Skill and training Feedback

[Alan Phipps]

" ... so many option could make many happy." - except for the devs.

[Matthew94]

Wait a minute. CBJ said that money should not be the solution to this problem and their first solution is... to let you pay massive amounts of cash for pilots? What?

Is the actual leveling system fixed?

[radcapricorn]

This looks like a compromise. "Here, you can spend your millions on them if you so wish, but you'll have to leg it".

[Raevyan]

I do hope they also fix the exp gains because right now only combat tasks increase the pilot rating. Tasks like trading or mining only increase management which is not considered for average skill of a pilot for adv automine, distribute wares and auto trade...

[radcapricorn]

That's not true. Mining and trading does increase Piloting as well. Just vewy-vewy slowly and seemingly without pattern.

[LameFox]

I hope it's not intended as a compromise on that, it's an improvement on acquiring them in the first place but does nothing to solve training the ones we have (before we start a new playthru or die of old age). You could probably conquer the universe in vanilla before your first miner made it to 5.

[StoneLegionYT]

1 day 21 hours no Seta. I'm sitting here with 0 level 3 Pilots. I did not start auto mining, etc till a bit later... But still am I supposed to and be forced to using seta?

I give up trading and many things tbh. The game starting to get a bit boring, I'm burning out and honestly it's all because darn pilots. I thought I be happy with the new changes but not a fan of running around paying tons for pilots. I just wish the RPG experience was a bit better at leveling.

[Ranix]

I've been playing for 80 hours and I have many ships and many pilots. I even have a capital ship with a full 3-star service crew that's been defending a gate against waves of Xenon and Argons passing through or attacking (Family Zin north gate) and the captain is stuck at 2 stars. I have had sector miners mining for over 60 hours and none of them is over 2 stars. I have two L size freighters doing manual trade runs of hull parts and engine parts and the captains are less than 2 stars. I have three M size freighters doing the same for a wharf and their captains are less than 2 stars. All the freighters have over 50 trade runs each. My frigate that I fly all the time has a 2-star captain even though I fly it constantly. The fighters I use both have 2 star captains even though I fly them routinely and fight in them often.

This has to be a bug unless the piloting seminars are some kind of sick joke. It was possible to train pilots in 1.0 on release day and now there's a hard cap at 2 stars and you can only get there by using the training seminars? WTF?

[radcapricorn]

Yup, sector miners don't seem to advance past 2 Piloting, nor do Distrubute Wares traders. Auto-traders (manually pumped up to 3 stars with seminars) do seem to get up to 3.5 stars. So far I've only had one Explorer who managed to self-train to 3 stars in Piloting. He was sitting firmly on 2 for hours, then suddenly within one play session went past 3.

[LameFox]

You've gotta be kidding me, the guys who unlock their next mining skill at 3 never get past 2?

[Raevyan]

The beta change feels more like a band aid fix so that they may come up with a better solution at some point. I don’t think they changed their mind on just spending money to get skilled crew within a few days and a 17 page long thread. Let’s hope that the next iteration of crew leveling is better and actually makes sense

Until then I am happy to another useful money sink.

[Shehriazad]

So you can get lvl 2 with no real investment .

You can buy nearly lvl 5 pilots now for like 200 million credits

Missions award seminars to push pilots to lvl 3.

Getting a 3 star pilot to get started on automining should be very achievable for people that put in some work...the old solution of buying 100 cheap ships just to get a good pilot was bullcrap , anyway.

Some methods of training actually work pretty well now...I think I am good with this now.
My sector miners went from lvl 2 to 3 pretty fast as well.

I get that they want lvl 5 to be rare and hard to get...but since you get to straight up buy some for super ridiculous prices should be a good fix for people later down the line that need to supplement their crew.

[kroobzh]

You can buy nearly lvl 5 pilots now for like 200 million credits

they are not hired, they are simply quest givers. And after completing the quest they will disappear

Moreover, they have weird pricing

https://i.ibb.co/5vLp418/CFKv-FJLsh-P4.jpg

[radcapricorn]

they are not hired, they are simply quest givers. And after completing the quest they will disappear

The one that you're showing is indeed a quest giver and can't be hired. Other people can be, now (in 3.10 Beta).

[StoneLegionYT]

So you can get lvl 2 with no real investment .

You can buy nearly lvl 5 pilots now for like 200 million credits

Missions award seminars to push pilots to lvl 3.

Getting a 3 star pilot to get started on automining should be very achievable for people that put in some work...the old solution of buying 100 cheap ships just to get a good pilot was bullcrap , anyway.

Some methods of training actually work pretty well now...I think I am good with this now.
My sector miners went from lvl 2 to 3 pretty fast as well.

I get that they want lvl 5 to be rare and hard to get...but since you get to straight up buy some for super ridiculous prices should be a good fix for people later down the line that need to supplement their crew.

How did Sector Miners go from 2 to 3 fast? I have like 10+ hours if not more and mines not level 3 yet. Of course no SETA.

[Bubonosaure]

I really wish crew leveling would be done through stations with special modules and requirements. Here's an idea that would actually fit the X4 theme.

- You can build Academy modules I through V. They offer seminars to raise the pilot 1 level. Each seminar cost money and food and a certain amount of time. Special modules could be further constructed to improve the time needed for formation such as : bars, lounge, or whatever you want really etc... needing additional ressources (could be space weed ? Maja dust for cracked out pilots ? ).

- Novice crew can be directly trained by Acamedy I module, drawing from the station's workforce, and then further improved by other modules or pilots could be affected to the academy modules after docking at the station.

- You can buy seminars just like you remotely buy ships from wharfs.

- Pilots can also level normally though it is harder and more dangerous.

Now, that's an example but what's important is that the crew mechanics needs to be integrated into the ressource system and at a macro scale. Creating artificial mechanics like "you're worth 15 billions credits but you should wander on this random Chelt factory to find proper pilots" doesn't feel thematic at all. I know this would be additional dev time BUT it is actual gameplay that adds to the experience of managing an empire and building yourself up as well as adding many ressource sinks for the player.

One point I'd like to emphasize is that if you can't come up with a fully fleshed out mechanic that can provide interesting avenues for the players, then maybe it is not worth it and, for now, the level system is really not satisfactory. There's a reason autoleveling was one of the most populars and an actual mandatory mod in X:Rebirth and why its X4 successor is so popular.

I'm really trying to be helpful so I hope you don't take this the wrong way.

[dtpsprt]

If a change to gameplay is non-invasive, those who don't wish to use that element of the game do have the option to ignore it. I appreciate not everyone wants to do the same thing, but that's why it's a sandbox. - Adding a new tool that can be grasped and used, or forever left in the potting shed is a good thing. - I get that people who'd like it tweaking need to have their say, and make suggestions, but I'm sure someone cursed its existence a little earlier. - Maybe I misread; it is early and I am older than I've ever been.

I totally agree... Nevertheless all these changes to crew skill, since v2.60 at least are not just invasive INHO, they constitute rape(!!!) not to say rip off from Egosoft to all their customers. Now I'm playing Beta 3.10 you can find pilots above 1 star (just) and then when you try to pick up some personnel to train for pilots etc, you usually find 2+ stars Engineers for 1 million(!!!) that don't have even a third of a star in piloting. Does this make any sense?

[LameFox]

So you can get lvl 2 with no real investment .

You can buy nearly lvl 5 pilots now for like 200 million credits

Missions award seminars to push pilots to lvl 3.

Getting a 3 star pilot to get started on automining should be very achievable for people that put in some work...the old solution of buying 100 cheap ships just to get a good pilot was bullcrap , anyway.

Some methods of training actually work pretty well now...I think I am good with this now.
My sector miners went from lvl 2 to 3 pretty fast as well.

I get that they want lvl 5 to be rare and hard to get...but since you get to straight up buy some for super ridiculous prices should be a good fix for people later down the line that need to supplement their crew.

How did Sector Miners go from 2 to 3 fast? I have like 10+ hours if not more and mines not level 3 yet. Of course no SETA.

I've had this save going for 1.5 cumulative days (about 5 days IRL) and the first miner I bought in the first couple hours is at almost 1.5 stars. So if I play this save for what, two weeks*, and assuming they aren't getting capped as some have suggested, I might have trained a miner to go to more than one sector? LOL. They must think this game is my day job or something.

I've already got multiple capital ships in this time, most Argon building and turret/shield BPs, and am making a mining station with a pair of each solids refinery to assign them to because managers actually seem to learn and then (I think) the ships won't rely on their captain's skills anymore. Somehow all of that is faster than them learning to use gates when they mine.

* and that's assuming the pilot started with zero.

[GCU Grey Area]

I've had this save going for 1.5 cumulative days...

I've already got multiple capital ships in this time, most Argon building and turret/shield BPs...

So you've got all that stuff in a very short amount of time & are still complaining that your miners aren't effective enough?
Judging by results (i.e. all that stuff) seems to me they've been doing fine, even with the limitations imposed by low skill level.

[Mackan]

Auto miners are extremely unlikely to level past 2 stars in vanilla. ~0.1% chance.

With how leveling currently is, auto miners and auto traders aren't feasible. The best alternative is to build trade stations with miner/trader subordinates as managers can still level up and miner/trader range is based on their manager's skill.