thanks Egosoft for the X Series and Bye

[Duncan-Smith]

Trade ,Build, fight, think ; I have always loved all the X Series games and I have faithfully followed and bought all of them, but I truly must part ways now due to frustration. I have started X4 about 6 times refined tactics my last attempt being by far the best, but the results are always the same. Only 1 day in and five hours, I have SETA but your game from almost the 1 day threshold should be called fight, fight, fight, fight. Now I
know some love pirating, conquering but that has never nor will ever be my play style which is why after another 1.5 hrs dogfight in two systems last night with two separate fleets and 2 defence stations (one being built the other almost completed) Hatikvahs Choice leaves no choice at all, if you want a balanced game (where the Teladi and Argon still exist and can function). I hang up my hat, and thank you for the ride but I'm not waiting for the expansion. I will keep my eye on news IF you ever restore balance I may return but until then aurevoir. Thanks but no thanks

[dholmstr]

Why did you fight so much? And why start 6 times over? Any reason for that? Is this 3.0 Beta?

[Gavrushka]

Ah, I think that was a temporary swansong post, Dholmstr. - I must admit I did struggle a bit at beta 6 when the Xenon were steamrollering through sectors, and I was obliged to fight constantly for a few days to utterly and completely destroy them. - I've never had much in the way of issues with pirates, other than losing a ship every game day or two, or several in a few hours when a pirate capital class ship started spamming, but I've the means to respond. - If you don't and you're losing assets, or simply spending hours trying to tread water against an overpowering enemy, it can be irksome.

I'm wondering if we should have a save repository categorised according the kind of game people might want to play. - I sure could offer a 'Trade' game, with the military wherewithal to take on entire factions if the desire grabbed a player. A few people have mentioned about the game now quite working the way they'd like, but perhaps advanced game saves can perhaps players such an opportunity. - It's just a thought...

[Matthew94]

Are you saying it's too hard or you don't like the combat-focus of the game?

[birdtable]

I think it is mainly the imbalances/hiccups within the game (granted beta testing) ... I have just completed a most tedious 20 min mission patrolling The Void, nothing.. and at the end of the 20 mins i will never get back the mission faded away no reward no completion of mission .. .nothing. Another is the destruction of certain ships within the game ...Have 3 missions to destroy SCA Buzzards ..Never seen one SCA buzzard yet anywhere plenty of others not one Buzzard. These little frustrations (once again Beta) do have a steamrolling effect... I will admit the sudden "swarm" of Xenon ships has greatly diminished....So Beta testing is working.

[Praefectus classis]

That's why I got the game on GOG and never updated to v2.0 and above. I prefer the weaker Xenon when they are out of their home sectors as it suits my game play. I don't agree with it all kicking off with the aggressive Xenon invasion as soon as a new game starts. In my opinion there should be a certain amount of status quo with more minor skirmishes in the universe. I've said it before but those that want more fighting and aggressive enemies tend to shout the loudest which results in the game getting progressively more biased towards fighting at the expense of trading, etc.

[Buzz2005]

the rolling through the sector and stations has been fixed and the invasions has been toned down, they dont start right away

lots of people have the thinking that stuff in every new beta is the final thing for example with this xenon invasions and buged station defenses

[Matthew94]

I think it is mainly the imbalances/hiccups within the game (granted beta testing) ... I have just completed a most tedious 20 min mission patrolling The Void, nothing.. and at the end of the 20 mins i will never get back the mission faded away no reward no completion of mission .. .nothing. Another is the destruction of certain ships within the game ...Have 3 missions to destroy SCA Buzzards ..Never seen one SCA buzzard yet anywhere plenty of others not one Buzzard. These little frustrations (once again Beta) do have a steamrolling effect... I will admit the sudden "swarm" of Xenon ships has greatly diminished....So Beta testing is working.

Don't bother with the missions. Just go out and shoot people, that's what I did. Because the war is actually happening, you destroying enemy fleets has an actual effect on the war's progression.

[ignis_alas]

k bye

[Duncan-Smith]

really toned down? My game files are completely upto date beta branch. Though one clean restart was totally vanilla with no beta, with the same results. The Xenon chewed through 1 behemoth destroyer & at least 50 Hop Ares heavy fighters with Teladi version three shields and four muon mark two weapons. So if the invasions have been toned down I would hate to see it before what I see now. The reason I started so many times, was as follows, I modded one game to test the invasions, I was "thinking" of ways around the utter destruction of a functioning universe and economy without altering my playstyle. After all we don't all want to be pirates or conquerors. I made mistakes in two of my starts and when the invasion began to critically affect the universe (three K's that stayed together in a triple formation) . After multiple loads trying to kill the k's, and being smashed by one of the other two (I had taken out all escorts) . I realised I needed to apply every trick I had learnt to date as quickly as possible before the Xenon got a serious foothold as in three of my saves. Hence my absolute last attempt where I did better than I had done before with no modding or giving myself money (still a mod). This time the Teladi were on their knees before the Argon so, I took a Behemoth destroyer and ten Ares plus my Nemesis Vanguard to hold them off whilst building a super defence platform capable of (hopefully) melting K's and even I's in a short amount of time. This is how I got the SETA within about 6 hours from starting. Nervously checking Hatikvah's choice I noticed the Xenon were reaching "critical mass", I bankrupted myself ordering another ten Ares and a Behemoth and made haste upto the other side of the universe. Then the 1.5 hr battle for the universe, taking out 1 k (which took out my destroyer and a couple of my heavy fighters) When the dust settled and the constant waves of three P's in tight formation and multiple m's had reduced my fleet to two almost destroyed Ares and my hull at 50%, they were dutifully sent off for repair, whilst l ordered another 7 Ares. My station in Hatikvah's Choice had dock, administration centre and one disk built for facing the next few waves when low and behold another K and invasion fleet that popped through "for a chat". I saved the game quickly. I have backed up my saves so I can screen shot & verify what I'm talking about. We all play games to blow off steam & have some fun. I realised after this battle this was not fun, nor what I signed up for. So build,trade,think,fight certainly not in my game. Of course I can screen shot the dates to prove this was only a few days ago and that what I am saying is not made up. I will of course be checking on the forums for updates the X Series has been one of my absolute favourite games since the first X Game was released.

[Warnoise]

... stuff

OOS balance favours highly the xenon. I think this has been discussed many times by now. Feel free to search the forum and you will see.

Xenon used to be pretty weak, but now they act as they should imo. Currently what make them strong is the abysmal AI of L and m combat ships.

[MHDriver]

Ah, I think that was a temporary swansong post, Dholmstr. - I must admit I did struggle a bit at beta 6 when the Xenon were steamrollering through sectors, and I was obliged to fight constantly for a few days to utterly and completely destroy them. - I've never had much in the way of issues with pirates, other than losing a ship every game day or two, or several in a few hours when a pirate capital class ship started spamming, but I've the means to respond. - If you don't and you're losing assets, or simply spending hours trying to tread water against an overpowering enemy, it can be irksome.

I'm wondering if we should have a save repository categorised according the kind of game people might want to play. - I sure could offer a 'Trade' game, with the military wherewithal to take on entire factions if the desire grabbed a player. A few people have mentioned about the game now quite working the way they'd like, but perhaps advanced game saves can perhaps players such an opportunity. - It's just a thought...

I've looked at some of your save games and I think the one where all the Xenon have been neutralized would be good for the OP to see.. I agree with your suggestion. Your games however are a bit too organized for my taste, my head almost exploded when I looked at your ship naming convention.

[Gavrushka]

Ahaha, in X2, when I wore a younger man's clothes, I had creative names such as 'Evil Ted' and 'The Armpit Monster,' but I don't have the mental bandwidth to keep track any more.

What's wrong with 'AP C.M&SA MedtradeA06,' anyhow?

[Artean]

No doubt Egosoft can't please everyone and fully cater to all play styles. I, for instance, really enjoy the slightly more aggressive universe!

[Rei Ayanami]

If you stay near Xenon zones, of course you'll encounter a lot of combat. If you don't like combat-heavy zones that much then i suggest moving to the center/slight east of the map to the central Teladi and PAR sectors, there is usually rarely any big fights going on there. At least in my game, not sure how it goes in yours.

Perhaps Egosoft adding a game start where the Xenon start out very weak (or are completely absent) would help for those who don't like combat.

[birdtable]

Without disagreeing with any one opinion or agreeing, I do believe the dumbness of the defensive fleets AI has a lot to answer for,, just been in Ianamus zura iv where there are 2 K's + P's laying to waste all trade ships around the Trade Station plus the Trade Station ... and where is the Teladi Fleet ... down by the gate to Bright Promise twirling around ...
Now I don't mind taking my little Elite and taking on the mighty Xenon Fleet but a bit pointless..

[mr.WHO]

The problem is a bit more in how dumb the Teladi and Argon Federation fleet is organized - they have one big fleet with carrier and just small groups here and there.

meanwhile HOP in my game operate several wolfpacks full of destroyers, fighters and M-size ships.
Also I have absolutely no idea what PAR are doing in my game - and odd destroyer here and there, some random fighters and that's all - very strange - their economy and territory seems fine, but their fleet is a mess.
They order a plenty of ships in my shipyards, but where do they end? I must investigate it

[Duncan-Smith]

no I realise but my point was the game is titled, build, think, trade, fight, and I have stayed away from the fights in my first three or four games, I totally ignored them to the universes absolute plunge into destruction. If I had ignored them much more the Xenon would have eventually reached my doorstep wherever I hid. But Egosoft in all titles I have ever played had more balance in them than this. As I said in my original post this is a bfn if things change I will return. But my thirst for crushing AI is absolutely quenched. Thanks for your comments though, it is all taken on board, and I like my naming convention, it's less orderly than to begin with I used to call things HOP-mnr1 etc etc, they are all mnr-1 etc now

[Imperial Good]

This is the total opposite of what X4 was like a few versions ago. To put it in perspective the Xenon are so weak in 2.60 that they are naturally beaten back by HOP and other factions.

I suspect what has happened is a conflict of interest. Many people complained how boring and peaceful the universe was so Egosoft made more fighting. Now people who liked how peaceful the universe was are complaining how annoying the constant fighting is.

Hopefully the Split DLC expands the universe enough that players will be able to find some part that is peaceful if they want.

[IRaven]

I started my playthrough at Beta 3.0
At the beginning i had some rarely attack reports from Trade Ships flying through Hatikvah's Choice II, after some investigation the Xenon set up a Defense Station right next to the Jump Gate and had 2 K's roaming around there.
Lost me a pretty expensive L Freighter (at that point of game) but i was absolutely helpless against anything bigger than an S or P, so there was no point in dying again and again against those K's.

By time the Argon found a way to beat the K's and actually started sending Fleets into the Xenon Sector (without lots of luck yet)

On the other side of the universe HOP already took both Faulty Logic Sectors.

So while i was doing my stuff, working on my HQ Station and getting me some money going i suddenly got an Xenon Invasion Fleet in Companys Regard of 3 K's and an I flying in Formation.
They Took the sector, just a tad later they even took Hera's Twin 2 and now they have been at the Gate for Hera's Twin 1.
After a lot of time they managed to destroy the Trading Station (it got rebuild in Ianamus Zura II) and started pushing further into the sector. The Paranid guys started building stations there as the Teladi guys had no chance against those 4 Capital Ships that went through their L and XL ships like butter. Sometimes there will be 3 - 4 Destroyers from PAR and sometimes they would even manage to destroy a K here and there that strayed too far from the pack, but they kept throwing small numbers against that fleet and never saw any hope in taking back that sector.

So i took some Assemble Fleet mission for Argon Prime and got me a whopping 50 mil credits (only took me like 20-30 mil to assemble that fleet) bought 8 Behemoths from that Money and took my ~20 M and S fighters together with those 8 Destroyers to push back the Xenon and at least take down the 3 K's and the I.

Well guess what, at the time i arrived it was 2 I's and 5 K's, but still managed to win without any losses on my side (take out Pulse Turrets with Pulsar and 6 x Mortar)... just to see 2 K's starting to blast away at the trading station in Ianamus Zura...


I am playing 100% Vanilla, no Mods no Save Game Editing
That "Defense Fleet" took a lot of my empire building money, but i do enjoy myself.

So yes, you are right, the Xenon are kinda strong, but if you dont want to fight, you can at least help the Argon by doing the Argon vs. Xenon Missions.
The Teladi are a lost cause though