Hey all,
Not something new, but I do wonder why it's like this. Basically, if you set a rule so your ships avoid enemy sectors it will treat any NEUTRAL sectors as enemies. This generally isn't too much of an issue, more of an annoyance than anything. However, after a Xenon invasion - repelled, eventually - a key sector became neutral. This immediately caused all of my civilian traffic to try to divert around it. This leads to ships that might only have a two or three sector range travelling MUCH further than that. Their destination is still technically within range, but their route to get there might take them through a dozen sectors. At best, this slows things down, though it might possibly lead to stations stalling as deliveries are delayed. At worse, well, the ship is far more exposed to danger travelling such a long route.
So, should it work this way? Should a neutral, unowned sector be treated as an ENEMY sector?
Blacklists: Avoid Enemy Sectors = Avoid *Neutral* sectors
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- EGOSOFT
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Re: Blacklists: Avoid Enemy Sectors = Avoid *Neutral* sectors
Do you have evidence of this assertion? As far as I'm aware that's not how it works.
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Re: Blacklists: Avoid Enemy Sectors = Avoid *Neutral* sectors
I don't think I've ever seen my ships avoid neutral sectors like Nopileos' Fortune, Heretic's End, Sanctuary of Darkness, Ore Belt. During the early phase of my current playthrough I had to specifically blacklist Sanctum Verge because my ships were trying to use a shortcut through that Kha'ak infested neutral sector.
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Re: Blacklists: Avoid Enemy Sectors = Avoid *Neutral* sectors
I'm actually quite happy it's not meant to work that way. I have civilian ships set to avoid enemy sectors - it's one of the first blacklists I create at the start of a new game - and I've often seen them refusing to traverse certain neutral sectors.
I wonder if how they become neutral is a factor, alongside what other rules, or routing options, are in place. In my example, the sector was previously reported as FRF but contested with ZYA. In this state, me being on good terms with both, my civilian ships (the ones with the avoid enemy sectors blacklist applied by default) happily flew through this sector. After what was likely a combination of those XEN forces being thrown in to the FRF vs. ZYA mix, the sector became neutral. At that point, my ships - be it station-assigned (traders / miners) or manually-ordered - started routing around that sector.
I do regularly build in neutral sectors myself (Silent Witness 9 and 10), and there's no activity blacklist preventing them trading, mining or scavenging there, so it works fine - even with an "enemy sectors" travel blacklist. They will travel through a sector IF they have an activity there it seems. However, if they are purely trying to travel through the sector AND they have a viable alternate route, they'll take that instead.
It's almost like there's a weighting system in play. I.e. with that "enemy sectors" blacklist applied, it will fly through a neutral sector if there's no alternative - like in SW 9 & 10. However, if there is an alternative, it will use it. So, as I see myself, dead-end sectors like SW 9 & 10 - where I often set up a scrapping operation - are not impacted.
Additionally, there are some sectors that start out neutral BUT have perhaps a Pirate-owned station present. My ships refused to trade with that station (-5) until I took ownership of that sector myself. The moment I did, my traders started flooding in. So, in that case it was an activity that was being blocked - yet I have no activity blacklists, just that single travel one. Yet, other neutral sector with pirate-owned stations my ships visit fine. It's not clear cut.
So, some speculation here, but consider what I saw: A sector once owned by FRF becomes neutral, then all my civilian ships start routing around that sector to avoid it. Only rule in place is a travel blacklist for enemy sectors applied by default to civilian ships.
This could well be some weird anomaly of course. In the past, ships have exhibited very weird route planning indeed, taking a path through a Xenon-owned sector, rather than the shorter, safer route. I think it was Matrix #451 that was a bit of a magnet - even with an enemy sector blacklist in place - with fleets travelling through there between Split and Teladi space. That was a while ago though, not sure if it still causes issues.
Thought: Thinking about it, this sector did, at one point, fall under XEN ownership becoming a valid enemy sector to be avoided, before becoming neutral once again later. Could the ships be confused? I.e. if it was XEN and went back to ZYA/FRF things would be fine, but having it go neutral (until I later took over) confused something?
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- EGOSOFT
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Re: Blacklists: Avoid Enemy Sectors = Avoid *Neutral* sectors
Speculation isn't going to help here. If we have evidence then we can investigate.
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Re: Blacklists: Avoid Enemy Sectors = Avoid *Neutral* sectors
I feel you are confusing two things: neutral sectors (no-one owns them) versus contested sectors (multiple parties lay a claim on them). Contested sectors can occasionally be grey but tend to have multiple factions present who have a claim on it. If you have blacklisted one of the claimants as 'avoid enemy sector', then that contested sector will also count for the blacklist.
If you want your ships to keep using the sector, either whitelist it or blow up all claim stations of the enemy faction you blacklisted. Stations that can claim things are Defense Stations, EQ docks, shipyards & wharfs.
If you want your ships to keep using the sector, either whitelist it or blow up all claim stations of the enemy faction you blacklisted. Stations that can claim things are Defense Stations, EQ docks, shipyards & wharfs.
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Re: Blacklists: Avoid Enemy Sectors = Avoid *Neutral* sectors
You can inspect the behavior of your ship, if the sector is truly blacklisted, it'll tell you which rule it is.
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