What is the best M7 for a capital killer?

[dony93]

The Carrack and the Panther are just bad in FL. No way they can be ranked "S": the Carrack is less durable than a M6 (it has a little bit more shielding but it's much bigger), mediocre firepower, but it's fun; the Panther has no frigate-grade weapons and low shielding, so it's totally useless against capital ships. Same goes for Q: bad frigate, only good OOS.

[-XeNoN-]

Ok let me explain:

Q -> the OOS combat is fixed and why is it in S tier is because of PSG and i've tested it
Carrack -> S tier is because it can fire Boarding Pods, can equip PBC, has good turret coverage, good steering and speed, personally best M7, only issue is shielding other than that its buffed in FL
Panther M7D -> with PBC/PALC loaded and with drone deployement can be really powerful, the reason its an A tier is because you need some time to equip it, worst issues is its only 1 GJ shielding, but with swarm of Drones which attack the enemies, theyre deadly
Panther raider -> normal version is still good ship
Tiger -> same as before in previous games
Shrike/Tern/Agamemnon -> well balanced ships but they shine with pandora tunnings although some have bad main battery placement

In my playthrough i completely skipped M7 cause its not worth it, if you capture Carrack youre already on a good way

The reason im saying this is just get PX, Enhanced Heavy Dragon and Acinonyx

PX for: Capital killing cause it can mount FBC's on front main battery if you cap it and its more durable than EHD
EHD: Available in Rhonkar's Trial, this M6+ is a beast especially equipped with PBG's in main battery and x4 PBC's on its top turret, only issue is its shielding and cargo space for energy cells basically
Acinonyx: ISR's, support lasers, high shielding, speed, boarding pods, hammer torpedoes -> great for boarding, personal ship but kinda mediocre in terms of fighting capitals

[SurfingSpaceMonkey]

I'm gonna jump on the Carrack bandwagon and praise it even more.
It's a beast in player hands. 8xPBC on the broadsides may be misleading as they can cover the top too at mid/long range. It's quite easy to circle an enemy cap at ~6km and have all 8 PBC firing at it. And they never miss. M1, M2, M2+.. they all melt away with little resistance. The small frame makes dodging most cap. guns at long range a breeze. On top you can park 20 marines with boarding pods for big capitals farming. My favourite toy in FL.

[cheef.che]

I'm gonna jump on the Carrack bandwagon and praise it even more.
It's a beast in player hands. 8xPBC on the broadsides may be misleading as they can cover the top too at mid/long range. It's quite easy to circle an enemy cap at ~6km and have all 8 PBC firing at it. And they never miss. M1, M2, M2+.. they all melt away with little resistance. The small frame makes dodging most cap. guns at long range a breeze. On top you can park 20 marines with boarding pods for big capitals farming. My favourite toy in FL.

I don't think you much do with PBC against capitals. Taking in mind that you should always take exact position to use all broadsides, which might be painfull while dodging. In comparing with Tiger, which has 4Gj shields (50% more then Carrack) and 8xIBL on cockpit + 4xIBL broadsides and arrow-like design (easy to dodge and fire at the same time).

[cheef.che]

Shrike/Tern/Agamemnon -> well balanced ships but they shine with pandora tunnings although some have bad main battery placement

no sure what you mean by "well balancing" here. Tern have 8Gj shields like "junior M2" and the rest has 6Gj. I would say they all are in top of M7 shielding and it makes them perfect for sustain incoming damage, they are balanced to defence more then others.

[-XeNoN-]

Shrike/Tern/Agamemnon -> well balanced ships but they shine with pandora tunnings although some have bad main battery placement

no sure what you mean by "well balancing" here. Tern have 8Gj shields like "junior M2" and the rest has 6Gj. I would say they all are in top of M7 shielding and it makes them perfect for sustain incoming damage, they are balanced to defence more then others.

You just answered it yourself

[-XeNoN-]

I'm gonna jump on the Carrack bandwagon and praise it even more.
It's a beast in player hands. 8xPBC on the broadsides may be misleading as they can cover the top too at mid/long range. It's quite easy to circle an enemy cap at ~6km and have all 8 PBC firing at it. And they never miss. M1, M2, M2+.. they all melt away with little resistance. The small frame makes dodging most cap. guns at long range a breeze. On top you can park 20 marines with boarding pods for big capitals farming. My favourite toy in FL.

I don't think you much do with PBC against capitals. Taking in mind that you should always take exact position to use all broadsides, which might be painfull while dodging. In comparing with Tiger, which has 4Gj shields (50% more then Carrack) and 8xIBL on cockpit + 4xIBL broadsides and arrow-like design (easy to dodge and fire at the same time).

Srry m8 but carrack with full pbc loadout has higher dps than tiger with ibl's

[Klord]

no sure what you mean by "well balancing" here. Tern have 8Gj shields like "junior M2" and the rest has 6Gj. I would say they all are in top of M7 shielding and it makes them perfect for sustain incoming damage, they are balanced to defence more then others.

I wouldn't call that they are all same though. Agamemnon has much higher shield recharge rate & considerably bigger weapon energy and regen compared to both Shrike and Tern. Aggy is both offensively and defensively on top of other M7s.



By the way, didn't notice that PX can mount FBC which was quite a surprise. I so want to cap one !!!

[dony93]

Just no. IBLs have double the shield DPS and just a little bit less hull damage compared to PBCs, while Gauss deals 70% more damage on hulls and double against shields. A Tiger with 12 IBLs and (especially) a Tern with 8 IBLs and 4 GCs deal A TON more damage than a Carrack.

[Klord]

Just no. IBLs have double the shield DPS and just a little bit less hull damage compared to PBCs, while Gauss deals 70% more damage on hulls and double against shields. A Tiger with 12 IBLs and (especially) a Tern with 8 IBLs and 4 GCs deal A TON more damage than a Carrack.

You are missing a point here brother. Beam weapons are highly accurate and almost never miss against larger ships. So those turrets will deal shit load of "constant" damage than IBLs which has very slow projectiles and often unreliable on AI controlled turrets. My Aggy with 8 TBC + 4 IBL deals way more damage than 12 IBLs. On top of that, they can kill smaller fighters as well, which is something IBL can do only once in a blue moon.

[dony93]

Against capital ships I have nearly a 100% hit rate: just use the semi auto aim and you'll almost never miss, they are big and slow. I don't bother about fighters, Flaks exist for this reason.

[Klord]

Problem is Turrets. IBL on turrets are very unreliable. I personally prefer Tern as a player M7 against capitals. 8 IBL and 4 GC is a killer combo with 8 GJ of shielding. However, Agamemnon is my favorite ship to fly around in Xenon sectors. All around versatile ship, but not the best capital killer though.

I also added a poll.

[dony93]

Turrets are much less effective, I agree. Gauss Cannons, however, have a better firing rate and projectile speed, so they are pretty good on turrets too.

[Hwitvlf]

Agamemnon has much higher shield recharge rate & considerably bigger weapon energy and regen compared to both Shrike and Tern. Aggy is both offensively and defensively on top of other M7s.

I agree. Weapon generator strength is king. Any M6 or M7 can kill a single capital, but in sustained combat, generator strength always wins.

Shields are largely worthless, as weapons cut them very quickly- 8 PBEs can break a capital's shields in less than 1 minute. Steering and weapon range are far more important so that you can dodge incoming.

I think Plasma Beam Cannons deal multiple hits per burst - like the Plasma Burst Generator so the DPS listed may not be accurate when in-system. I have not tried them in FL, but in AP, they cut through hulls very quickly, had the range to avoid return fire, and made the ship immune to missiles.

My vote is for Carrack as long as you're very careful to stay out of range, or Agamemnon if you don't want to be that careful. The Teladi ships get the job done, but have weaker generators, may run out of ammo, and aren't as good at dodging incoming.

[-XeNoN-]

Just no. IBLs have double the shield DPS and just a little bit less hull damage compared to PBCs, while Gauss deals 70% more damage on hulls and double against shields. A Tiger with 12 IBLs and (especially) a Tern with 8 IBLs and 4 GCs deal A TON more damage than a Carrack.

Have you actually tried it??
PBC has around 100 rds/min and Carrack's turrets overlap, you do more damage
I never said that Tiger is bad but in FL Carrack is better because it gives way more than a Tiger or other M7's

EDIT: To add, vanilla anti capital weapons like ppc and similar have very poor rotation speed and they often miss especially on turrets which can be edited in TLaser file to improve it but you get modified tag, so if i would choose always go for beam in vanilla, and tbh turret commands are mediocre in vanilla also

[Midnightknight]

Gauss never miss a capital ship, cause it's range is slightly shorter and projectile speed a bit above, on a big target, you can't miss, especially against an AI ship that don't know how to strafe. If you miss or your turrets miss anything bigger than a carrack with your gauss, you are doing something really wrong.

IBLs in sector have an effect that isn't displayed on Rogueys website but was discussed in the answers for the weapons on the AP site. Each time an IBL hit, it impairs the ship with a DoT that rise a bit it's damages. Of course it do not cumulate, so the impact is huge when you have a few IBL (Or you put a single IBL in a battery of PPC) and barely noticeable when you have 8 IBLs or more. But this gives another slight advantage to IBL.

Plasma Beam Canon and Carrack are fun to play and PBC might be actually the best weapon in game, but even with 8 you do not deal so many damages and with your Carrack, you have no issues dealing with most of other M7, but it's a lot different with M2 and especially M2+. Good luck killing a Pteranodon with your 8 PBC, while on the other hand, he will melt your poor 2GB shields in a few seconds especially with PALCs that are the worst beam weapon available. But no need to be good to melt 2GB. Astreus, Akurei, Cerberus, all have also PBC mounted on the side, half as much as the Carrack, but once again with decent shields in return and be a huge issue. I love the Carrack, this ship is awesome, but no, it's not an S capital killer because it lacks the firepower to be a glass canon, and it do not have correct shields to engage most of the other M7. So yes to kill M6 and below it's a beast, maybe the best ship in sector. For the rest, you need to be extremely careful what kind of weapons are fitted on your opponents. And fun fact, even a bunch of laser towers can be a real problem for the Carrack even a Mammoth if it have PBC can do you heavy damages before you deal with it, that's silly, and it's the only M7 with this issue (Maybe the Yaki one too)

IS the rule with M7 is ammo weapons, cause M7 have all an issue with laser regen (1800 at best for agamemnon). You can do the math and say the Agamemnon do the most damages and that's true, it's the most powerful and dangerous, but it cannot sustain firing for a long time. On the other hand, ships like Shrike or Tern can fire almost forever with their ammo based weapons, Gauss, Energy Bolts, no issue, you have an huge cargo to store many of them and ecells if things go bad. No M7 could punch through the 6GB or a Shrike and even less the 8GB of the Tern without emptying completely their reserve, and then only a few of those guns can fire. A CIG cost 307 j/s, PBC 336, IBL 478, so an Aga can maintain 4 IBL shooting once depleted and not fully, the carrack only 4 PBC and nothing else while the tern can continue to shot with 4 Gauss and 8 EBC forever until complete destruction of the target and is the only M7 that can burst like an M2 and maintain a comparable DPS after the initial burst.

[Drone_101]

I've played with almost all of the M7s in the game, I think the 'best' answer will depend on your play style. Are you planning on personally flying the M7 or using one as a backup while you fly something smaller and quicker yourself?

Personally for a player piloted M7 I enjoy the Agamemnon the most - the combination of weapons, shields, speed and manoeuvrability with a decent weapon reactor make it unmatched as a player piloted M7. You do have to learn the 'strafe-and-roll' dodge which is slightly unwieldy due to the Aggy's wide front profile when evading incoming fire, and you are totally dependant on your turret controlled IBLs for most of your damage but as a complete package it's great fun to fly and 12 forward facing IBLs are no joke even if no M7 has a big enough reactor to do them all justice at once.

However if I'm flying an M6 and calling in an AI controlled M7 for some anti-cap support I think the Tern is unbeatable in the M7 class. Gauss cannons fix the main problem M7s have when trading blows with the larger M2s. The M7s smaller weapon reactor and fewer weapon hard points often leave them outgunned when fighting M2s but gauss cannons are relatively energy light and pack a serious punch. Throw in the Tern's additional shielding giving you enough of a buffer to have to stress less about the AI flying straight into every shot fired at it and you're onto a winning mix. One thing to remember though is that the Tern has a slow shield recharge rate compared to other M7s, somewhat balancing the 8 GJs it bears but so long as you're mindful of it and careful to give the shields some down time between engagements it's not a worry.

Other notable M7 mentions would be the Cerberus as a flak platform for a dedicated Anti-fighter M7 and the Astraeus as a fun 'can do everything decently but master of none' alternative to the Tern if you really can't stand the slow speed that the Tern moves at. It can house GC's on the sides and Plasma Beam Cannons in the top and bottom turrets if you want to go specialist anti-cap while still having a hanger bay. In the end my vote goes to an AI controlled Tern while I pilot one of the unique M6s. Shields, gauss cannons and cargo capacity decided it for me, but I can respect other people's opinions if they have other priorities.

[Klord]

I've played with almost all of the M7s in the game, I think the 'best' answer will depend on your play style. Are you planning on personally flying the M7 or using one as a backup while you fly something smaller and quicker yourself?

Personally for a player piloted M7 I enjoy the Agamemnon the most - the combination of weapons, shields, speed and manoeuvrability with a decent weapon reactor make it unmatched as a player piloted M7. You do have to learn the 'strafe-and-roll' dodge which is slightly unwieldy due to the Aggy's wide front profile when evading incoming fire, and you are totally dependant on your turret controlled IBLs for most of your damage but as a complete package it's great fun to fly and 12 forward facing IBLs are no joke even if no M7 has a big enough reactor to do them all justice at once.

However if I'm flying an M6 and calling in an AI controlled M7 for some anti-cap support I think the Tern is unbeatable in the M7 class. Gauss cannons fix the main problem M7s have when trading blows with the larger M2s. The M7s smaller weapon reactor and fewer weapon hard points often leave them outgunned when fighting M2s but gauss cannons are relatively energy light and pack a serious punch. Throw in the Tern's additional shielding giving you enough of a buffer to have to stress less about the AI flying straight into every shot fired at it and you're onto a winning mix. One thing to remember though is that the Tern has a slow shield recharge rate compared to other M7s, somewhat balancing the 8 GJs it bears but so long as you're mindful of it and careful to give the shields some down time between engagements it's not a worry.

Other notable M7 mentions would be the Cerberus as a flak platform for a dedicated Anti-fighter M7 and the Astraeus as a fun 'can do everything decently but master of none' alternative to the Tern if you really can't stand the slow speed that the Tern moves at. It can house GC's on the sides and Plasma Beam Cannons in the top and bottom turrets if you want to go specialist anti-cap while still having a hanger bay. In the end my vote goes to an AI controlled Tern while I pilot one of the unique M6s. Shields, gauss cannons and cargo capacity decided it for me, but I can respect other people's opinions if they have other priorities.

I have a different approach for aforementioned scenarios.

If Im flying the ship myself, I go for Tern as I can control the main battery with 8 IBL. AI controlled turrets often miss specially slow moving projectile weapons.

If Im calling for help while fighting in an M6, I call for the Aggy. Its left and right turrets are armed with Tri beam cannon which rarely misses and pretty good against smaller fighters as well.

For a flak frigate, I prefer Griffon over Cerberus because Cerberus is too big IMO. Griffon smaller profile allows it to dodge incoming fire and keep killing those pesky fighters. But its just my personal opinion. Cerberus got more guns, shielding and weapon energy to sustain flak weapons for a longer period.

[dony93]

The Cerberus is just formidable against fighters. It has been buffed both in AP and FL and now it has very good shielding, can mount many many Flaks and its laser generator is the best (2.200 MW of recharge!). I don't think you'll ever have a fight against enough fighters to kill a Cerberus.

The Griffon is very good too, especially because of its size, and you don't have to worry about it crashing on a station or an asteroid it's also faster.