Post-VIG plot Astrid. Especially for custom games

[Raptor34]

So the one where you side with the twins is easy, they'll be hanging out somewhere in an Astrid, you just comm them to buy a new one, and I assume you do the same if you lost it.
But what about for the option where you go against them?

Question 1: For custom games with the plot set to complete against the twins, I assume I can still get both of them, and I assume one of them would be easier to capture and the other one more difficult. But where do I find them?

Question 2: After I get both ships, either through custom starts setting the plot to complete or manually completing it, assuming I lose one or both of them, what happens then? Would it revert to the "first" one is easy to capture and the second one isn't? And this is probably covered by the previous question, but where do they hang out so I can find them to cap them again? Am I right in assuming that basically the number of Astrids in the universe is always set to 2? And basically if I capture both then the twins don't have them, and if I lose them a new one is spawned for the twins to capture them again? Actually is that also how it works if I side with the twins? The twins have one, I have the other.

Bonus question: What's the best way to cap them nowadays? Back then I took a Dragon with Ion Blasters, but are the new Boron ships better? I'm probably taking a M ship for this. Unless there is a S ship that can tank them well enough and still have good chances to capture them. Is the X Shuttle good for it? Or is it likely to just blow it up? And semi-related for those who are trying the beta, is it easier or harder to tackle hostile Astrids now? Assume I'm not a good pilot, I can turn the ship around.

[thedavid]

In the more recent builds of the game you can not have two Astrids. As soon as you take one the other is immortal. If you lose your Astrid you can go find the other one and take it. The twins are both on it and they escape. Their escape pods are immortal so you can't kill them no matter how much you try.

If you use budget game start the one Astrid with both twins is by the casino. There aren't two, just one. The game treats it like you got one and lost it. If you take or destroy the Astrid then they show up again by the Casino in a new one. They never go back to unknown.

Since there is no one in unknown to bother you the way is clear to start the game, build a station for storage, get a condensate transport ship, and start doing deliveries.

As for the best ship, I don't know. I used a Katana. For me nothing else worked without me destroying the Astrid. I usually fight Xenon so I hit hard.

[Raptor34]

When did they change it so you can't get both Astrids?

[blackphoenixx]

In my current game started in the 7.5 beta I used a Nemesis with ARG ion guns since they do almost no hull damage and the Astrid has an L-grade shield.
Also one tracking launcher with EMP missiles to stop boost. Switch to only 1 gun once the shield is down and it works like a charm.

It had TER Mk3 shields with the purple regen mod so the Astrids turrets barely tickled, though iirc they've improved turret aiming since so YMMV. Either way you can just boost out of range to regen if necessary, they're not going to run away.

In the more recent builds of the game you can not have two Astrids. As soon as you take one the other is immortal. If you lose your Astrid you can go find the other one and take it. The twins are both on it and they escape. Their escape pods are immortal so you can't kill them no matter how much you try.

Killed the escape pod in the 7.5 beta so they're not immortal now.

Since there is no one in unknown to bother you the way is clear to start the game, build a station for storage, get a condensate transport ship, and start doing deliveries.

You can do that in a normal game start too. There's nothing stopping you from waiting for the Tide and flying through the anomaly to Leap of Faith if you know what to do (the twins won't be there).
There's even specific dialogue for it later in the quest if you've been there before.

Can't do the storage station though because the blueprint for protectyon storage is locked behind chosing to not side with the twins.

[vvvvvvvv]

So the one where you side with the twins is easy, they'll be hanging out somewhere in an Astrid, you just comm them to buy a new one, and I assume you do the same if you lost it.
But what about for the option where you go against them?

Question 1: For custom games with the plot set to complete against the twins, I assume I can still get both of them, and I assume one of them would be easier to capture and the other one more difficult. But where do I find them?

Question 2: After I get both ships, either through custom starts setting the plot to complete or manually completing it, assuming I lose one or both of them, what happens then? Would it revert to the "first" one is easy to capture and the second one isn't? And this is probably covered by the previous question, but where do they hang out so I can find them to cap them again? Am I right in assuming that basically the number of Astrids in the universe is always set to 2? And basically if I capture both then the twins don't have them, and if I lose them a new one is spawned for the twins to capture them again? Actually is that also how it works if I side with the twins? The twins have one, I have the other.

Bonus question: What's the best way to cap them nowadays? Back then I took a Dragon with Ion Blasters, but are the new Boron ships better? I'm probably taking a M ship for this. Unless there is a S ship that can tank them well enough and still have good chances to capture them. Is the X Shuttle good for it? Or is it likely to just blow it up? And semi-related for those who are trying the beta, is it easier or harder to tackle hostile Astrids now? Assume I'm not a good pilot, I can turn the ship around.

1> One Astrid will patrol the casino, and another will hang around Tide Breaker. If you set the state where you sided with Dagobas.

2> I was told that if both of them are destroyed, they respawn. I have not checked it, and suggest not to lose them. Supposedly it is possible to get three astrids this way. Haven't tried that. Getting two is already annoying enough.

3> The first astrid is usually very easy to cap. For the 2nd one you could boron Hydra with slowdown guns or Katana with full ion loadout. Note that an astrid is perfectly capable of blowing either of those up, has noticeable shield, but its hull is made out of wet toilet paper. So you might need to spend ten minutes gently plinking it with ion guns until it finally surrenders. I suggest to quicksave before you try capping either of them.

[Raptor34]

In my current game started in the 7.5 beta I used a Nemesis with ARG ion guns since they do almost no hull damage and the Astrid has an L-grade shield.
Also one tracking launcher with EMP missiles to stop boost. Switch to only 1 gun once the shield is down and it works like a charm.

It had TER Mk3 shields with the purple regen mod so the Astrids turrets barely tickled, though iirc they've improved turret aiming since so YMMV. Either way you can just boost out of range to regen if necessary, they're not going to run away.

In the more recent builds of the game you can not have two Astrids. As soon as you take one the other is immortal. If you lose your Astrid you can go find the other one and take it. The twins are both on it and they escape. Their escape pods are immortal so you can't kill them no matter how much you try.

Killed the escape pod in the 7.5 beta so they're not immortal now.

Since there is no one in unknown to bother you the way is clear to start the game, build a station for storage, get a condensate transport ship, and start doing deliveries.

You can do that in a normal game start too. There's nothing stopping you from waiting for the Tide and flying through the anomaly to Leap of Faith if you know what to do (the twins won't be there).
There's even specific dialogue for it later in the quest if you've been there before.

Can't do the storage station though because the blueprint for protectyon storage is locked behind chosing to not side with the twins.

So just to confirm, if you go against the twins you can still get both Astrids then?

So the one where you side with the twins is easy, they'll be hanging out somewhere in an Astrid, you just comm them to buy a new one, and I assume you do the same if you lost it.
But what about for the option where you go against them?

Question 1: For custom games with the plot set to complete against the twins, I assume I can still get both of them, and I assume one of them would be easier to capture and the other one more difficult. But where do I find them?

Question 2: After I get both ships, either through custom starts setting the plot to complete or manually completing it, assuming I lose one or both of them, what happens then? Would it revert to the "first" one is easy to capture and the second one isn't? And this is probably covered by the previous question, but where do they hang out so I can find them to cap them again? Am I right in assuming that basically the number of Astrids in the universe is always set to 2? And basically if I capture both then the twins don't have them, and if I lose them a new one is spawned for the twins to capture them again? Actually is that also how it works if I side with the twins? The twins have one, I have the other.

Bonus question: What's the best way to cap them nowadays? Back then I took a Dragon with Ion Blasters, but are the new Boron ships better? I'm probably taking a M ship for this. Unless there is a S ship that can tank them well enough and still have good chances to capture them. Is the X Shuttle good for it? Or is it likely to just blow it up? And semi-related for those who are trying the beta, is it easier or harder to tackle hostile Astrids now? Assume I'm not a good pilot, I can turn the ship around.

1> One Astrid will patrol the casino, and another will hang around Tide Breaker. If you set the state where you sided with Dagobas.

2> I was told that if both of them are destroyed, they respawn. I have not checked it, and suggest not to lose them. Supposedly it is possible to get three astrids this way. Haven't tried that. Getting two is already annoying enough.

3> The first astrid is usually very easy to cap. For the 2nd one you could boron Hydra with slowdown guns or Katana with full ion loadout. Note that an astrid is perfectly capable of blowing either of those up, has noticeable shield, but its hull is made out of wet toilet paper. So you might need to spend ten minutes gently plinking it with ion guns until it finally surrenders. I suggest to quicksave before you try capping either of them.

Thanks. Last I remember googling I saw something about the casino, and something about finding the other one at the gate when the Tide comes in, so getting confirmation of where to find both of them is helpful.

Now I just need to figure out how to plan out the start I want. Dunno if I should just set them all to complete or slowly grind it out again, the blowing up the VIG station part is a pain if I don't want to build a fleet and keep things minimal.

[vvvvvvvv]

So just to confirm, if you go against the twins you can still get both Astrids then?

If you go against twins, you'll fight one of them at the hidden sector, and the first astrid you attack will be scripted to quickly eject the pilot. The second one you'll have to fight normally. Meaning it will have very high morale pilot, and because of the issues I outlined, it is easy to blow it up. It is worth pointing out that the last time I bothered with this storyline was at version six, but most likely nothing changed.

You can also find the other astrid if it wanders away somewhere through map search, as long as you have satellite coverage. As far as I'm aware it shouldn't leave avarice sectors and I'd expect it to wander next to casino or tidebreak, just like with custom start.

[blackphoenixx]

So just to confirm, if you go against the twins you can still get both Astrids then?

Haven't actually capped the second one yet, i'll give it a shot tomorrow.

Now I just need to figure out how to plan out the start I want. Dunno if I should just set them all to complete or slowly grind it out again, the blowing up the VIG station part is a pain if I don't want to build a fleet and keep things minimal.

You'll probably want to do the Defenders of Sol questline manually since it's the only way to get a ship with the Yaki cover ability that makes Xenon non-hostile (since you get to keep it after completing the quest in 7.5).
Also the free Syn and a free 5-star pilot.

Erlking can safely be skipped without missing anything except some minor loot (and possibly the 2nd Astrid), same for the Avarice plot in general.
Though if you have Timelines a Sapporo makes finding the data vaults a cakewalk with its giant radar range.

The Segaris one gets you the Geometric Owl if done manually but aside from the paintjob it's no different from any other Moreya afaik. That's the one with the Torus Aeternal, so if you really hated that bit you may want to skip it.

HAT questline can safely be skipped, you only lose out on a free S trader which you shouldn't really need as an experienced player. And it's kinda long and annoying.

HQ can be skipped, you potentially lose out on a free frigate but nothing unique. Though with KE active you literally only have to fly to Heretic's End to get it setting it to complete lets you pick which sector it spawns in.

[Raptor34]

So just to confirm, if you go against the twins you can still get both Astrids then?

If you go against twins, you'll fight one of them at the hidden sector, and the first astrid you attack will be scripted to quickly eject the pilot. The second one you'll have to fight normally. Meaning it will have very high morale pilot, and because of the issues I outlined, it is easy to blow it up. It is worth pointing out that the last time I bothered with this storyline was at version six, but most likely nothing changed.

You can also find the other astrid if it wanders away somewhere through map search, as long as you have satellite coverage. As far as I'm aware it shouldn't leave avarice sectors and I'd expect it to wander next to casino or tidebreak, just like with custom start.

I'm aware of how it used to work re:both Astrids, it's just that someone said that a recent patch removed the capability to get both. If so then I was thinking I should as well just side with the twins and buy it. Though in such a case I'll also be missing out on that golden paintjob.

So just to confirm, if you go against the twins you can still get both Astrids then?

Haven't actually capped the second one yet, i'll give it a shot tomorrow.

Now I just need to figure out how to plan out the start I want. Dunno if I should just set them all to complete or slowly grind it out again, the blowing up the VIG station part is a pain if I don't want to build a fleet and keep things minimal.

You'll probably want to do the Defenders of Sol questline manually since it's the only way to get a ship with the Yaki cover ability that makes Xenon non-hostile (since you get to keep it after completing the quest in 7.5).
Also the free Syn and a free 5-star pilot.

Erlking can safely be skipped without missing anything except some minor loot (and possibly the 2nd Astrid), same for the Avarice plot in general.
Though if you have Timelines a Sapporo makes finding the data vaults a cakewalk with its giant radar range.

The Segaris one gets you the Geometric Owl if done manually but aside from the paintjob it's no different from any other Moreya afaik. That's the one with the Torus Aeternal, so if you really hated that bit you may want to skip it.

HAT questline can safely be skipped, you only lose out on a free S trader which you shouldn't really need as an experienced player. And it's kinda long and annoying.

HQ can be skipped, you potentially lose out on a free frigate but nothing unique. Though with KE active you literally only have to fly to Heretic's End to get it setting it to complete lets you pick which sector it spawns in.

Right, there is that. But I was thinking of taking the Hyperion, so seeing which is fun is part of it too. The Torus is annoying I agree.
I'll need to think about it further later. But I'm definitely skipping the Erlking one. Thank god Egosoft makes that an actual plot. Now if only they'll let us skip terraforming too.

[vvvvvvvv]

I'm aware of how it used to work re:both Astrids, it's just that someone said that a recent patch removed the capability to get both.

No idea about that one.

Right, there is that. But I was thinking of taking the Hyperion, so seeing which is fun is part of it too. The Torus is annoying I agree.
I'll need to think about it further later. But I'm definitely skipping the Erlking one. Thank god Egosoft makes that an actual plot. Now if only they'll let us skip terraforming too.

The best way to get Erlking is through custom start. I.e. you unlock it once, and then enable it in future playthroughs. Data vaults are extremely annoying.

[Raptor34]

Update, I guess.
Started a new creative customs. Found the twins exactly as mentioned. Though fortunately the Tidebreak one decided to hang out with a whole bunch of other ships in WIndfall, dunno if that one is bugged or I just need to wait. But I digress. Captured both of them. First one easy as expected, second one... Easier than I expected tbh considering. Had to beat it to within an inch of it's life.
I ran a full purple mod Hydra with Ion Atomisers with those running Expediters. Shield was purple Pavise, 60%+ capacity since I don't expect to recharge anything against beam weapons, that and M shield recharge is trash anyway.
Basically just tanked all their attacks and slugged it out. Dunno if it's the new flight model, AI or what, but at least the Astrids weren't zipping around much.
Noticed that all 4 Ions is too much damage once you broke their shields. 1 is too weak to counter their shield regen. 2 is the sweet spot. Setup 1 firing group of all 4 guns, and then split the other 2 guns into another 2 separate groups for 3 groups total. Use the all 4 group to break it's shields. Then when it's 10% or so, it's shield recharge is fast so that's the level you can expect to see most of the time, then you keep cycling between the two 2 gun groups and keep steady fire on it.

[vvvvvvvv]

Noticed that all 4 Ions is too much damage once you broke their shields. 1 is too weak to counter their shield regen. 2 is the sweet spot.

Last time I was capping those I used mk2 ions. At that time it was absolutely possible to blow up Astrid with just one of the ions guns active.

[Raptor34]

Noticed that all 4 Ions is too much damage once you broke their shields. 1 is too weak to counter their shield regen. 2 is the sweet spot.

Last time I was capping those I used mk2 ions. At that time it was absolutely possible to blow up Astrid with just one of the ions guns active.

Dunno if the Boron one is just not as good or accuracy issues or what. I'm using the Ion Atomizer. I think Boron only has Mk.1.
I tried with a single one, couldn't even suppress it's regen. 2 worked out okay, but you better be keeping shots on target, that shield is no joke.

[vvvvvvvv]

Dunno if the Boron one is just not as good or accuracy issues or what. I'm using the Ion Atomizer. I think Boron only has Mk.1.
I tried with a single one, couldn't even suppress it's regen. 2 worked out okay, but you better be keeping shots on target, that shield is no joke.

I used Argon Mk2 Ions on Katana. I had more luck with Katana. Boron Hydra with slowdown guns was quite helpful, because it would prevent Astrid from running away, but basically, depending on luck Astrid can blow up a Hydra with its beam turrets. Normal Hydra, not royal one. Not sure how capturing it would go now, with a new flight model. Should probably consider starting a new playthrough to try.

[Raptor34]

Dunno if the Boron one is just not as good or accuracy issues or what. I'm using the Ion Atomizer. I think Boron only has Mk.1.
I tried with a single one, couldn't even suppress it's regen. 2 worked out okay, but you better be keeping shots on target, that shield is no joke.

I used Argon Mk2 Ions on Katana. I had more luck with Katana. Boron Hydra with slowdown guns was quite helpful, because it would prevent Astrid from running away, but basically, depending on luck Astrid can blow up a Hydra with its beam turrets. Normal Hydra, not royal one. Not sure how capturing it would go now, with a new flight model. Should probably consider starting a new playthrough to try.

With a purple mod for +60% capacity for shields, it wasn't an issue. Never even dipped below 50% shields... Probably. Hard to see anything when your whole screen is yellow.
Wonder if maybe it's AI is not adapting to the flight model well? It rarely shot it's main guns at me, though tbf I can't remember if it ever did. I was only taking turret fire.

[vvvvvvvv]

With a purple mod for +60% capacity for shields, it wasn't an issue. Never even dipped below 50% shields... Probably. Hard to see anything when your whole screen is yellow.
Wonder if maybe it's AI is not adapting to the flight model well? It rarely shot it's main guns at me, though tbf I can't remember if it ever did. I was only taking turret fire.

I was using unmodded ships back then. With modded, would be much easier, almost certainly. Yes, blinding flash is annoying. At versions 6-7.10 there was a bit of luck. Where either you begin chasing it and can't do anything for some reason, or it starts doing sommersauls and lucky turns fries the shields with turrets non-stop. Well, I'm not the best pilot in the galaxy either, so there's that I guess.

[thedavid]

So just to confirm, if you go against the twins you can still get both Astrids then?

Haven't actually capped the second one yet, i'll give it a shot tomorrow.

Now I just need to figure out how to plan out the start I want. Dunno if I should just set them all to complete or slowly grind it out again, the blowing up the VIG station part is a pain if I don't want to build a fleet and keep things minimal.

You'll probably want to do the Defenders of Sol questline manually since it's the only way to get a ship with the Yaki cover ability that makes Xenon non-hostile (since you get to keep it after completing the quest in 7.5).
Also the free Syn and a free 5-star pilot.

Erlking can safely be skipped without missing anything except some minor loot (and possibly the 2nd Astrid), same for the Avarice plot in general.
Though if you have Timelines a Sapporo makes finding the data vaults a cakewalk with its giant radar range.

The Segaris one gets you the Geometric Owl if done manually but aside from the paintjob it's no different from any other Moreya afaik. That's the one with the Torus Aeternal, so if you really hated that bit you may want to skip it.

HAT questline can safely be skipped, you only lose out on a free S trader which you shouldn't really need as an experienced player. And it's kinda long and annoying.

HQ can be skipped, you potentially lose out on a free frigate but nothing unique. Though with KE active you literally only have to fly to Heretic's End to get it setting it to complete lets you pick which sector it spawns in.

Story State settings in Custom Game Start as I have experienced them:

HQ Default: You have to get the HQ from the very beginning. There are three ways to do this but only two available in CGS depending on if the Boron expansion is loaded or not.

HQ with Boso Ta: You skip needing to get the HQ. You skip the signal leak missions, you skip sacrificing one of your ships and you don't get frigate derelict. However, you can set all the research that you've previously completed to finished, meaning you get instant access to teleportation, ship modification, and can EMP station blueprints.

If you set the engine mods research to finished you miss out on being able to buy a ship from a guy.

So, is that frigate worth it to have to pay for all that research again? Well, is it? You have to blow up one of your ships to get it. Is it worth it?

You can also set the welfare plot to finished since that is handled by research not a separate story state. If you have the Tides expansion then you can set level two of that plot to finished as well. This side story requires you to give up a ship and all you get in return is a blueprint.

HQ with Boso and Dal: You skip the Hatikvah plot. You do not get the Callisto. You do not do the missions. You do not get the chance to board the older L size trader ship. Since all the Scale Plate Trader ships are updated to the newer model you will never be able to board that older type.

Dal by himself is not really worth it so you might think that you can just do the Hat plot again and grab those ships.

Paranid plot: You need Dal to unlock this.

Oh, so that's why we need Dal in the HQ.

I won't go into detail on this. You have a few options but basically, you can choose to skip the Paranid plot if you've already completed it. You don't get any ships during this plot and actually you have to give away some ships, maybe give away a station, and pay close to 2 Billion credits. WITH A B. BILLION.

Completing the Paranid plot does give you a great sense of satisfaction. However, do you ever want to do it again? Is that S size trader from the HAT plot worth a BILLION credits? Well, is it?

Split plot: This is similar to the Paranid plot. You skip having to pay a bunch of money. No matter how you set the plot you can independently adjust faction relations. You do miss out on one free split frigate and one free split trader. Are those ships worth having to pay between half a billion to over one billion credits? Well, are they?

Yaki plot: Don't skip this. I won't even say what you get or don't get, just don't skip this. If you skip you do not get anything while if you do it you get a lot.

Segaris plot: I hear a lot of people skip this but I never do. I actually like this mission and I get a free ship. I like free ships.

Covert: Dal is required. You can skip this. It saves you from having to give away a ship for nothing in return. However, if you want to participate in the big battles that this plot has, then don't skip it. This plot isn't about getting or giving away, it is about experiencing.

Curs: If you skip this plot you can get either a free ship at game start (for once) or some rep with with a faction. If you choose the rep with the faction then you will see some copies of that ship flying around and you can try to get the pilot to bail if you really want the ship. The blueprint is forever out of your reach no matter what you decide.

If you choose faction rep, then that faction will start to build additional stations, increasing economic opportunity. That might be worth giving up that ship.

Also, if you skip, you miss out on the ability to buy a ship from a guy in a bar. There is also an L size trader you can board that you miss.

But but but but but .... The curs plot is just cool. It is a cool experience. You might want to play it again just because it is cool, not difficult, and then get all of your rewards.

Northriver: If you skip this you get the blueprint without having to fight anyone. You can immediately go find an Astrid and try to take it. I see some people saying they can get two. I will try this but for me once I got one either there wasn't another one or the other was immortal. Maybe a patch changed this.

You can also set Northriver so that you can buy an Astrid instead fighting for one but then you don't get the blueprint. And the Astrid is over priced.

In either case you skip getting scammed out of a ship. You skip paying a bunch of money. You skip a pointless fight.

The Northriver plot is not cool and fun the way the Curs or Segaris plots are cool and fun. I set it to finished because I don't like being scammed.

Erlking: You can skip this. There is zero point is boarding the ship again. If you have Boso set to finished and you've fully upgraded the Erlking in the past then you can set the ship to be fully upgraded at game start. If you want the loot from the Data Vaults you can still go get them.

The Erlking full upgraded requires Boso. The Erlking plus all the research you can unlock right away is a very strong incentive to have the HQ at game start.

Boron: You can skip this but then you miss out on getting some free ships. You do get paid some money but you miss out on the ships. You can skip and get access to more sectors or you can do the very minimum story to open those sectors up. For me, I don't skip this.

Timelines: Skip this. There is no need to do the very short mission to get two ships. If you skip you are given the ships at game start.

As for the Hyperion, I'll have to see about it later.