The New Flight Mechanics are Amazing!

[Blankchild]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQUOdJK ... DiscoPrime

I have to admit I wasn't a fan at first, but I noticed I can't cheese the gate ways anymore with laying down 200 laser towers and the more I thought about how this affected everything else it just clicked that clearly this is a better direction. Allows more boosting in combat gives X4 a more arcade type feel without sacrificing depth.

[Captain_Canard]

I hate the new flight mechanics, but I know I'm in the minority. I dislike the changes so much that I'm afraid that I'll be stuck playing version 7.10 forever. Which isn't the end of the world - it's a good version, but like most of X4 versions, it's still full of bugs, and like Windows 10 in October, there will be no more updates for it.

This is what annoys me with the flight mechanics change - it's such a core fundamental change to the game, like going from Windows 8 to Windows 10 (but backwards, because I like 10 but not . X4 7.50 feels like a different game than X4 7.10, almost like X5 or something. Well at least I have the option to run the older version, not all developers provide this option.

[Jeraal]

@Captain_Canard
That makes at least two of us. I have actually stopped playing the game. Flying was my favorite part and, from my perspective, it has been ruined. The FAQ says it cannot be reverted, but I hope some modder can find a way to "fix" it. I hate being locked out of all future updates because of this change. Egosoft says they like to make their updates in a way that allows you to keep your old saves. In this case, it is a failure for me. If X5 (if there is one) has this flight mode, I fear I will only buy it at an extreme discount(90% off).

[birdtable]

Sorry Guys but I think the new flight controls are pretty good, I had a good laugh the first time I tried to land a Drill laden with ore !!!, I just slid sideways past the hangar opening, the whole ship handled like it should with that mass..... plus I think the radar is a great improvement ((not perfect ) but more than acceptable.

[Daemonjax]

After a few dozen hours, my impressions are:

Light scouts fly like Heavy fighters did.
Heavy fighters fly like how M Frigates did.

FA Off is way less useful now, and I guess that was 100% the point of the changes.

I really only ever fly S ships, so the changes are kinda unfun for me. But whatever. Everyone else thinks it's great, apparently.

[Submarine]

FA Off is way less useful now, and I guess that was 100% the point of the changes.

I really only ever fly S ships, so the changes are kinda unfun for me. But whatever. Everyone else thinks it's great, apparently.

I also fly S mostly and can hardly tell the difference beteween FA on and off because normal flight is so slidey its like FA off. There is a difference but not a lot. Picking up drops is very awkward. Feels a bit silly, funny once. By the tenth time not so much and I am wondering who let a 5 yr old mod X4?

[MarStrMind]

FA off is as useful as it was before. What has changed is the handling of mass of ships and their physics, inertia, and kinetic energy. The new flight model makes all ships feel more realistic and not so arcady.

[vvvvvvvv]

I also fly S mostly and can hardly tell the difference beteween FA on and off because

That's most likely split engines. Try paranid or terran ones. Also, that's a feature. Split engines effectively allow you to circle-strafe around target with FA On.

FA off is as useful as it was before.

IMO it is more useful now, because previously there was less incentive to use it.

[LameFox]

It's not perfect now, but honestly, this game had the worst flight mechanics I've experienced in recent memory, so it's still a big improvement IMO. A lot of the weird, buggy parts that used to really annoy me seem to be gone or much reduced now, the AI ships adhere better to the rules of physics (not strictly, but more than they used to) and they fixed the stupidly broken ships like Astrid whose stats seemed to exceed the system as designed. I also quite like that I never really feel the need to toggle FA anymore because it was always kind of immersion breaking to me to be the only one with this superpower. Now even without it I'm still able to maintain a very high mobility just controlling the drift.

All I really need now is for the weapons to get a pass to bring them back up to par, because right now the extra mobility of ships has hit some a lot harder than others.

[Captain_Canard]

@Captain_Canard
That makes at least two of us. I have actually stopped playing the game.

Another option is use the Beta tab in Steam (assuming that's your platform) and select 7.10 from the list. I'll give Egosoft kudos for letting us run older version of the game.

Flying was my favorite part and, from my perspective, it has been ruined. The FAQ says it cannot be reverted, but I hope some modder can find a way to "fix" it.

I looked at the modding documentation today, and I do think there is a lot of flexibility to change the "weight" of the ships. I'm not sure you'd like my own preferences, however. I think the original model was too squirrelly and "precise" for smaller ships, but the new model went the opposite extreme, making everything way too "slippery". I want something in the middle.

But right now I have other problems, like the beta giving me horrible performance compared to 7.10, so I'm just sticking with 7.10 until that issue is fixed.

I hate being locked out of all future updates because of this change.

Me too, brother! I can live without new ships, but there are a lot of bug and AI fixes that I desperately want. If Keen fixes the performance issues they've introduced, I think I can mod the flight model to my liking. It'll take a lot of work, but I'm not afraid to edit some XML files.

[Submarine]

I also fly S mostly and can hardly tell the difference beteween FA on and off because

That's most likely split engines. Try paranid or terran ones. Also, that's a feature. Split engines effectively allow you to circle-strafe around target with FA On.

No, on a point of information, I am using Paranid combat engines. Please don't make stuff up about what I am saying.

I tested all the race engines extensively in beta. I know what I am talking about.

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[Targ Collective]

I'm indifferent to the flight mechanics either way because I rarely pilot my ships - I prefer a more detached approach and let the AI handle trade and combat while I watch the massive fleet battles unfold.

If you were reliant on the old flight mechanics and find it not worth the effort to adapt to the new ones then you won't like them, I guess, while if you're coming in new you won't know the difference and if you can adapt you might prefer the new mechanics or you might not.

There are plenty of different games with plenty of different flight mechanics. The game is increasingly balanced around you needing allied ships to level the playing field. Way back in the day you could play Ace Rimmer Destroys the Infinite Xenon Menace, now it's increasingly Fleet Admiral Kirkard Barrages the Xenon Technobrains. There's room for gameplay mechanics to change and drift depending on the devteam's vision.

If you want to play Ace Rimmer, there are lots of games for that! The X Universe is shifting to have and need a strategic element more and I don't mind that much myself. But I get how it might irritate those who want to get behind a fighter with guns blazing and destroy a fleet single-handed.

X4 has been shading to the realistic side for some time. Now, because Ace Rimmer Destroys Everything is unrealistic, it is less possible. Because Faction McFaction Funds the McFaction Military and Destroys the Technobrains with Modern Blueprint Technology is more realistic, it's the preferred pathway, it is more possible.

If you're flying an M ship then you'll need turrets and a fighter escort more, and will take on M targets and hardpoints, maybe throw some missiles around. The metagame has shifted, which often happens with games in active development. If you want to adapt to this, then treat it as a new game. Using a non-budgeted start and maybe some cheat scripts, learn how to fly again. Instead of locking yourself into reliance on the old skills, challenge yourself to learn new ones. If all else fails, load up an old version of the game for a break or play one of the many Ace McBlammo games that are out there.

It's your time. Use it as you wish, but all change needs adaption.

[Captain_Canard]

But right now I have other problems, like the beta giving me horrible performance compared to 7.10, so I'm just sticking with 7.10 until that issue is fixed.

So I've done some extensive testing, and it seems that 7.50 is not the problem for me performance-wise, but rather this new beta. Which means:

I can live without new ships, but there are a lot of bug and AI fixes that I desperately want. If Keen fixes the performance issues they've introduced, I think I can mod the flight model to my liking. It'll take a lot of work, but I'm not afraid to edit some XML files.

I guess it's time to try to "adapt" as the poster below says.

It's your time. Use it as you wish, but all change needs adaption.

Adapt by modding, lol. What Egosoft needs to adapt is the AI. Something I'm noticing that is driving me crazy is the AI keeps overshooting the gates (large ships) and requires a ridiculous amount of time to turn around and make the jump to the next sector. I've seen some other wonky piloting too, probably because the AI hasn't been fine-tuned to the new flight model. Not that the AI knew how to fly the old model... Still, at least nail down these obvious problems like gate overshooting, Egosoft.

[Jeraal]

It has nothing to do with adapting and learning to fly again. I do not enjoy flying anymore. People can learn to use new mechanics in games and still not enjoy them. Nothing offers all that the X series does(flying, fleets, station building, trading). Now, for me, the flying has been rendered not fun. I can still play the older versions, but thanks to this change, I'm locked out of future updates.

[MarStrMind]

[...] but thanks to this change, I'm locked out of future updates.

Or, and here is a crazy idea, adapt to the new flight model which is more realistic now. You do know a developer from Star Citizen worked on that with Egosoft, yes?

[Targ Collective]

*sighs* You're locked out of future updates because the flight metagame has shifted so it's not as fun for you.

Starting out in a driving or piloting test is *never* fun in real life, because no-one starts with the skills they need before developing them. You'll make and learn from mistakes. That's inevitable.

You're locked out of future updates because the new flight mechanics aren't as fun for you, but staying in an old version is your choice to make or revoke. There *is* no constructive advice for that, except: stay in the old model you found fun and simply opt out of future versions; or learn to cope with, maybe even enjoy the new flight model and gain the future versions as a result.

You know, you can back up your saves - if you need details just ask - so you can switch between old and new versions on the fly, and have savefiles for both. Ultimately either new content will be worth the trouble of adapting to the new model or you'll stay in the old one. But there's no reason you can't use the old version for when you want to play Ace McHastyAce while you utilise the new version with more wing support while you adapt.

Change brings learning, sameness stagnation. Why not consider the new flight model a learning challenge? You're used to having a feel for how your ships handled and now that's changed. Of course that's annoying but that just means adapting to he *new* feel for how ships handle. When you were fresh into X4 you had to learn how ships handled from scratch. Just pretend it's a brand new game you're learning fresh. Once you get a feel for how the ships respond in the new model they'll feel as natural to pilot, but they won't if you never develop the skillset in the first place.

[Submarine]

[...] but thanks to this change, I'm locked out of future updates.

Or, and here is a crazy idea, adapt to the new flight model which is more realistic now. You do know a developer from Star Citizen worked on that with Egosoft, yes?

Having backed and followed Star Citizen since Oct 2012 (12+ years ago) I would not recommend holding Star Citizen by Cloud Imperium Games up as a paragon of excellence. If anything it is the antithesis of this and represents itself as better than it is using renders and influencer marketing.

X4 is authentically entertaining and playable while Star Citizen is not, due to a vast plethora of bugs and incoherent development process.

Star Citizen is notorious for hyping promises to backers without delivering on gameplay and glass-door reviews indicate a difficult work environment, not an exemplar of space sim development by any stretch of the imagination.

Besides which the Star Citizen ship physics model is not comparable to X4 as Star Citizen ships attempt to use physicalised destructible thruster components on ships. Even so when all thrusters are operating in Star Citizen they are more effective at stopping ships drifting sideways than the current post 7.5 (beta7.6) flight model for small ships in X4 because Chris Roberts, who is known for taking a personal interest in all aspects of the game they promised to make, knows a bad idea which will tick off half the backer base when he sees it.

Condescension and get gud comments are ad hominem, typical of a tribal defensive denialist mindset and fail to discuss and address the root problems players are experiencing with X4.

For example I don't have a problem with S ships drifting insanely in any context except trying to pick up drops, which is diabolical, as S ships drift way faster than the loot magnet can draw in drops. In discussing this please focus on the issues and do not express aggression towards the people who are perfectly reasonably raising them based on their real experiences. You wont win over players by alienating them.

[MarStrMind]

I only mentioned that a developer from Star Citizen helped out on the physics. That does not mean I endorse, like or even play SC - because, full disclosure - I do not. I also have not backed the title. Neither does it mean that X4 now has the same physics as SC.

I think we can agree that the flight model has improved. You may not like it, but it is definitely better.

[Submarine]

I only mentioned that a developer from Star Citizen helped out on the physics. That does not mean I endorse, like or even play SC - because, full disclosure - I do not. I also have not backed the title. Neither does it mean that X4 now has the same physics as SC.

I think we can agree that the flight model has improved. You may not like it, but it is definitely better.

Well re: backing SC, you were the smart one! I comfort myself that the only thing worse than making a mistake is failing to learn from it.

That said I am afraid I can't agree the new X4 v7.5 flight model is better. I can agree it is different and I have adapted to it and understand the principles involved in using it, else I would not criticise as that would be irresponsible but what you have to bear in mind imho is egosoft's previous approach to flight models was developed over many years through X-X2-X3-X4 from a basis of providing a playable experience which satisfies the mainstream, making flying a textured experience appropriate to the craft, which is good for sure but it was mostly pleasing rather than irritating.

Flight assist OFF was developed and added to offer a choice for braver pilots to experiment with counter thrusting and circle strafing etc to popular acclaim because it offers a choice and can be very useful imho for bombing runs across the bows of a Xenon I to knock out quad graviton turrets and sundry heroic deeds of piloting derring-do etc.

The new flight model makes FAon a lot more like FAoff, particularly with small ships, thus removing the choice of a mainstream flight model and obliging all players to use a flight model which does not cater for the statistical bulge in the middle of the normal distribution curve for the majority of potential players. IMHO in so doing 7.5 removed a choice, which is inconsistent with the previous approach of X games and inconsiderate towards people who just don't want to play like that and is hard to justify in a single player game. I simply advocate choice, in preferrance to its denial.

Consequently I don't find it amazing that S ships always fly now as if they don't have adequate RCS to control their own movements, I find it irritating. I am not going to join in a conspiracy of nude emperor hype marketing the *new feature* as that is not sustainable in the long term. Plenty of other replies above express similar opinions so I feel I am trying to express something many others are feeling (I am guessing around half the players who post) and may feel intimidated out of expressing by reflex defensiveness in some quarters, which is a shame for everyone especially the designers of the flight model. I hope discussing what people are really feeling and why will be helpful to them in making a successful game with broad appeal so I encourage people to give honest feedback, without wishing to wear out my own welcome, in the belief feedback is like free market-research for the devs and worth real money and I would encourage them to keep working on it to get it to a point where more people are happy with the experience.

[jlehtone]

That said I am afraid I can't agree the new X4 v7.5 flight model is better. I can agree it is different

"Different" is a fact. "Better/worse" is subjective. Some like arcade, some like something else.

X4 has seen "bold moves". Changes in engine. That is a different strategy than the "lets release the new thing as a new game".


I don't see the change as "big difference"; I can still fly. I have yet to fly a small ship since 7.50 but since I rarely did that before, I don't expect noticeable impact.