Full scale systems from Elite in X5

[LameFox]

Not sure I really get the distinction between gates, accelerators, and highways. They all seem as much fantastical as each other to me. But in any case, I mean that if you were to use highways to travel around Sol slower than an accelerator does, that still seems like you create a really big system. Or do you mean to replace the accelerators with superhighways...? If those are notably slower to move us around over long distances I can't say I ever felt the difference.

[NightIntruder]

It's not the size of systems in X4 or Elite which really slows down performance.

Where did I say that size of sectors/systems slows down performance? Size of the universe - yes, which means bigger number of sectors/systems (that can be conquered).
To me, I said exactly what you're saying

I wouldn't want landing on planets either, I don't think it adds much to Elite, just keep it a space based game.

I agree that planets were boring in ED, after all there were dozens of billions of them. The game that mixed planets with a space combat in an excellent way is Infinite Battlescape. But you cannot halt the whole X4 universe just to switch for a different game of invading a planet. Unless you can
Anyway, landable planets/moons with seamless transition between space and atmospheric flight is doable, there are tiny indi studios that've already done it, but there's still the problem what to do with the whole emptiness of those celestial bodies and their meaning for a gameplay.

[alt3rn1ty]

Bit off topic, but can Elite be played off-line yet.
I think it has a solo mode these days, but does it still always need an internet connection?.

[NightIntruder]

Bit off topic, but can Elite be played off-line yet. I think it has a solo mode these days, but does it still always need an internet connection?.

I believe it cannot be played off line. The solo mode is there indeed, and although you won't meet other player in the universe, the way players shape the galaxy (power factions, goals, exploration, etc.) is constantly projected onto your gameplay. It's shame as when they close servers, we won't be able to play the game, and yeah stable internet connection is required during one's gameplay. When you loose the connection, you're kicked out from the game to the main menu.

[alt3rn1ty]

~ It's shame as when they close servers, we won't be able to play the game, and yeah stable internet connection is required during one's gameplay. When you loose the connection, you're kicked out from the game to the main menu.

Ugh!, that sucks. Inevitably the company will have to do that one day, and everyone will be left with a game that will never work again. Bit of a scam.

I waited for about 30 years looking out for an update to the title, I had Elite originally on Commodore 64, then a filled vector version of the same on Amiga 500+, and last was Elite Frontier on Amiga 1200 .. Hoped ever since for a more modern version of it, but then after Elite Dangerous was announced and literally a few months before they released it they told us all it would be online only, a big change to what was historically a single player offline game. I was huuugely dissappointed after waiting so long and then at the last moment they changed how it would work.

Ah well, glad I didn't buy it.

[NightIntruder]

I had Elite originally on Commodore 64, then a filled vector version of the same on Amiga 500+, and last was Elite Frontier on Amiga 1200 ..

The very same here, mate. Sometimes I feel like, we - the old pricks - have played some many games which never fully satisfied us that we're just trying to find pure perfection which obviously doesn't exist

Ah well, glad I didn't buy it.

If you have VR and HOTAS, you would love it anyway, I dare to say. But the AWW effect ends some day.

[Raptor34]

We don't even need a hundred systems imo. Like look at the X3 map, Argon space is literally 9 systems in a grid, or 12, it's been awhile. 12 systems? Does it actually add anything to the game? Not really, they are all Argon space and if it's 12 or 3 doesn't make a lick of difference....

Really! So you'd be fine with the Xenon (or whoever) easily running over a mere 3 Argon (or whoever) sectors and eliminating them from the game in short order. Numbers of sectors do matter, for many reasons - exploration, distribution of resources and factories, defense posture, and so on. I would not like to play a game with such a limited number of sectors. Your statement "they are all Argon space and if it's 12 or 3 doesn't make a lick of difference...." is just silly.

And been a while since you played the game? Argon sectors are not "in a grid". Some are separated by an Antigone sector, some are placed waaayyyy off in the NE corner behind Split, Teladi and Xenon sectors. Similarly for the Paranid. And if the Xenon, or perhaps HOP, takes Second Contact Flashpoint, the Antigone Republic is now split in two. The number and placement of sectors allows for all kinds of different NPC/NPC and Player/NPC interactions to take place. This wouldn't be possible with such a limited number of sectors as you propose.

You quoted the wrong person.
And the current interactions are tbh kinda shit anyway. You take the being invaded example, the factions do not protect their gates, so much for that interaction.
You also mentioned the other Argon sectors out there, that's what I actually want to see more of, not just a whole bunch of sectors clumped together which is kinda pointless, I want to see colonies off in other areas, not just a whole bunch around Argon Prime.

[Nanook]

We don't even need a hundred systems imo. Like look at the X3 map, Argon space is literally 9 systems in a grid, or 12, it's been awhile. 12 systems? Does it actually add anything to the game? Not really, they are all Argon space and if it's 12 or 3 doesn't make a lick of difference....

Really! So you'd be fine with the Xenon (or whoever) easily running over a mere 3 Argon (or whoever) sectors and eliminating them from the game in short order. Numbers of sectors do matter, for many reasons - exploration, distribution of resources and factories, defense posture, and so on. I would not like to play a game with such a limited number of sectors. Your statement "they are all Argon space and if it's 12 or 3 doesn't make a lick of difference...." is just silly.

And been a while since you played the game? Argon sectors are not "in a grid". Some are separated by an Antigone sector, some are placed waaayyyy off in the NE corner behind Split, Teladi and Xenon sectors. Similarly for the Paranid. And if the Xenon, or perhaps HOP, takes Second Contact Flashpoint, the Antigone Republic is now split in two. The number and placement of sectors allows for all kinds of different NPC/NPC and Player/NPC interactions to take place. This wouldn't be possible with such a limited number of sectors as you propose.

{edit: fixed misquote}

[chew-ie]

~ It's shame as when they close servers, we won't be able to play the game, and yeah stable internet connection is required during one's gameplay. When you loose the connection, you're kicked out from the game to the main menu.

Ugh!, that sucks. Inevitably the company will have to do that one day, and everyone will be left with a game that will never work again. Bit of a scam.

I waited for about 30 years looking out for an update to the title, I had Elite originally on Commodore 64, then a filled vector version of the same on Amiga 500+, and last was Elite Frontier on Amiga 1200 .. Hoped ever since for a more modern version of it, but then after Elite Dangerous was announced and literally a few months before they released it they told us all it would be online only, a big change to what was historically a single player offline game. I was huuugely dissappointed after waiting so long and then at the last moment they changed how it would work.

Ah well, glad I didn't buy it.

Yeah, that's a real shame indeed. I too played Elite on Amiga 500 [a lot]. Was super excited about the "reboot" after so many years / decades. Only to learn about always on - was immediately repelled by that and Elite died that day for me

---

@OP One of the moments I absolutely love in X4 is the flight from Hatikvah's Choice III to Hatikvah's Choice I. Zooming in to that huge planet with the speed of the superhighway makes me wish we could freely travel the stars of the X universe in that manner ...

[vvvvvvvv]

Elite has some good things going for it. While I prefer X4 overall, there are some things Elite in my opinion does much better than X4, and I kind of wish were included in some future X game.

One such thing is full scale systems that are in Elite. I would love if travel within systems in X4 were like Elite, with the Supercruise being used instead of the X4 travel drive. No highways or accelarators needed. The sense of scale using supercruise around planets in Elite is incredible.

I would like there to be actual orbital mechanics, with positions of stations, jumpgates, planets, and moons changing over time, maybe sped up like 10 fold compared to reality.

Jump gates could still be a thing, they would just be in orbit around planets or moons or the sun. We wouldn't need 400 billion systems, just maybe ~100 systems connected by gates. I wouldn't want landing on planets either, I don't think it adds much to Elite, just keep it a space based game.

Elite, with the dynamic and more realistic economy of X4, and without spawning ships and the need to always be connected to a server, would be my dream game.

That's actually something I'd like to see in this game, though I think it can be patched into X4. It would need an additional, faster drive, though. Some sort of "System travel" mode which is even faster than travel drive. If you played with Elite, you should know, that even at multiples of lightspeed approaching distant planets can take time.

This would need a better sector map, though. Existing sectors and gates could be tied to some sort of lagrange points.

[vvvvvvvv]

Really! So you'd be fine with the Xenon (or whoever) easily running over a mere 3 Argon (or whoever) sectors and eliminating them from the game in short order...

Uhh....

The primary issue here that space is not sectors. Sectors are an abstraction. Each Argon system, accessible by gate, likely has nigh-infinite resources. For example, imagine trying to consume all material from Jupiter. That will last humans, what, probably a few million years?

The game ties resources to sector, but that's a simplification.

In real world, for example, it would not be possible to retake Atiya's Misfortune, as any ship that wanders in would be greeted by a small strike group of a ten million xenon ships. You know, 100 thousand Ks, and the rest is escort. That's because Xenon would be consuming nearby planet for resources. The game does not do that in order to let the player win and we get equivalent of Space Skyrim. A scaled down model of what real world could've been.

So the idea would be to shift from sectors to systems. Meaning, a sector is part of the system, that can be conveniently reached from the gate, and it is easy to grab stuff in vicinity. But there's also the rest of the system. Where you can fly around, mine, build station and travel takes significant time. That would require a rework, however, but that is not strictly necessary. It is possible to just let the player break away from gate and explore, while NPCs stick to the gate "sector".

[Nanook]

... It is possible to just let the player break away from gate and explore, while NPCs stick to the gate "sector".

Which would be pointless, since the whole point of the game is the interactions between the player and the NPC's. Unless, of course, you're seeking to make the player safe from all enemies by building where the NPC's can't or won't go.

And with the current travel drive, it would take the player RL hours to get anywhere 'out of sector'. You'd have to invent new forms of travel to do that. Oh, wait, that's what gates, etc., do. So you'd in effect be creating new sectors. Ahah! I see your evil plan now. Brilliant!

[Falcrack]

... It is possible to just let the player break away from gate and explore, while NPCs stick to the gate "sector".

Which would be pointless, since the whole point of the game is the interactions between the player and the NPC's. Unless, of course, you're seeking to make the player safe from all enemies by building where the NPC's can't or won't go.

And with the current travel drive, it would take the player RL hours to get anywhere 'out of sector'. You'd have to invent new forms of travel to do that. Oh, wait, that's what gates, etc., do. So you'd in effect be creating new sectors. Ahah! I see your evil plan now. Brilliant!

You're imagining limitations which would not exist in the system I am suggesting. I said to replace travel drive with Elite supercruise. Which can traverse systems in a couple minutes at several times the speed of light.

[jonny_taco]

I don't think you even have to get rid of travel mode tbh. Normal flight mode can be hundreds of ms, Travel flight mode can be thousands of ms, System traverse mode (super cruise) can be millions to billions of ms and then jump gates to connect the systems. In any case, fullish scale systems with some kind of system traversal high speed travel mode is far better at portraying the distances and scale of space than the sectors we currently have, for me at least. This is why I absolutely agree with the OP that figuring out a good way to do this should be a major focus of X5.

[vvvvvvvv]

Which would be pointless, since the whole point of the game is the interactions between the player and the NPC's. Unless, of course, you're seeking to make the player safe from all enemies by building where the NPC's can't or won't go.

And with the current travel drive, it would take the player RL hours to get anywhere 'out of sector'. You'd have to invent new forms of travel to do that. Oh, wait, that's what gates, etc., do. So you'd in effect be creating new sectors. Ahah! I see your evil plan now. Brilliant!

Currently, the game does not feel like player is flying in star systems. It feels like a GRID. Break away from the gate would break perception of the grid and make it a game about stars and star systems. Gates cannot resolve this problem in their current form.

I do not get much out of interactions with NPCs in this game, by the way. I get the most out of building and making fleets. NPCs are a background. They also are not exactly a threat. But if the idea is extra challenge, then the space outside of the gates could be densely populated with xenon and khaak. That would give a decent reason to have fleets. Sectors are too small for the fleets players can build, and breaking away from the gate would give more space to manuever and fight.

So, the point would be to make space feel like space and not a grid, to provide space for more complex combat strategies, etc.

[Poacher886]

From ELITE , X5 needs

ALL of the Sounds!!!!

Cockpit detail and function.

The Ship system Mechanics, that is the ability to craft your ships with certain advantages . disadvantages, i.e personalise them.

[Y-llian]

Modder @Realspace has attempted to transform X4 into “real” solar systems. Some lovely work actually including changing sky boxes and adding sectors to go with a real solar system architecture.

viewtopic.php?t=427585

XR, I felt, did the universe architecture better and you actually had a sense of travelling to different bodies inside a solar system. When you traversed a gate there was also a much stronger sense that you arrived in a new system e.g. DeVries v Albion.

But, from what I remember, the community complained about travel times and for X4, Ego opted for a model similar to X3 but where individual sectors are larger. That said, it is several years ago now so I may be misremembering some of the debates…