Reintroduce jump drive via optional storyline?

[al_dude]

So, you accept Elite dangerous the way it is but do not accept X4 the way it is.

[Genoscythe]

So, you accept Elite dangerous the way it is but do not accept X4 the way it is.

I accept E:D because it is that, way, pretends to be nothing else, and always was that way. X4 is another story, it does not strive to be scientifically accurate. That being said, jumpdrives are very real in Elite.

[al_dude]

I have only 100 hours in Elite dangerous.

After taking 2 and half hours for a single hauling job, that is making around 50 jumps from one point to another, I told myself what the F I was doing.

So, I quit that game.

Jumping in Elite costs, what, 300 million?

[Genoscythe]

I have only 100 hours in Elite dangerous.

After taking 2 and half hours for a single hauling job, that is making around 50 jumps from one point to another, I told myself what the F I was doing.

So, I quit that game.

Jumping in Elite costs, what, 300 million?

You were doing something monumentally wrong, then. Frameshift prettym uch let's you jump to a number of sectorsi n your jump range, which varies depending on ship and setup. In E:D travel time is less constituted by in-sector travel, but by sector-to-sector jumping if I had to describe it in X terms. Distance is also an element there, yet in a completely different way comparing two games so completely different in their whole design philosophy (Single vs. Multiplayer, economy...) wouldn't bring us anywhere and be simply derailing, though. So I think we can agree that we disagree

[al_dude]

I tried to like it, man. I liked the graphics, the ability to customize the avatar, and online mode (which to be honest got me killed only), and etc.

But doing anything in that game takes way, way, too long. And the combat is brutal. There had been more than few cases where I managed to defeat my opponents but I died anyway due to my canopy being broken.

And the real jump requires a carrier. The fuel cost is in hundreds of millions. Elite dangerous is not a game. It's a virtual job.

[Genoscythe]

I tried to like it, man. I liked the graphics, the ability to customize the avatar, and online mode (which to be honest got me killed only), and etc.

But doing anything in that game takes way, way, too long. And the combat is brutal. There had been more than few cases where I managed to defeat my opponents but I died anyway due to my canopy being broken.

And the real jump requires a carrier. The fuel cost is in hundreds of millions. Elite dangerous is not a game. It's a virtual job.

Hit me with a friend request and I can show you some things, I can't imagine sb who got over the X entry curve won't do it in elite You're predestined to be a CMDR! Also carrier jump is way slower than jumping with a properly fitted ship and definitely not in the hundreds of millions

[al_dude]

Thanks for the offer but I am done with the game for the time being. With CoH, I am playing X4 for the foreseeable future.

Elite has got its own major DLC coming along, so I may give it a shot again.

[JoeVN09]

Elite may have the frameshift drive, but that game doesn't have jump gates.

The way I see it is that X4 has been designed, from early on, not to have jumpdrives in it. That's reflected in sector sizes, spacing, highways, ship cruising and travel drive speeds, economic AI, combat doctrines, station placements, the very shape of the universe; all of it. Depending on whether you let the AI have it, adding a jumpdrive would be either (a) a 'cheat' item that lets you bypass many of the deliberate limitations of the game, or (b) a game changer that throws all the painstakingly-balanced aspects of it into a blender, crashes the economy, breaks the war system and is oblivious to many other meaningful elements. I'm not saying the game is perfect as it is or that having to travel conventionally doesn't present obstacles, just that it's not something you can tack on and hope it will work seamlessly.

I think Egsoft have found the sweet spot. X3's universe was big and labyrinthine enough that the jumpdrive was an essential tool, but it still took away opportunities for interesting strategic gameplay, like dynamic war fronts and economic development, that X4 now enjoys. It would have taken an average ship hours to get across the old universe, even on SETA. Nowadays an average ship could probably get from Scale Plate Green to Oort Cloud in about fifteen minutes. That's a reasonable enough timeframe to make the deployment of your assets an important consideration without it being a total drag that needs artificial help -- which is what the jumpdrive is.

[jlehtone]

A transit has from and to.
A Gate link has specific from point and exactly one to point.
JumpDrive can move from anywhere and to multiple points (that have varying "fuel cost").
In X games the to points are Gates (or Beacons).
In Elite (the original) the to point was random, far from station in the destination system.
In Stargate one could "dial" any to Gate (only intergalactic jumps had special fuel cost).

What if a Gate would allow selecting destination Gate rather than ships having a "jump device"?
The result is almost same, except that the from points are discreet.

[dtpsprt]

Let's face it... the people arguing can be put in two categories:

First we have the managers. People loving growing empires, spend hours on end watching their handiwork and their planning come to fruition. To these people the Jumpdrive is an anathema because it ads an element (ever so small but it exists) of unpredictability.

On the other side we have all the pilots... whether they are combat pilots, haulers, miners or just "tourists" who enjoy the ride and the scenery. For them the Jumpdrive is (almost) a must...

One post above clearly and truly stated that X4 was made with the lack of Jumpdrive in mind... that is correct...

In the end each and every one of us have to think deeply if the course Egosoft has taken (different than that of the X Universe so far) is for him/her. My greatest complain is that Egosoft was not clear from the beginning. If they asked me for £700 to help them in their project development (this is the cost of X4 and the computer I had to buy so that I could play it) telling me what they wanted to do and how, I would have given it gladly and not even buy the title just for the thousands of wonderful hours their previous games gave me...

[Karvat]

Reintroducing the JumpDrive in this game would the last line of destruction after the ring of Highways.
No.

[Y-llian]

In the end each and every one of us have to think deeply if the course Egosoft has taken (different than that of the X Universe so far) is for him/her. My greatest complain is that Egosoft was not clear from the beginning. If they asked me for £700 to help them in their project development (this is the cost of X4 and the computer I had to buy so that I could play it) telling me what they wanted to do and how, I would have given it gladly and not even buy the title just for the thousands of wonderful hours their previous games gave me...

In fairness to Ego, they we’re pretty open that the lack of jump drives were a deliberate design choice quite early on. I bought the game fully aware of it.

I was skeptical when I first heard that jump drives won’t be a thing but have come to realise it was the right choice for this iteration of the series. Just my few cents... I understand that there’s divergent views though...

[Raptor34]

The reintroduction of the jump drive would remove depth. What's the point of a friendly outpost deep inside Xenon territory if you can just jump there? With a jump drive the Xenon could decide to conquer Path To Profit, what effect could this have on the economy? Egosoft would have to keep both options in mind?

I do not want Egosoft to waste precious dev time on a feature that removes depth! Voted "I don't want people who want the jump drive back to be happy." because it is closes to my personal opinion.

This reminds me of JDs used to need energy cells. And packing a Jump Drive in some ways decreases combat capability because you need to pack the ECs to jump.
So considering that we no longer need normal cargo space to pack missiles, or shields or everything else. Why not introduce a new aux slot, we can put stuff in it to further customize our ships, and putting JDs in also comes with decrease in combat capability, slower speed, weaker shields, faster overheating, less damage. Say it interferes with power systems or need to draw more power or something.
That way there is now a downside to packing Jump Drives, and you need to choose between strategic mobility and tactical advantages.
Oh and obviously bring back Jump Beacons too.

[Jeraal]

Restrict it to L and XL ships.

Requires fuel(Nividium or Nividium based compound?).

Can only be used once every "X time period".

Secondary cool down after use for ships to recover(strain on the systems, or treat it like an EMP blast where systems had to be shut down before jumping to avoid damage and then restarted afterwards). This will keep them from being immediately useful, and you would be hesitant to jump them anywhere there is a threat in the immediate vicinity.

No jump beacons, they have to lock onto a gate.

[grapedog]

When they developed travel drive, my desire for jumpdrives and seta instantly vanished. I love not having to use SETA or jumpdrives. Both always felt like hollow cheats to me to get around gameplay design elements.

[paraskous]

No

[Slashman]

Yeah...no. Let it rest. There will be no jump drives no matter how good a reason you think you have for reintroducing them.

The game was not designed with them in mind.

[MHDriver]

I use a mod for a jump drive but that only applies to my ship obviously. NPC while doing better with the gate teleportation points are still having difficulties at some gates such as the superhighway in particular in several of my long running saves where the ship traffic is substantial. Clearly the gates systems still needs design improvement to allow for smooth game play in highly developed saves. I like the system used in XR with the jump beacons and never experience my ships getting bottlenecked in that game but I certainly wouldn't want NPC ships just randomly jumping into any sector either.

At any rate it sounds like this subject is moot in the view of the developer so it is good that we have mods.

[Slashman]

On the other side we have all the pilots... whether they are combat pilots, haulers, miners or just "tourists" who enjoy the ride and the scenery. For them the Jumpdrive is (almost) a must...

Except that this is not true. I am to some degree all of those things. Certainly not a huge empire builder or trade empire ruler and I don't desire to have jump drives.

[dtpsprt]

On the other side we have all the pilots... whether they are combat pilots, haulers, miners or just "tourists" who enjoy the ride and the scenery. For them the Jumpdrive is (almost) a must...

Except that this is not true. I am to some degree all of those things. Certainly not a huge empire builder or trade empire ruler and I don't desire to have jump drives.

As true as generalisations can be. Definitely one person can not fit 100% on any statistical group, or else there would have been couples with 1.7 children for example(!!!). Then there is this "(almost)"...
Like you said you are a bit of both... this may apply to the majority of X4 users but surely there is a personal tendency to either side for each and every one of us.
Another thing you, me and all the others in this forum must never forget is that the people here are just a small minority of the players... and the number of VRO subscribers for example (not my liking btw) tells a story...