Who exactly is Timelines for? Why would the devs waste time on this vs improving the sandbox?

[raUlo]

For future content I advise avoiding "new little side projects" that no-one asked for and just sticking to what you are good at. I advise spending your previous and expensive development time improving the core sandbox game and not on large pieces of disposable "play once then forget" content that add little to the overall experience. I advise sticking to what your playerbase actually wants to spend their hard-earned money on...

Ever since Timelines came out people constantly complain as if Egosoft would've given up on improving the sandbox element of the game, even with concrete evidence that this is quite the contrary (the 7.0 update). So they came up with an interesting idea, something different that's besides the sandbox. So what? It's their product and it's their right to do whatever they want with it. Why is it so wrong for a game developer to try to innovate and reach wider audiences besides the already established fanbase? Which is exactly what the idea was with Timelines. Sure, it didn't go well considering the level of difficulty has been highly criticised, but this is something that can be worked on.

And the fact that you don't like it doesn't mean that it doesn't add much to the overall experience. In which case it's simple, just skip this DLC. You might not be aware, but the fanbase also consists of people like myself who are really into the story element of the game. An aspect in which Timelines excels and I dare to say leads right now out of all DLCs.

So that being said, I think Egosoft should do as many "new little side projects" as they want. I'm pretty sure that with their 20+ years experience they don't need anyone's advice on what to do with their product

[Ragnos28]

And the fact that you don't like it doesn't mean that it doesn't add much to the overall experience. In which case it's simple, just skip this DLC.

I did skip it, but my understanding is that players that complain about the DLC, actually bought the DLC, and if you pass the 2 hour mark on steam, skiping it is no longer an option?

[Marco Nero]

Do not waste resources on other things then the main game please, it needs other fixes and add-ons. It was relased in 2018 and still we have some base issues.

I know you are saying "but we provide full 7.0 patch plus a new dlc!", that's fine but that resources could and MUST be spended lot better in the main game.

Please stop this logic, stop things like this or ventures and invest all resources on the main single game.

This will be the first DLC i will not buy just for fact.

[Ergoswot]

So that being said, I think Egosoft should do as many "new little side projects" as they want. I'm pretty sure that with their 20+ years experience they don't need anyone's advice on what to do with their product

If you really believe that experienced people can't make mistakes or make bad decisions then you are really not informed with how the gaming industry and indeed human behaviour works.

Egosoft are people and people are more than capable of making bad decisions regardless of their experience. Experienced gaming companies make bad decisions, they release things they shouldn't, they stray from successful paths. The gaming and media industry at large is literally full of example of this.

But it's ok, I realize your post was rooted in defensiveness on behalf of Egosoft as opposed to rational and objective logic.

I think it's the weakest DLC thus far. However, I want to support Egosoft in their continued development of the "Open Universe" aka, the main game.

Yup. this is the common sentiment I am seeing across the interwebs whenever Timelines is discussed. People don't generally like the DLC but are "buying it to support Egosoft".

It's good for Egosoft that they have such a patient and dedicated community that tives them a free pass (financially speaking) for mistakes like this and lets just hope that they don't make the same mistake again. However, I have a feeling that they are sitting in their offices a little bummed out at the negativity, but also I think they are getting the feedback loud and clear as their slightly panicky FAQ update showed. https://steamcommunity.com/games/392160 ... 3?snr=2___

They will learn from this what their userbase wants and sometimes that is needed to renew focus on what really matters.

[Scoob]

Here's the thing, and I think I mentioned this before, I'm pretty pleased with the extras it's added into my actual game. New sectors, new ships etc. However, to have to NOT play my actual game to get them. Nope. Glad it's an unlock option in a fresh custom start. That's what I did.

Also, while I'm certainly not a fan of Racing in Timelines, it does look like they've fleshed out the Racing mechanic. Are there race tracks and events to enter in the regular game to make proper use of this? If it's just in Timelines, then it's largely wasted on me.

So, a DLC introducing new content is the norm, but having to go outside the game proper to unlock them, rather than it being part of the in-game narrative is not a good choice in my view.

While it's the DLC I've played through the least, due to its relative newness, I thought the Boron DLC was the best handled. A new plot line so the player actually unlocks the new content via missions. I wish ALL the other DLC's were handled this way. At least, a game-start option to have any new DLC sectors already open (custom start) OR have a short plotline around the opening a new gate. So, the player can effectively control when new sectors open up.

Next DLC: Scan this QR code with your phone to unlock new goodies in the game! Order you pack of 10 random QR Codes now!

[Socratatus]

I am really struggling to see how the Timelines DLC is the DLC that players are wanting or were eve asking for. Players generally want the sandbox to be the best it can possibly be and Egosoft should have stayed committed to focusing on that, because X4 still has a lot of content that could be added and issues that need fixing and improving. The sandbox is the USP of this game and the only reason it is so popular.

This DLC definitely will not be getting my money and it's a shame to see so people here and on Reddit write: "I won't play it but will buy it anyway to support the devs". We should not be rewarding devs by spending our money on things we do not need.

The devs certainly won't be getting my money and I bet will lose out on many other sales too as a result of this really strange decision to take the game in a different and seemingly unasked for direction.

I also had my worries when I first heard about this.

They should've just stayed in the sandbox and left us the freedom to do it at our leisure much as with all the other DLCs. A huge error in my view.

[raUlo]

But it's ok, I realize your post was rooted in defensiveness on behalf of Egosoft as opposed to rational and objective logic.

It was rooted in rational and objective criticism regarding your statements that Egosoft should avoid "side projects". A constructive feedback from people who played the DLC, with emphasis on what was liked/disliked and why, would be not only sufficient but also more helpful than "business decision advice". As I said it's their product and their right to do what they want with it.

And talking about rational and objective, the very title of this thread refers to 2 things:

1. That work on Timelines is "wasted time" which is clearly not. A good portion of the fanbase reviewed Timelines positively on Steam, most likely even taking into account the people that did that only because they support Egosoft. And proof for that is simply scrolling through the list of reviews, it won't be hard to find people outlining those aspects where the DLC delivered and created something of value.

I would argue that a more polished version of Timelines would've gathered a lot less negative feedback. But for now, the mere existence of this community feedback on what worked and what didn't is crucial in further development of X4, so it's hardly wasted time

2. That Egosoft did not focus/is not focusing on the sandbox element of the game, which to me is harder to grasp considering that with every patch the list of improvements grows bigger. They never stated that they'll stop working on the open universe mode and the base game just received update 7.00, yet somehow people think that the focus isn't on the sandbox.

If you think Timelines was a mistake, I actually do recommend that you look for the positive reviews on Steam. You'll see quite a few people who also enjoy other aspects of X4 besides the sandbox and consider that Timelines actually brings something of value to the whole experience. They're most likely the people that Egosoft were targeting with this DLC.

But it's ok, I realise your post was rooted in defensiveness on behalf of the sandbox aspect of X4 as opposed to rational and objective logic

[jlehtone]

Some prefer the sandbox sans stories, plots, and set goals. Their true adversary is shortage of imagination that may one day catch them.

Some shun such "freedom" and crave for set goals and lore. However, "good missions" are hard to implement. If you let player use anything from the sandbox, then people will enter with anything from bare spacesuit to maximum overkill armadas. Good luck making your mission logic cope with all combos. That is why more and more "story missions" tend to be in confined space without access to everything that the player has. Not being in the sandbox is just new extreme on that.

Besides, if your character spends all the time in the PHQ, micro-managing player empire, then what would be the incentive for such character to go personally fly a racer in some murky corner? They would hire the best jockeys that money can, if care about race at all. (If you can assign auto-racers to generate steady profit from the thing, then races are a business.)

Anyway, that makes Timelines to be apparently for the "I want you to give me things to do" demographics.


Grading. Some places do use normal distribution -- best gets 5, worst 1 and most do get 3. An alternative is absolute scale that could be so easy that even the worst can get 5, or the bar so high that even the best reach only 2 and many fail completely. Imagine DLC unlocks that practically nobody could reach. The Timelines is not that bad, is it?

Also, while I'm certainly not a fan of Racing in Timelines, it does look like they've fleshed out the Racing mechanic. Are there race tracks and events to enter in the regular game to make proper use of this? If it's just in Timelines, then it's largely wasted on me.

To my knowledge the regular game has never had races. Some stories have had a race (X3R?, X4), but story missions are IMHO not "regular game". (The X2/X3R BBS had fluff and "deliver treats to pilots" missions, so we heard that there are races without ever seeing one.)


Every X4 DLC has added sector(s) that you cannot "access" without some "unlock". Most by "plots", missions. In that sense the Timelines is not special, albeit perhaps more extreme. Btw, is it a bit skewed that we get more content to the base game without paying extra nor doing any unlock, but we have to both pay and do some unlock action in order to gain part of DLC content?

[Karvat]

What I hate most about this DLC is the feeling of having to pay 12 euros for new content that I would really enjoy, but having to go through hours of mandatory, useless, and atrociously boring scenarios to unlock each piece one at a time, scoring insufficient stars to be able to move forward.

[alt3rn1ty]

Also, while I'm certainly not a fan of Racing in Timelines, it does look like they've fleshed out the Racing mechanic. Are there race tracks and events to enter in the regular game to make proper use of this? If it's just in Timelines, then it's largely wasted on me.

There is a race track in Freedoms Reach, but I think its possibly just a tourist attraction like the M0 wreck in Matrix #101.
I have only just completed (most of) TImelines today, and so far I haven't caught anything offering races down there.
But that could be for the same reason Egosoft is showcasing big battles in Timelines ..
.. Too much going on in an advanced game would hit the FPS bad for smooth racing.
But then .. why do we get so many free racing ships which are useless?. Confused.
I very much enjoyed the racing (which is unusual for me), so am looking for more.

[Scoob]

Every X4 DLC has added sector(s) that you cannot "access" without some "unlock". Most by "plots", missions. In that sense the Timelines is not special, albeit perhaps more extreme. Btw, is it a bit skewed that we get more content to the base game without paying extra nor doing any unlock, but we have to both pay and do some unlock action in order to gain part of DLC content?

I don't think that's right. To unlock the Boron sectors we had a set of missions to follow, but that was a first for X4 DLC at the time. Split sectors instantly unlocked the moment you first loaded your game with the DLC installed, same with the VIG/RIP stuff and TER too. There are of course missions once you enter these new sectors, but they're open from the start / upon installation of the DLC. When starting a new game with all the DLCs enabled (prior to Timelines) all DLC sectors except the Boron are also open - no missions to unlock them. So, prior to Timelines only the Boron DLC has missions to unlock the new sectors. Of course, unlocking the Boron sectors occurred in the actual main game aka "open universe", not separate instances like Timelines.

Timelines, while there are some fun missions, largely left me a bit bored or frustrated. I found a lot of the "Filler" missions just plain dull. I stuck at it for a while, but when I was asked to Race again, mine again and trade again I was done. If most of the missions were indeed true re-telling of "classic" X-game missions, or significant events from a different perspective, I'd have liked that. In the end, I started a fresh custom game, unlocking ALL the Timelines content. Which, as per prior DLC excepting the Boron one, had NO in-game missions to unlock. New sectors were just there.

So, the Boron sectors remain the only sectors the player unlocks by actual missions in their actual sandbox universe. The idea of going into Timelines, doing a mission, logging out of timelines and loading my actual save just to get content really isn't great. I was so put off by all this that I was going to file edit to enable it in my game in progress. However, as I didn't want to risk breaking anything, I just started a new game with everything unlocked.

As an aside, I started a new game and I've explored most of the sectors added by the various DLCs, bar some of the North-Eastern Split and North-Western Split and Paranid. I had thus far triggered NO missions of any sort related to these new sectors. I know how to trigger them, I've chosen not to. I simply want access to the sectors at this time.

X games are a Sandbox, taking the player OUT of that Sandbox to unlock new content is a very odd move. Quite happy with what's been added to my game proper, glad I didn't have to to all the Timelines missions to get it! Thank you custom start.

[chew-ie]

Every X4 DLC has added sector(s) that you cannot "access" without some "unlock". Most by "plots", missions. In that sense the Timelines is not special, albeit perhaps more extreme. Btw, is it a bit skewed that we get more content to the base game without paying extra nor doing any unlock, but we have to both pay and do some unlock action in order to gain part of DLC content?

I don't think that's right. To unlock the Boron sectors we had a set of missions to follow, but that was a first for X4 DLC at the time.

jlehtone is right. To date I never saw the plot-hidden split sector (despite having two major Split role-play saves) and I've never seen the plot-hidden ToA sector as well. And I've thousands of hours in the X4 "sandbox".

[jlehtone]

True, SV and ToA had only one sector each behind a plot-lock -- not all of their sectors.

You can kill everyone in inner Sol from word go, but you do need more reputation to trade there than in any other part of X Universe. Yes, one can argue that that is not a "real lock".

X games are a Sandbox, taking the player OUT of that Sandbox to unlock new content is a very odd move. ... Thank you custom start.

One could also note that the Budgeted Start has very low budget, until one has played "outside" of it with different start(s).

[Tharrg]

I think Timelines would have been better received if it had been built into the Sandbox game.

Your sandbox character does something that introduces them to the Timeilones station. When they successfully do a timelines mission there they get a mission pointer to the new stuff they just unlocked.

The disconnect between Timelines and Sandbox causes people to lose interest.

I guess there was some technical issue as to why this was difficult to do.

[Mr.Killer]

I just bought it....... Don't really know what it is for, I have a guess however, but I really don't care. Giving the devs room to develope a game that has 14 years??? made a lot of people 'happy' and I do not want to miss out on some things that might occur on a DLC I don't have, so, that is my motivation; strengthen the devs and don't misguide on a traject I make ingame.

Keep it up devs, I know you can!

[Scoob]

jlehtone is right. To date I never saw the plot-hidden split sector (despite having two major Split role-play saves) and I've never seen the plot-hidden ToA sector as well. And I've thousands of hours in the X4 "sandbox".

Ok, there are those exceptions sure, however when talking about the sectors added by DLC in general, we get all other sectors at once. ALL other Split sectors open the moment you install the DLC / start a new game. Same for Terran, same for Avarice bar the one you mention. Only the Boron DLC has all the new sectors locked behind in-game missions. I actually prefer that. Some in-game event to open things up. I like delaying the Boron stuff until I'm a little better established, though it is perfectly possible to start it quickly. Timelines is unique in that sectors are unlocked outside of the sandbox. Basically, upon installing those prior DLC (bar Boron) all except two mission-locked sectors are available instantly. Obviously, once Timelines is completed, a fresh start will see those sectors open right away - as it was with my custom start.

I generally choose a custom start these days, as I can limit or challenge myself as I wish. It's a bonus that this allows me to bypass the external Timelines unlocks, though I'd FAR rather there was an in-game unlock. I.e. if Timelines unlocked a MISSION in the sandbox to discover those new sectors, rather than just opening them right away. It's jarring. Were these sectors isolated prior to unlocking them? Were they running self-contained before unlocking in Timelines in a game in progress? I understand the Boron sectors are still fully simulated before the player unlocks them, are the timelines added ones the same? Could they even survive isolated? I assume it's scripted so hostiles - such as Kha'ak and Pirates - cannot just spawn in, else the player could arrive "late to discover nothing but debris... which would sort of be cool lol.

[Scoob]

One could also note that the Budgeted Start has very low budget, until one has played "outside" of it with different start(s).

The Budgeted start can be very glitchy. I've unlocked the advanced starts, higher budget etc. through gameplay. I then did a new start for a Beta, which then somehow reset the things I'd previously unlocked. I ended up having to file edit as even returning to my save that unlocked stuff, wasn't enough to unlock those options again. Up until running into these issues, the Budgetted start was perfect for me as I like a minimalist start.

[jlehtone]

Ok, there are those exceptions sure, however when talking about the sectors added by DLC in general, we get all other sectors at once.

Were we? I wasn't. I was pointing out that the idea of DLC sectors that have to be unlocked has clearly existed starting from SV.

Did we call that idea a bad one after SV? After ToA? After KE? No, I'm afraid that general consensus was "great". Why hadn't Egosoft continue on that path? Almost everything that I don't like in the game I can trace back to "feature requested by players".


Do the Boron starts allow you to live confined within Kingdom End until you unlock the "base game"? If yes, then that was novel but also sort of "outside".

[Scoob]

Were we? I wasn't. I was pointing out that the idea of DLC sectors that have to be unlocked has clearly existed starting from SV.

Did we call that idea a bad one after SV? After ToA? After KE? No, I'm afraid that general consensus was "great". Why hadn't Egosoft continue on that path? Almost everything that I don't like in the game I can trace back to "feature requested by players".


Do the Boron starts allow you to live confined within Kingdom End until you unlock the "base game"? If yes, then that was novel but also sort of "outside".

Oh indeed, the idea was there... I remember the original Getsu Fune unlock in Extension lol. I personally wish more sectors were behind a mission wall, some sort of discovery or of course research. When originally introduced, having new sectors and Factions available in my already established game universe was great. That said, I do tend to ultimately restart with a big update and/or DLC. When starting a new game, I've considered keeping the DLC's disabled, "unlocking" them as I approach the new areas, so they're introduced more gradually. Split being largely wiped out before I naturally first encounter them has happened. I've also role played deliberately staying in TER space for several game days, establishing my economy there, before venturing forth. That was quite fun.

I'm sure there are many features that you love that were also once suggestions by the player-base. Are you saying Timelines originated from a Player suggestion? The only "outside the sandbox" things I support are things like some sort of Training (which we have) or a Battle Simulator type thing. There is a separate Station Design mode isn't there? I can see the value of that too.

While I've done the Boron plot-line, I've not actually done either of the Boron Starts. Reading on these forums, my understanding was that the appropriate areas are unlocked, depending which of the two starts you choose.

At the end of the day, I was pleased to read that Timelines way of delivering new content was a one-off, unlikely to be repeated. Give us more stuff like the prior DLCs, I want to stay in my Sandbox. For me, as I unlocked it all via a custom start, that's basically what my Sandbox "Open Universe" game has gotten - all the new sectors (that I'm aware of) and other new content available there from the start pretty much,

[Galinet]

• Introduce players who haven't played all the previous games to some of the interesting events in the history of the X Universe.

I did see some of these events but would have appreciated them more had there been more context, maybe instead of having just 1 mission that historical event could have been better told across multiple missions. It's been too long since I played X1, X2, X3 that I forget their stories, their events. I needed more information to better grasp the significance of these events.

Spoiler

Show

For example in one mission I went to 3 spots to gather a fleet and then destroyed a gate which brought the Xenon outside of Terran space. I take this to be the origin of the Xenon propagating out of Terran sectors and the Terrans being cut off, until the Cradle of Humanity when Terrans reappear. Apparently their gates were repaired and they reconnected with the other sectors? I guess I am no longer clear on how that happened, even though it wasn't that long ago. But if only the Mars gate was destroyed then wouldn't the Terrans be accessible via Asteroid Belt or Segaris???

Maybe what I find lacking in Timelines is a story that evolves from one mission to another. As it currently stands I do the missions and they all see to be disconnected, unrelated.