Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

[mr.WHO]

People complain that Timeline adds significantly fewer ships compared to other DLCs, but I’d say it’s the same situation. The manpower was allocated to developing the free update, which explains the smaller number of new ships.

I think that the Terraformer ships have been shifted from Timelines to free update at last moment.

Too bad they didn't unleashed TImelines Xenon M0 and Khaak M0 on the open world galaxy - it would raise Timeline value a bit more (I think X4:RE plan to put them to Open world galaxy as well and making Khaak more organized in their mod).

[Raptor34]

Also on further thought, the CV redesign is frankly wasted effort imo, would have done better as other ship types instead. After all, since the build portion is separated out from TLs, you don't really use CVs for anything.

I would have to respectfully disagree. It's not a big change, nor is it something you particularly often look at yourself, but just cruising through the universe doing my stuff and just seeing these builders in the process it looks better with them having faction-specific looks instead of all being the same.

This sort of attention to small details really adds up to make a not insignificant difference to how the universe looks and feels.

I agree. And I'm not saying it's bad. But such things do have opportunity costs, and it would have been better if it was say directed to other ships you'll use and see more often.
Which is also why I never was bothered by all the original CVs looking the same, to me that's a bottom of the barrel issue.
If say like the OG TLs CVs also had large cargo holds for instance, then the effort there would be worth more.

[Dreamora]

First of all, thank you for your dedication and support over the past 26 years. It truly means a lot to us to have such passionate and long-time players in our community.

With regard to the Mini DLC, our goal is to continue expanding X4 in a way that offers meaningful content while maintaining our commitment to long-term support for the game. We know that our approach has evolved over the years, and we want to reassure you that our core value remains the same: delivering deep, long-term gameplay experiences without aggressive monetization practices.

As outlined in our roadmap news, our primary focus in 2025 is on delivering consistent and impactful improvements to the base game. Just as in the past, these base game updates will be free for all existing X4 players. At the same time, purchases of the Mini DLC, such as the upcoming X4: Hyperion Pack, will help support our ongoing development efforts.

If you haven’t seen it yet, we shared more details about our short- to mid-term plans for X4, including both free updates and Mini DLCs, in our roadmap update from November 2024. You can find it here: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app ... 8304123197

I feel better knowing that you have at heart dedicated to keeping monitization fair while balancing your ongoing development updates. My fear was that the SC culture would begin to leak into Egosoft or that form of funding would begin to be spoken into your ear until you decided to give it a go. With a DLC that consists of only a single ship, you can see how this might look from a customers perspective. In my head, the question becomes "whats next? instead of buying entire story's for expansions, now im going to have to buy each individual ship?" After your responce I feel better about it, but I am still on the fence. We will just have to see how this gets handled in time.

Thank you for your responces.

--More context-- Star Citizen is stuck in a funding loop of releasing extremely overpowered ships for sale and then nurfing them a few months after the sale ends in order to introduce another extremely over powered ship to gain more funding. I do not want to see this idea leak into Egosoft, one of the last remnants of good companies still around.

[flywlyx]

--More context-- Star Citizen is stuck in a funding loop of releasing extremely overpowered ships for sale and then nurfing them a few months after the sale ends in order to introduce another extremely over powered ship to gain more funding. I do not want to see this idea leak into Egosoft, one of the last remnants of good companies still around.

Star Citizen is a multiplayer game, and this approach is common in nearly all multiplayer games since players are competing against each other.
However, this kind of strategy doesn’t work in single-player games like X4. For example, Assassin’s Creed Odyssey also has overpowered microtransaction gear, but players simply don’t care. What works instead is a model like The Sims, Stellaris, or Euro Truck, where small DLCs continuously add new gameplay elements.

[Raptor34]

--More context-- Star Citizen is stuck in a funding loop of releasing extremely overpowered ships for sale and then nurfing them a few months after the sale ends in order to introduce another extremely over powered ship to gain more funding. I do not want to see this idea leak into Egosoft, one of the last remnants of good companies still around.

Star Citizen is a multiplayer game, and this approach is common in nearly all multiplayer games since players are competing against each other.
However, this kind of strategy doesn’t work in single-player games like X4. For example, Assassin’s Creed Odyssey also has overpowered microtransaction gear, but players simply don’t care. What works instead is a model like The Sims, Stellaris, or Euro Truck, where small DLCs continuously add new gameplay elements.

That and you can mod the game too.
OPness is an important part of the equation of course, but it's not the main one, quality and aesthetics are both more important qualities. Aesthetics is personal, but quality isn't. And of course quality is what would take a lot of work, and ultimately in many ways what you're actually paying for.
Though of course in this context I'm talking about the quality of the model itself, interiors and all that. Because I have no doubt there are probably going to be some stupid bugs laying around, though hopefully nothing actually game breaking.

[TroubledRabbit]

I must say that I kinda agree with OP. For a degree.

But I am 52 (53 soon) and that might mean I am just simply obsolete and unable to catch up any longer with the 'used to be screwed up' younger generations.

Seeing mini DLC as 'writing on the wall' is somewhat hysteric - it is not that the game would become unplayable without that Egosoft is still not Paradox - ~5Euro (give or take) might be much for someone and neglible for other for neutered (single S dock? really?) legendary Paranid toy, the whole point in getting it in X3* was that it was unique ship (and it was a corvette not L-class ship!), powerful (overpowerd even) in the player hands, but hard to get and mediocre otherwise (as AI-piloted ship, because 'AI'). Now it's supposed to be a 'quest'+sector+some music with price tag. Well... times change.

I appreciate the effort in keeping the game alive through updates.

I did not like Timelines either (bough that of the some kind of loyality) - the 'quest' was underwhelming (nothing new, 'questing' was never your forte guys), ships not interesting - some might have potential but their inability to upgrade is a deal breaker. When I want a new ship of some kind e.g. filling the big gap in design called 'frigates' (there is no frigates in the game - these ugly oversized boxes are not them) I am using mods designed to deliver just that.

I would pay for the 'low-quality' DLC, though (look at my spec) - just compress textures with lower resolution and use that damn 'optimise' button in 3D modelling software a few times using reasonable budget - the actual gap between game demands and delivery is absurd in the graphics quality dept. And the innate frame limiter, please. Then I can live my sim-space life in peace and prosperity.

There are design decisions which I accepted with resignation (station/ship pointless walking sim, pointless NPCs as an actual models/agents, nonsense station scanning minigame etc. - you know if some stuff was so quicly modded out from Rebirth, you might learn... and don't get me started about the 6.x 'crisis' nonsense - a clear example of the effort put in a wrong direction) just sometimes imagining what there could be if these dead ends could be omitted and talents, and dedication redirected.

Anyway, stll there. WIll I buy 'mini-dlc'? I dunno. Probably rather not, but many other will. So there will be more of that, anyway.

[StoneLegionYT]

I was under the impression we would see like a Ships DLC, but I thought this was multiple ships not one. That being said Egosoft been pretty crazy with giving us really good prices on DLC's. That being said I rather Buy 1-2 a year then 10 a year for Mini Ships. It also makes the game look bad as a person looking into the game. I see Train Simulator with 100 dlc's and all I think of is nope, I'm missing out screw that... Even though X4 Base game + Updates is worth it's value in gold... Outsiders don't see it the same way as we do.

That being said I still support Egosoft I love Egosoft and I want Egosoft to continue to exist for another 40 years I can die happy in my old age lol

I think there might be some miscommunication from the community too. PS I enjoyed Timelines. But people were saying they take a ships DLC. they Meant multiple ships like a ship pack. Basically people wanted timelines but instead minus the timelines part and just unlock it all in the base world.

My biggest issue is not how I see it because I understand and I know Egosoft not going put $20 on a ship let alone $300 like some games. But I worry what the outsiders the continued base we try to bring in will see it as a negative thing.


After reading the form post of the new DLC I kind of understand why exist. It looks like the developers wanted to focus mostly on the game itself the base game but of course they needed to still fund themselves put food on the table etc. So this was the DLC sort of to help them out but also something for us to play around with. I'm still not the biggest fan of it but then again I'm a person who would rather just give you 20 bucks for you to keep working on the game without getting anything back for it lol. The updates alone are worth every penny. So I guess I'm just more worried about the perception of others outside of our community.

[LameFox]

I think/hope the Hyperion is unique in that because it was just a ship so many people liked and they decided to give it special attention. But in general I agree, I'd rather see more total variety in ships than occasional special ships. To me the freedom to choose what you fly is a big part of what I like in X games. That feels eroded a bit when they start going all in on just a few ships, because then maybe you like the look of a ship but its stats are mediocre and its interior is almost nonexistent, while a ton of effort has gone into some other ship they want all the players to fly. If there was one thing Timelines did well, all those ships had somewhat interesting interiors, even when they're just a normal ship like a Cutlass or an F.

[brume]

To be fair, this year, Egosoft is planning to do major rework (fly model) and addition (diplomacy !) to the game. Therefore, I think it's okay if the DLC(s ?) this year are less loaded with content than the previous ones, and that is important to buy them to support these efforts, even without a great interest for the content, to support a tiny self-editing and producing game dev team that constantly pump a great amount of love into the game for FREE.

My point is : If you enjoy the free updates additions, please buy the DLC so they can continue improve this amazing game, that will be, I hope, still be developped for several years

[LameFox]

I would think making ships largely falls to different team members than things like diplomacy or the flight model.

[brume]

I would think making ships largely falls to different team members than things like diplomacy or the flight model.

That I do not know, but as a software developper in a handful of people sized team, I know too much of resource allocation problems and conflicts. Even if you have separate teams to works on different matters, it doesn't mean you don't have some resources/people in tension and that, at the end of day on your project planification will determine the project critical path and will limit the amount of work that can be done.

[db48x]

I don't intend to buy it either. I don’t like the idea of buying something just to “support the developer”. Release something excellent and new and I’ll buy it, but I agree that this just looks like a cash grab.

[Baconnaise]

I don't intend to buy it either. I don’t like the idea of buying something just to “support the developer”. Release something excellent and new and I’ll buy it, but I agree that this just looks like a cash grab.

I am of a similar sentiment. I only bothered to grab Tides of Avarice and Timelines for mod compatibility. I greatly dislike these two DLCs among other changes. The new roadmap concerns me and frankly doesn't interest me. I'm firmly settled on the opinion that Ego lost the plot since CoH (amazing DLC).

[mr.WHO]

I'm firmly settled on the opinion that Ego lost the plot since CoH (amazing DLC).

Kindom End was solid and on par with Terran/Split DLC.

[flywlyx]

Kindom End was solid and on par with Terran/Split DLC.

KE's plot is much shorter than COH and SV, likely because they’ve been focusing on the venture, which involves a lot of writing.
Meanwhile, Yasur is just an S fighter that has probably been in their plans for years, so we ended up getting an entire pack of ships and station modules.

[LameFox]

I suspect the KE plot was also shorter because on some level they realized it would be annoying to gate the faction behind a long campaign. As it was I recall some complaints even then about having to manually go and activate the content unlike in previous DLCs where participating in the story was optional.

[asdrubale]

KE''s plot is the weakest. You're given the worst type of ship for the job, but luckily the Boron have a carrier that makes you and the rest of their fleet redundant, so you can just sit parked in it until it's over and go get lauded for your skill and bravery.

[vvvvvvvv]

I don't intend to buy it either. I don’t like the idea of buying something just to “support the developer”. Release something excellent and new and I’ll buy it, but I agree that this just looks like a cash grab.

I am of a similar sentiment. I only bothered to grab Tides of Avarice and Timelines for mod compatibility. I greatly dislike these two DLCs among other changes. The new roadmap concerns me and frankly doesn't interest me. I'm firmly settled on the opinion that Ego lost the plot since CoH (amazing DLC).

I liked Avarice plot the most, because Curs and Dagobas felt like actual living beings for once, even with the reputation trap if you do things in a wrong order. Main reason to grab CoH is terran tech, I didn't enjoy their plot. KE gave me a literal headache. A 30 minute long lore dump delivered by incredibly enthusiastic high pitched squeaky voices that wouldn't shut up. That beacon placement mission was also one of the worst ones.

[CBJ]

I don't intend to buy it either. I don’t like the idea of buying something just to “support the developer”. Release something excellent and new and I’ll buy it, but I agree that this just looks like a cash grab.

Nobody is forcing you to buy anything, but the "cash grab" accusation is, frankly, a bit unreasonable.

We have improved and added to the base X4 game for over 6 years and plan to continue doing so. These additions and improvements are free for everyone who has the base game, but as developers we still have bills to pay. The various expansions, including the smaller ones such as the Hyperion Pack, are how we balance this.

If you like what you see in an expansion and buy it because of that then that's great, and if you want to buy it to help support the ongoing development of the free base game features then that's fine too. If you don't want to buy it then that's also OK, but please don't accuse us of shady practices!

[Feloidea]

I concur with CBJ. Whilst I would prefer more substantial DLCs or at least have such mini-DLCs deliver more than just one ship (and the missions to get it and its blueprints), it is important to note that Egosoft has so far supported their games with free content additions in major patches for far longer than is the norm for videogames and the pricing for major DLCs has been remarkably low compared to what they add to the game. So yeah, I'd prefer they go about it in a different way or at least make these ship pack DLCs more substantial, but I'm also aware that unlike other publishers/developers, they haven't tried to pry open my wallet at every corner so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and some good will until proven otherwise.

Some arguments can be made that most of these DLCs ought to have been part of the base game, however that would've meant a much longer development cycle if it would've been released at all considering that Egosoft is far from a giant in the industry with the funds to match. And even if we'd assume the game had been segmented to sell piecemeal in order to get it to us players faster and maintain a steady income for Egosoft I would make the argument that the total costs are still significantly below how other games with similar time periods of active support are being monetized.

I can't speak for everyone and individual enjoyment/sense of value is difficult if not impossible to quantify for comparisions, but I've certainly gotten way more entertainment out of X4 and its DLCs over the years than you could reasonably expect to get from the vast majority of games released in the same time period. And I haven't even gotten to really play some of the DLC content (haven't even started doing much of anything in the Boron DLC yet).


In short: criticism and different opinions about the mini-DLC content is appropriate to discuss at length and the value propositions will differ for many people. But accusing Egosoft of greedy/shady practices when we have an history pointing to the contrary is objectively misplaced. IF the mini-DLCs are going out of hand with charging money for minor piecemeal content, then we can start breaking out the pitchforks and I'll join in ... but until after we know what these DLCs will cost there's no point in accusing anyone of cash grabs or the likes.
I don't like defending companies as I don't get paid for it nor do they really need random people doing it for them but I'd suggest people remember they're dealing with Egosoft; not EA, Ubisoft, Activision-Blizzard or other publishers infamous for their ludicrous monetization practices and temper their expectations/fears accordingly.