s X Rebirth site—most ships in X Rebirth had a 12 km radar range, and in version 4.7, carrier range was increased to 32 km. That might just be a placeholder value.

Since ships also reduce their detectability, it would actually make sense to lower the detectable range for S-class ships as well.

That does not seem to be correct.

S:
Camulos Sentinel: 15 km
Drostan: 24 km
M:
Daito: 18km
Dwalin: 12km.
L:
Fedhelm: 24km
Heavy Sul: 8km
Rahanas: 8Km
XL:
Lyramekron: 12km
Arawn: 36km.

For those of us who barely played XR. What are the roles of those ships? I'm curious what their sensor ranges are based on.

[vvvvvvvv]

I just checked Roguey’s X Rebirth site—most ships in X Rebirth had a 12 km radar range, and in version 4.7, carrier range was increased to 32 km. That might just be a placeholder value.

Since ships also reduce their detectability, it would actually make sense to lower the detectable range for S-class ships as well.

That does not seem to be correct.

S:
Camulos Sentinel: 15 km
Drostan: 24 km
M:
Daito: 18km
Dwalin: 12km.
L:
Fedhelm: 24km
Heavy Sul: 8km
Rahanas: 8Km
XL:
Lyramekron: 12km
Arawn: 36km.

For those of us who barely played XR. What are the roles of those ships? I'm curious what their sensor ranges are based on.

Lyramekron --> XL Armed Freigher
Arawn --> XL Destroyer. Actually it is closer to Battleship
Rahanas, Sul --> L Freighter
Fedhlelm --> L Miner.
Camulos Sentinel --> S Fighter
Drostan --> S Bomber
Daito --> M Katana Knockoff
Dwalin --> Miner.

Basically, generally military ships have higher radar range, freighters have lower, but some factions have better tech. In XR Roles are not precisely defined, meaning you could use "universal freighter" (meaning can carry all cargo) as a miner, if you steal one. For example, Tituriel (12k radar range).

You can also check this data on roguey's site.

https://roguey.co.uk/xrebirth/ships/

[Raptor34]

That does not seem to be correct.

S:
Camulos Sentinel: 15 km
Drostan: 24 km
M:
Daito: 18km
Dwalin: 12km.
L:
Fedhelm: 24km
Heavy Sul: 8km
Rahanas: 8Km
XL:
Lyramekron: 12km
Arawn: 36km.

For those of us who barely played XR. What are the roles of those ships? I'm curious what their sensor ranges are based on.

Lyramekron --> XL Armed Freigher
Arawn --> XL Destroyer. Actually it is closer to Battleship
Rahanas, Sul --> L Freighter
Fedhlelm --> L Miner.
Camulos Sentinel --> S Fighter
Drostan --> S Bomber
Daito --> M Katana Knockoff
Dwalin --> Miner.

Basically, generally military ships have higher radar range, freighters have lower, but some factions have better tech. In XR Roles are not precisely defined, meaning you could use "universal freighter" (meaning can carry all cargo) as a miner, if you steal one. For example, Tituriel (12k radar range).

You can also check this data on roguey's site.

https://roguey.co.uk/xrebirth/ships/

Interesting. I assume the Fedhelm is one of those better tech ones then, since it's the only oddity out of that list.