(mechanics question) If you remove xenon from certain parts of the map...

[Axeface]

...do they get to build their entire ship quota in the remaining sectors? Or does the ship quota get adjusted? Eg, if the xenon were pushed to only one area like scale plate green, would they be able to defend it with a stupid amount of capital ships?

[Raptor34]

I'm curious about this too. Also about whether they'll stuff all their wharves/shipyards in one sector.
I've heard conflicting reports.

[j.harshaw]

depends on the job quota. if there's a sector or cluster quota in addition to the galaxy quota, they're limited to the respective numbers of ships per sector/cluster although they may concentrate more if their galaxy quota wasn't enough to fill the number of sectors/clusters they had before. if the job definition only has a galaxy quota, they're set up to fill that quota even if they only have one sector.

[Alkeena]

I could see this being an interesting change, BUT if you were to mod it in you'd also need to do something about resource yield in their starting sector(s). They might mine themselves out quit quickly otherwise.

[Axeface]

depends on the job quota. if there's a sector or cluster quota in addition to the galaxy quota, they're limited to the respective numbers of ships per sector/cluster although they may concentrate more if their galaxy quota wasn't enough to fill the number of sectors/clusters they had before. if the job definition only has a galaxy quota, they're set up to fill that quota even if they only have one sector.

Interesting, when you say sector or cluster quota do you mean some kind of per-system ship quota, or a quota for the amount of sectors the faction is allowed to take over? Do you know (or anyone else?) how this applies to the xenon?

Im asking because im about to save a certain faction by removing the xenon from tharkas/matrix79b and savage spur and ive got a lot of concerns that the lack of xenon in the center of the map will lead to a stagnant game. Also, the xenon in my game are getting hit hard and seem to be barely holding on (and thats with me capping 12 asgards to help them), I wonder/hope that maybe a good side-effect of clearing them out there is that it might actually strengthen them in their other strongholds. Would really appreciate some clarification because Im not sure what to do to ensure my game doesnt crawl to a halt.

[j.harshaw]

do you mean some kind of per-system ship quota, or a quota for the amount of sectors the faction is allowed to take over?

Sorry I was unclear. I meant quotas of specific ship groups that the xenon are set up to try and maintain. These ship groups are disparate, ranging from large fleets to single Ts that they send out for reconnaissance. Each of these groups have quotas, some distributed very evenly, some deliberately very unevenly, some set to stretch such that gaps are produced if a faction expands past a certain point, some allowed to concentrate as a faction loses ground. It's difficult to precisely predict what the effects of them losing ground would be (deliberately so), but assuming a perfect ability to build all of the ships that they want, they should tend to concentrate in what ground is left to them.

For example, one of their fleets is comprised of a K, 3 Ps, and 12 Ms or Ns. (There is some variability with some of the fleets but this particular one is very rigid.) This fleet has a galaxy quota of 6, and a cluster quota of 4. At game start, these fleets might concentrate in two clusters leaving gaps elsewhere, or spread out over six clusters spreading themselves thin. If they lose ground, they tend to concentrate, reaching maximum saturation at 2 clusters assuming they are able to build all of these fleets with the resources and production capacity of those two clusters.

Hope that made sense, and sorry if it still doesn't. This stuff's been in my head for so long now that it can be a bit difficult to work out how to explain.

[jlehtone]

One could express that as:

Code: Select all

jobs in sector <= min( sector quota, galaxy quota );
jobs in galaxy <= galaxy quota

The missing quotas are infinite.
In practice, sector quota <= galaxy quota; a sector can't have more than the galaxy.
If sector quota == galaxy quota, then fleets of faction remain same no matter how many sectors they control. Expansion spreads them thin.
If sector quota << galaxy quota, then fleets of faction can/will grow when they expand. These factions can steamroll.

Lets say that there is only one Xenon SY. Then it can build at most 4 of those jobs, unless some of them sail out to other sectors. If two sail out, then SY can build the remaining two to reach the galaxy limit of 6.

There is a consequence.
Lets say that the 6 jobs are spread to 6 sectors. We "have fun" in four central sectors. Four dead jobs. The Almighty RNG does not rebuild jobs where they were lost, but into the other two sectors. As long as they remain untouched, the central sectors cannot rebuild.

In other words, if we want the Xenon to be able to defend #79B, then we should raid Emperor, Scale Plate, etc. to give Xenon a chance to rebuild in #79B (if lucky and if they have resources). The "luck" part we can work with repetition (or simply blowing up their SY).


This seems to be a basic theme in X-games:
The best way to help/gain love of faction is to kill them.

[Axeface]

Thanks all that clears it up, hope it works that way in practice and the factions start hitting a wall when they try to take the xenon in their remaining strongholds.

[spankahontis]

Explains why (In my Playthrough) Savage Spur I + II with 2 Wharfs and 2 Shipyards isn't producing any Ships despite there being plenty of resources to mine?
Scale Plate Green is where all the action is with the Xenon.
Everywhere else? Quiet, or dead.

[billsherwin]

I'm 34+ days (800+ hours) into X4 and have wiped out all the Xenon, taking over all their Sectors, although they keep trying to rebuilld a Shipyard and Wharf in Matrix #9. My game economy is doing fine, all the Factions are building stations and running Traders. ANT and ARG are still at each others throats, fighting over Second Contact. TEM (Duke) has appeared after I built their Shipyard in Tempest for the Paranid Plot and they have built a fleet to hassle PAR with. I've got a Shipyard that supplies the Yaki so they keep raiding TER. I supported ZYA and supplied them with ships so they're now going head to head with ARG in contested Sectors, all of which keeps the game economy pumped up. The FAF and SCA are just raiding so decided to leave them alone for now. With the ToA DLC VIG are growing strong so I may need to stomp on them at some point.

So, in summary, there is still plenty of activity and lots to keep me interested in the game. Wiping out the Xenon definitely doesn't make the game boring.

P.S. This is based on a CoH Terran start and is a vanilla game.

[Alan Phipps]

Thanks, but this is a 3 year dormant thread and a lot has changed in the game since then.